# Do language classes exist where teacher doesn't speak language of the students? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 21, 2002, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-language-classes-exist-where-teacher-doesnt-speak-language-of-the-students/120028 "2002-07-21T00:34:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2002, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-language-classes-exist-where-teacher-doesnt-speak-language-of-the-students/120028/1 "2002-07-21T00:34:25Z")
In this [pit thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=126543) there’s talk of English speakers who speak no Japanese going to Japan to teach English, in a “full immersion” type of class. Does this really work? I suppose the students would already have to speak pretty good English, but then what’s the point of the class? Kind of a final brush-up? Is this really effective? ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2002, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-language-classes-exist-where-teacher-doesnt-speak-language-of-the-students/120028/2 "2002-07-21T00:40:27Z")
When I studied Beginning French (UC Berkeley, class of '88), there was no English spoken in the room at all. The instructors knew English, but the curriculum called for total immersion, and we got along fine. ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2002, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-language-classes-exist-where-teacher-doesnt-speak-language-of-the-students/120028/3 "2002-07-21T00:43:47Z")
When my child was diagnosed with hearing loss we were told that there was an organization in our state (Mass.) that would send a deaf person who knew ASL to our house, for free, to teach us ASL. We declined the kind offer, but I remember hearing from other families who said aside from the first few minutes of the first session, it wasn’t difficult at all. ---
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2002, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-language-classes-exist-where-teacher-doesnt-speak-language-of-the-students/120028/4 "2002-07-21T00:51:07Z")
What I found a bit more astounding in that thread was the implication that the english speaker in question learned Japanese by just being immeresed in Japanese society. Japanese is a tough language for a native english speaker to just “pick up.” ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2002, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-language-classes-exist-where-teacher-doesnt-speak-language-of-the-students/120028/5 "2002-07-21T00:56:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Laughing Lagomorph \* > \*\*When my child was diagnosed with hearing loss we were told that there was an organization in our state (Mass.) that would send a deaf person who knew ASL to our house, for free, to teach us ASL. We declined the kind offer, but I remember hearing from other families who said aside from the first few minutes of the first session, it wasn’t difficult at all. \*\* I’ve taken more than one ASL class like that. (The teachers could write in english - but they almost never did.) ---
**Author:** ![Astroboy14](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Astroboy14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astroboy14)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2002, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-language-classes-exist-where-teacher-doesnt-speak-language-of-the-students/120028/6 "2002-07-21T01:16:36Z")
When I first came to Korea, I spoke not a word of Korean. My classes and I got along just fine… of course there were frequent comfusions, but that’s to be expected. ---
**Author:** ![MrO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/50afbb/32.png) [@MrO](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrO)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2002, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-language-classes-exist-where-teacher-doesnt-speak-language-of-the-students/120028/7 "2002-07-21T01:19:07Z")
When I first went to Japan to teach English, I had no Japanese beyond hello, goodbye, thank you, and excuse me. Same when I first came to Korea. It’s pretty common. Usually, if the teacher stays very long, he or she will learn some of the local language, but it’s actually pretty rare in EFL or ESL classes (English as a Second/Foreign Language) for the teacher to learn the local language better than the students know English. Those who manage to teach English abroad for several years without ever learning more than a few words of the local language are often the butt of jokes, from students and other teachers, but they can be good teachers. They do better in fairly advanced classes, but even in beginner classes, there are ways to communicate without the local language. In some classes I’ve taught, particularly middle school classes, we teachers have been told not to use the local language even if we can. The students have typically studied English for some time from textbooks and non-native English speaking teachers, so they have some basic understanding of grammar and vocabulary, but they are often pretty helpless at actual communication. English, like other languages, is full of idioms and expressions that are almost impossible to learn without the guidance of a native speaker. Sometimes pronunciation is so difficult that a student can’t be understood even if he or she knows English well. In many classes, the teacher’s job is to help the students improve their English, more than to teach new information. To become really proficient in a foreign language, for most folks, is a long hard road. For an absolute beginner class, with students who know zero English, you really need a teacher who speaks the students’ native language. Total immersion in such cases works okay for children, but less well for adults. I’ve heard of adults who were forced into total immersion situations, such as being put in prison in a foreign country. They eventually learn, and some learn faster than others, but it’s not easy. The language acquisition part of the brain seems to harden as we get older, and learning a language naturally becomes tougher. ---
