# Do Jews Really Expect the Messiah to Come? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 20, 2005, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-jews-really-expect-the-messiah-to-come/327121 "2005-10-20T18:42:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-jews-really-expect-the-messiah-to-come/327121/41 "2005-10-21T13:08:07Z")
> [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > The Messiah will be known because there are several tasks that he must accomplish. By accomplishing the tasks, he will be acknowledged as the messiah. Maimondies (Laws of Kings 11) lists them… But I’m curious what authority Maimonides has here, beyond being exceptionally learned. Is he quoting and summarizing something else, or is this his interpretation? If the latter, what force is his interpretation considered to have among people today? ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-jews-really-expect-the-messiah-to-come/327121/42 "2005-10-21T13:21:17Z")
> [@anyrose](#): > > while we’re on the subject of beliefs perhaps you could answer my question: > > the immaculate conception - I’ve heard two explanations > a) Mary had not known a man’s touch when she bacame pregnant with Jesus (I believe this is the more popular of the two) > or b) Mary herself was the result of a virgin birth, therefore she was without sin and qualified to bring forth the savior > Which is correct? [From this site](http://www.catholic.com/library/Immaculate_Conception_and_Assum.asp) > [@](#): > > It’s important to understand what the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception is and what it is not. Some people think the term refers to Christ’s conception in Mary’s womb without the intervention of a human father; but that is the Virgin Birth. Others think the Immaculate Conception means Mary was conceived “by the power of the Holy Spirit,” in the way Jesus was, but that, too, is incorrect. The Immaculate Conception means that Mary, whose conception was brought about the normal way, was conceived without original sin or its stain—that’s what “immaculate” means: without stain. The essence of original sin consists in the deprivation of sanctifying grace, and its stain is a corrupt nature. Mary was preserved from these defects by God’s grace; from the first instant of her existence she was in the state of sanctifying grace and was free from the corrupt nature original sin brings. > > When discussing the Immaculate Conception, an implicit reference may be found in the angel’s greeting to Mary. The angel Gabriel said, “Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you” (Luke 1:28). The phrase “full of grace” is a translation of the Greek word kecharitomene. It therefore expresses a characteristic quality of Mary. > > The traditional translation, “full of grace,” is better than the one found in many recent versions of the New Testament, which give something along the lines of “highly favored daughter.” Mary was indeed a highly favored daughter of God, but the Greek implies more than that (and it never mentions the word for “daughter”). The grace given to Mary is at once permanent and of a unique kind. Kecharitomene is a perfect passive participle of charitoo, meaning “to fill or endow with grace.” Since this term is in the perfect tense, it indicates that Mary was graced in the past but with continuing effects in the present. So, the grace Mary enjoyed was not a result of the angel’s visit. In fact, Catholics hold, it extended over the whole of her life, from conception onward. She was in a state of sanctifying grace from the first moment of her existence. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-jews-really-expect-the-messiah-to-come/327121/43 "2005-10-21T14:19:52Z")
Sal Ammoniac: > [@](#): > > But I’m curious what authority Maimonides has here, beyond being exceptionally learned. Is he quoting and summarizing something else, or is this his interpretation? He is quoting and summarizing. Of course, there will always be some aspect of subjective interpretation in any form of summarization, but for the most part, all of his statements can be traced to their source in the Talmud (though that’s not always easy, because he was notorious for his lack of footnoting) which can in turn be traced back to the Torah/Tanakh. (Or sometimes it comes directly from the Torah/Tanakh sources. The Talmud doesn’t necessarily repeat stuff it doesn’t feel requires further elaboration.) > [@](#): > > If the latter, what force is his interpretation considered to have among people today? An extremely high amount. As you said, he was very learned. As far as I know, the statements of Maimonides that Zev quoted about the Messiah have not proven to be the subject of any heavy controversy in the Orthodox world. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-jews-really-expect-the-messiah-to-come/327121/44 "2005-10-21T14:25:14Z")
> [@Sal Ammoniac](#): > > But I’m curious what authority Maimonides has here, beyond being exceptionally learned. Is he quoting and summarizing something else, or is this his interpretation? If the latter, what force is his interpretation considered to have among people today? Maimonides is still considered to be extraordinarily authoritative in Judaism. He is to Judaism something akin to what Aristotle was to classical philosophy or St. Augustine to Christianity. His sources consisted not only of the Tanakh but the Mishnas and many other prior Jewish commentaries as well as an applied philosophical method acquired from Aristotle. His work was influential largely because it was extremely systematic, coherent and succinct. Maimondes strove for brevity among other things and that made his work an accessible reference source for answering questions. You might even say that Maimonides was a Medieval Jewish Cecil. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Crandolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7cd45c/32.png) [@Crandolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crandolph)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-jews-really-expect-the-messiah-to-come/327121/45 "2005-10-21T16:10:24Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > You mean, now that you had the attention of Jewish posters on the board? 😉 … and it took one to provide the correct answer! 😃 So Jews have different levels of expectations about the arrival of the Messiah, Christians about the return of Jesus, and Muslims about the [Mahdi](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahdi). Monotheism: one big waiting room! ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-jews-really-expect-the-messiah-to-come/327121/46 "2005-10-21T16:50:14Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > You might even say that Maimonides was a Medieval Jewish Cecil. 🙂 High praise indeed, and I think we can consider the quesetion settled! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-jews-really-expect-the-messiah-to-come/327121.md?page=2)