# Do Joe Biden's Recent Comments On Gun Control Bother You? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 3, 2013, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-joe-bidens-recent-comments-on-gun-control-bother-you/649186 "2013-02-03T04:25:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-joe-bidens-recent-comments-on-gun-control-bother-you/649186/61 "2013-02-04T04:18:55Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It may be worth noting here that [the bill Cuomo signed last month included neither buybacks nor confiscation](http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/15/us/new-york-gun-bill/index.html), and Feinstein was talking about a bill she would have passed had she been able (but wasn’t) in 1995, and also hasn’t passed since. So I AM supposed to disregard what they say, as prominent Democratic leaders. Sorry, but I think I’ll take them on their word as to what they want… ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-joe-bidens-recent-comments-on-gun-control-bother-you/649186/62 "2013-02-04T04:24:59Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > You very clearly misrepresented what she said. > > She didn’t say “every gun” as you clearly claim. > > Again, I’d recommend against using 911 truthers as your sources. > > Beyond that, I do find it hysterical that someone who trusts 911 truthers is accusing me of “babbling”. I said what the context of her quote was in my original post. It was a 60 minutes interview regarding assault weapons. Here is a youtube video of the same interview. Does that somehow make what SHE SAID more believable, as a youtube clip instead of infowars?? [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj4AcjyuV38](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj4AcjyuV38) ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-joe-bidens-recent-comments-on-gun-control-bother-you/649186/63 "2013-02-04T04:26:41Z")
Clearly pkbites and I are trying to make the same point. I’m bowing out. ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-joe-bidens-recent-comments-on-gun-control-bother-you/649186/64 "2013-02-04T04:28:08Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You probably erred, **Ibn Warraq** , by saying “want.” Because it’s easy to claim any politician wants something. When it comes to the legislation they are actually introducing and what they expect to do, there’s no gun confiscation and no forced buybacks. There was none of that in the previous AWB, none in the current proposed AWB, and none in the law Cuomo signed last month. In this case, it’s easy to claim because it’s supported by evidence. The fact that they did not manage to include everything they _wanted_ in their latest bills is not evidence that they don’t want it. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-joe-bidens-recent-comments-on-gun-control-bother-you/649186/65 "2013-02-04T04:29:33Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You probably erred, **Ibn Warraq** , by saying “want.” Because it’s easy to claim any politician wants something. When it comes to the legislation they are actually introducing and what they expect to do, there’s no gun confiscation and no forced buybacks. There was none of that in the previous AWB, none in the current proposed AWB, and none in the law Cuomo signed last month. Point taken. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-joe-bidens-recent-comments-on-gun-control-bother-you/649186/66 "2013-02-04T04:30:21Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > So I AM supposed to disregard what they say, as prominent Democratic leaders. I wouldn’t use the word “supposed.” I would say if you want people to think you’re paying attention and being sensible, you should listen to their words in context. Nearly 20 years ago Feinstein said she would support the confiscation of assault weapons, but she understood it was not going to happen. That was the entire point of her statement. The AWB of the '90s didn’t include anything related to gun confiscation and it’s not part of the current debate. Cuomo said confiscation could be one of many options, but it didn’t happen here either. The law that he did sign is supposed to address some loopholes and improved reporting. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-joe-bidens-recent-comments-on-gun-control-bother-you/649186/67 "2013-02-04T04:31:10Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > I said what the context of her quote was in my original post. It was a 60 minutes interview regarding assault weapons. Here is a youtube video of the same interview. Does that somehow make what SHE SAID more believable, as a youtube clip instead of infowars?? > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj4AcjyuV38](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj4AcjyuV38) Since she doesn’t call for confiscating all guns the answer is “no”. Do you have a source to support your claim that either she or Cuomo are calling for confiscating all guns? ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-joe-bidens-recent-comments-on-gun-control-bother-you/649186/68 "2013-02-04T04:38:51Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Since she doesn’t call for confiscating all guns the answer is “no”. > > Do you have a source to support your claim that either she or Cuomo are calling for confiscating all guns? That is not the claim that I was replying to either. CA3799 stated: > [@](#): > > Wayne LaPierre of the NRA saying ‘You can’t trust the government. \*\*They’re taking your guns away,’ \*\*like he said to Chris Wallace this weekend, is far, far more disturbing because it is not true and is designed to upset and alarm. He/she did not say ALL guns. He said YOUR guns. AW’s are my guns. And even if their legislation today doesn’t include the confiscatory language required to grab as much as a fucking BB gun, both her and Cuomo’s intents are crystal clear. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-joe-bidens-recent-comments-on-gun-control-bother-you/649186/69 "2013-02-04T04:40:44Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I wouldn’t use the word “supposed.” I would say if you want people to think you’re paying attention and being sensible, you should listen to their words in context. Nearly 20 years ago Feinstein said she would support the confiscation of assault weapons, but she understood it was not going to happen. That was the entire point of her statement. The AWB of the '90s didn’t include anything related to gun confiscation and it’s not part of the current debate. Cuomo said confiscation could be one of many options, but it didn’t happen here either. The law that he did sign is supposed to address some loopholes and improved reporting. I’ll bet there were fools that rolled their eyes at Mein Kampf and thought he’d never be in a position of trying to get what he _really_ wanted. Cuomo and Feinstein have already made their wants public. Just because the political will for it isn’t present now doesn’t mean we should let their foot in the door with a watered down version of it. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-joe-bidens-recent-comments-on-gun-control-bother-you/649186/70 "2013-02-04T04:49:26Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I wouldn’t use the word “supposed.” I would say if you want people to think you’re paying attention and being sensible, you should listen to their words in context. Nearly 20 years ago Feinstein said she would support the confiscation of assault weapons, but she understood it was not going to happen. That was the entire point of her statement. The AWB of the '90s didn’t include anything related to gun confiscation and it’s not part of the current debate. Cuomo said confiscation could be one of many options, but it didn’t happen here either. The law that he did sign is supposed to address some loopholes and improved reporting. The quote was her bemoaning the fact that she couldn’t confiscate AWs, and it was made after the AW ban was passed. We know what she wants. She and Cuomo have told us. What they can pass is another matter, but that in no way diminishes her end goal and what she COULD pass if the House and the Senate were configured differently between the D’s and the R’s. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-joe-bidens-recent-comments-on-gun-control-bother-you/649186/71 "2013-02-04T04:55:41Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > I’ll bet there were fools that rolled their eyes at Mein Kampf and thought he’d never be in a position of trying to get what he _really_ wanted. Leaving aside the fact that you just lost the argument via Godwin, you’ve displayed some rather dramatic ignorance of Weimar Germany. That being said, perhaps you can answer a couple of questions. Have you ever actually read Mein Kampf and if so, please tell me what in the statements of Diane Feinstein comes close to the statements in the book by the man who tried to have her grandparents murdered? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-joe-bidens-recent-comments-on-gun-control-bother-you/649186/72 "2013-02-04T05:02:04Z")
> [@DataX](#): > > If banning large capacity magazines is such a useless step - why do people want them? My understanding (perhaps incorrect) was that Gabrielle Giffords shooter was only stopped when he ran out of ammo and was trying to change magazines. In that case, Giffords and other people were actually saved by the fact that the guy was using high-capacity magazines. Loughner fired all 31 bullets in the magazine and was reloading when a woman in the crowd, already wounded, attempted to grab the gun from him. He finally changed the magazine and tried to fire, but the gun jammed. Meanwhile, two men from the crowd grabbed him and subdued him, officials said. Had Loughner been successful in firing the second magazine, “there would have been a huge, greater catastrophe,” Sheriff Dupnik said. The sheriff also said that the toll had climbed to 20, six dead and 14 injured, including the congresswoman. High-capacity magazines, because of the higher strength of the springs etc. have a tendency to jam. If Loughner had normal 10-bullet magazines, he’d swap them quickly, no jams, and keep shooting. Much higher carnage. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-joe-bidens-recent-comments-on-gun-control-bother-you/649186/73 "2013-02-04T05:03:55Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > Furthermore, the UK has pretty draconian gun laws, including a recent total ban on handguns, including confiscation - late 1990s IIRC. By setting this as your standard you are pretty much guaranteeing the US will end up with a similar policy somewhere down the road, since we will likely never approach the UK’s rate of gun violence without something approaching the UK’s gun laws. > > The problem is, you are assigning some special significance to gun violence, as opposed to violent crime in general, and you are not acknowledging that a free society in which gun ownership is permitted has some benefits that may be worth a certain number of deaths per year. Just like we set speed limits at 75 mph even though we would undoubtedly be safer driving at 55. I’m not guaranteeing jack shit. Lessee here, the US all up including with firearms has a murder rate of [4.8 per million](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate). The UK has a murder rate at a quarter of the US level or 1.2 per million. Lest you think I’m cherry picking, go through the list and find another developed Western or Eastern country with anywhere near our murder rate. Go USA! If I look at the % of homicides from firearms, well, sad to say the [US is globally](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence)number 5 at 65% of all murders attributed to firearms, and trails the paradises of Columbia, Slovakia, Guatemala and Zimbabwe. Interestingly enough, the only developed Western country that is even close to the US is that bastion of guns Switzerland. Then trailed by Germany at about 45% of the US rate, and England and Wales (violent confiscation poster child) is only 8% of all murders attributed to firearms (what’s the math there, ~12% of the US rate?). I’ll give you that firearm ownership may be worth something, since I’ve actually lived in fascist and communist police states for 20+ years, but is it worth a firearm murder rate at least double if not 10x a comparable modern developed democratic society? I’m not convinced. 