**Author:** ![YiBaiYuan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/f475e1/32.png) [@YiBaiYuan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YiBaiYuan)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2002, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-language-classes-exist-where-teacher-doesnt-speak-language-of-the-students/120028/8 "2002-07-21T01:48:21Z")
Revtim, I taught the kind of classes you describe for a couple of years. The only difference was that I was in China, not Japan. They work fairly well, depending on the effort the student puts into it. As you surmised, the student needs to have at least some familiarity with English. But they’re not so proficient that it’s just a brush up. The lowest level class available with a native English teacher requires that the student be able to carry on a very basic conversation. (“Hello. My name is … I work in a factory, etc.”) Students below that level enter a class with a teacher from their own country who can speak both languages. Once they can understand a foreign teacher, speaking … very … very … slowly, then they move into that class. Usually classes with a foreign teacher are very expensive, so the students are extremely motivated not to waste their time. They feel that they can learn English from a native English speaker much better than from a local teacher who speaks English with a heavy accent. Whether that’s true or not is open to debate; but that’s how they feel. They are also motivated to learn English as fast as possible and with as little accent as possible, because for many of them this is their ticket to a much better job. If they can get hired by a multinational company with offices in their city, they’ll make ten times as much as working in a local factory or store. Very motivational! As for the teacher, most language schools that send Americans to a foreign country to teach English require a Bachelors degree. They tell you that you don’t need teaching experience, because they can train you to present the English lessons. But all of the ones I’ve seen or heard about require a degree in some field, due to the requirements of the foreign government (China, Japan, Korea, etc.) A neat side benefit, as has been pointed out by another poster, is that the teacher gets to learn the students’ language at the same time. All in all, it was a great experience, and one I’d recommend to anyone able to do it. ---
**Author:** ![YiBaiYuan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/f475e1/32.png) [@YiBaiYuan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YiBaiYuan)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2002, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-language-classes-exist-where-teacher-doesnt-speak-language-of-the-students/120028/9 "2002-07-21T01:58:12Z")
Revtim, I taught the kind of classes you describe for a couple of years. The only difference was that I was in China, not Japan. They work fairly well, depending on the effort the student puts into it. As you surmised, the student needs to have at least some familiarity with English. But they’re not so proficient that it’s just a brush up. The lowest level class available with a native English teacher requires that the student be able to carry on a very basic conversation. (“Hello. My name is … I work in a factory, etc.”) Students below that level enter a class with a teacher from their own country who can speak both languages. Once they can understand a foreign teacher, speaking … very … very … slowly, then they move into that class. Usually classes with a foreign teacher are very expensive, so the students are extremely motivated not to waste their time. They feel that they can learn English from a native English speaker much better than from a local teacher who speaks English with a heavy accent. Whether that’s true or not may be open to debate; but that’s how they feel. They are also motivated to learn English as fast as possible and with as little accent as possible, because for many of them this is their ticket to a much better job. If they can get hired by a multinational company with offices in their city, they’ll make ten times as much as working in a local factory or store. Very motivational! As for the teacher, most language schools that send Americans to a foreign country to teach English require a Bachelors degree. They tell you that you don’t need teaching experience, because they can train you to present the English lessons. But all of the ones I’ve seen or heard about require a degree in some field, due to the requirements of the foreign government (China, Japan, Korea, etc.) A neat side benefit, as has been pointed out by another poster, is that the teacher gets to learn the students’ language at the same time. All in all, it was a great experience, and one I’d recommend to anyone able to do it. ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2002, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-language-classes-exist-where-teacher-doesnt-speak-language-of-the-students/120028/10 "2002-07-21T02:21:07Z")
The “Berlitz method” uses only the language being taught, not the language of the students. I taught using Berlitz in Spain, the classes are all in English. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2002, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-language-classes-exist-where-teacher-doesnt-speak-language-of-the-students/120028/11 "2002-07-21T02:21:14Z")
My wife went to Finland to teach English for preschoolers there. They wanted someone who spoke no Finnish to force the kids to use English all the time. ---
**Author:** ![syncrolecyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@syncrolecyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/syncrolecyne)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2002, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-language-classes-exist-where-teacher-doesnt-speak-language-of-the-students/120028/12 "2002-07-21T02:35:42Z")
A lot of ads I have seen for ESOL teachers in Europe, Japan, or Latin America insist that the prospective teacher NOT know the local language fluently - for immersion. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2002, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-language-classes-exist-where-teacher-doesnt-speak-language-of-the-students/120028/13 "2002-07-21T03:00:20Z")
My husband’s mother taught English at Tokyo University despite knowing very little Japanese and not having an education degree. She taught English as it is spoken in America, not as it is learned formally from books. She loved the job, the students and the country. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2002, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-language-classes-exist-where-teacher-doesnt-speak-language-of-the-students/120028/14 "2002-07-21T03:02:32Z")
Though it’s not the type of situation in the OP example, there are also English classes held in the U.S. for immigrants, where the students come from various countries and no common language is shared. The teachers probably don’t know any of the students’ languages, and certainly don’t know them all. Takes a lot of pointing and acting out. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2002, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-language-classes-exist-where-teacher-doesnt-speak-language-of-the-students/120028/15 "2002-07-21T03:10:00Z")
Thanks for all the info everyone, interesting stories! ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2002, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-language-classes-exist-where-teacher-doesnt-speak-language-of-the-students/120028/16 "2002-07-21T03:22:05Z")
Hey, I’ve taught English classes here in Texas and the students in my class spoke something, English it was not! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![mazzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eada6e/32.png) [@mazzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mazzer)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2002, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-language-classes-exist-where-teacher-doesnt-speak-language-of-the-students/120028/17 "2002-07-21T03:37:05Z")
In Texas, ESL (English as a Second Language) has taken some heat for being partially ineffective. They learn to speak but don’t learn grammar. It works well to teach someone to conversate, but it’s basically monkey-see, monkey-do. Thus, when they are placed in regular English classes, they immediately falter. So I would say it’s effective for adults simply wanting to be functional in a foreign society, but for kids wanting to become a member of society, not as effective. I am just reflecting the sentiment I encountered, so I could be wrong, not having first-hand experience. ---
**Author:** ![racinchikki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@racinchikki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racinchikki)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2002, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-language-classes-exist-where-teacher-doesnt-speak-language-of-the-students/120028/18 "2002-07-21T04:08:43Z")
> [@](#): > > conversate [nitpick]Converse.[/nitpick] ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2002, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-language-classes-exist-where-teacher-doesnt-speak-language-of-the-students/120028/19 "2002-07-21T12:45:34Z")
**Mr. O** ’s experiences in Japan pretty much match my own. Most of the students taking “English Conversation” classes had already studied (or were currently studying) English grammar and basic vocabulary in Jr. High and High School, and now wanted a class where they could learn to communicate (something the school systems are notoriously ineffective at teaching). Some wanted to be able to travel without a tour guide, some needed to be able to guide foreign visitors around their factory, some who worked at hospitals wanted tips on helping foreign patients, and others just enjoyed shooting the breeze in a foreign language. Some absolute beginners take classes with non-Japanese speakers, such as in the government-sponsored JET program in the public schools, but in these cases they are usually working alongside the students’ regular (Japanese) teacher. One does the nuts and bolts grammar, and one demonstrates how to use it in everyday situations. Incidentally, I studied Japanese for a year and did some volunteer ESL teaching in Chinatown (Boston) before coming over. It wasn’t absolutely essential, but it helped significantly a number of times (especially considering how little preparation my first school gave me). ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2002, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-language-classes-exist-where-teacher-doesnt-speak-language-of-the-students/120028/20 "2002-07-21T14:34:59Z")
Yes, we have a Deaf ASL teacher at our local college who does not speak the language, but instead, signs it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-language-classes-exist-where-teacher-doesnt-speak-language-of-the-students/120028.md?page=2)