10% higher, maybe… So, net net, the US is hugely more violent and uses firearms to murder a lot more people than any other comparable country. Again, I’m not saying grab all guns. But Christ on a pogo stick if we can’t regulate guns at least as much as we regulate bass fishing much less cars then something is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-joe-bidens-recent-comments-on-gun-control-bother-you/649186/74 "2013-02-04T05:15:32Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > Lest you think I’m cherry picking, go through the list and find another developed Western or Eastern country with anywhere near our murder rate. Is Russia not developed enough for you? South Africa is also usually included in the list of “developed countries”. Other countries that are considered “developed” and have higher homicide rates than US are Lithuania and Estonia. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-joe-bidens-recent-comments-on-gun-control-bother-you/649186/75 "2013-02-04T05:27:02Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Aren’t the penalties strict enough now, and the law-enforcement vigorous enough? That is why we have the world’s largest incarcerated population proportional to the general. No, that’s because we lock up a disproportionately high number of people for drug offenses. If we stopped locking up so many druggies and started treating drug use as a public health issue instead of a criminal justice issue, we could keep truly violent offenders in jail longer. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-joe-bidens-recent-comments-on-gun-control-bother-you/649186/76 "2013-02-04T05:47:44Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Have you ever actually read Mein Kampf and if so, please tell me what in the statements of Diane Feinstein comes close to the statements in the book by the man who tried to have her grandparents murdered? That wasn’t the point of my post. The point is, Marley23’s post is foolish. Just because Feinstein and others can’t get confiscation now doesn’t make their desire for it any less dangerous. Poo-pooing people with dangerous agendas and heckling those who warn of them has historically proven to be catastrophic. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-joe-bidens-recent-comments-on-gun-control-bother-you/649186/77 "2013-02-04T05:53:47Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > That wasn’t the point of my post. Yes it was. Dude, you pulled a Godwin. Just admit it. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-joe-bidens-recent-comments-on-gun-control-bother-you/649186/78 "2013-02-04T05:59:36Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > No, that’s because we lock up a disproportionately high number of people for drug offenses. If we stopped locking up so many druggies and started treating drug use as a public health issue instead of a criminal justice issue, we could keep truly violent offenders in jail longer. Your ignorant about something: many of the so called “drug violators” may be incarcerated for drug offenses, but mainly because said drug offenses violated the conditions of their probation/parole. A very minute’ percentage of the people I’ve arrested for possession did any significant time for the possession in and of itself. Most of those that did time were doing the time based on the original sentence of a previous crime. A guy that got 7 years on a robbery (3 in, 4 on probation) and then is caught with some coke while on probation is going to get some time based on the remaining time on his probation. It doesn’t have to be drugs, it can be alcohol too. So changing drug laws or how they are charged isn’t necessarily going to change what you are talking about here. And it shouldn’t change it, either. A person let out of prison early has to obey the rules set for them or wind up back in prison or the system will become an even bigger joke than it already is. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-joe-bidens-recent-comments-on-gun-control-bother-you/649186/79 "2013-02-04T06:01:03Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Yes it was. > > Dude, you pulled a Godwin. > > Just admit it. I know what the point of my own goddamned post was. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-joe-bidens-recent-comments-on-gun-control-bother-you/649186/80 "2013-02-04T06:13:59Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > I know what the point of my own goddamned post was. I know. It was to compare Feinstein to the people who tried to murder her grandparents. I think it’s safe to say that it didn’t work out the way you imagined. I’d recommend next time using as a source Don Kates rather than a 911 truther. Kates is a moron, but he shows vastly more semblance of being a reasonable person than Alex Jones. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-joe-bidens-recent-comments-on-gun-control-bother-you/649186.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-joe-bidens-recent-comments-on-gun-control-bother-you/649186.md?page=5)