# Do lawyers have to be licensed for specialties? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 19, 2025, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-lawyers-have-to-be-licensed-for-specialties/1014526 "2025-02-19T18:53:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2025, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-lawyers-have-to-be-licensed-for-specialties/1014526/1 "2025-02-19T18:53:50Z")
If I’ve spent the last 10 years writing wills, is there any legal restriction stopping me from defending someone against a murder charge tomorrow? ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2025, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-lawyers-have-to-be-licensed-for-specialties/1014526/2 "2025-02-19T19:06:34Z")
It may depend on what state you practice in, but I’m not aware of any such limitations. You obviously passed the bar, however I’m not sure why someone would hire such an inexperienced trial lawyer if they were being charged with murder, ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2025, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-lawyers-have-to-be-licensed-for-specialties/1014526/3 "2025-02-19T19:09:32Z")
> [@Can a commercial lawyer effectively represent criminal defendants in court (Better Call Saul)?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-commercial-lawyer-effectively-represent-criminal-defendants-in-court-better-call-saul/944971/): > > This is a general question although it references a fictional character. In the TV Show “Better Call Saul”, the character Kim Wexler does some pro bono work as a public defender, even though her day job is as a litigation lawyer in a commercial law firm. This seems incredible to me because the roles are so different that I can’t see how she could possibly be competent to advise and represent people in criminal cases. In a US context, is this realistic? Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2025, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-lawyers-have-to-be-licensed-for-specialties/1014526/4 "2025-02-19T19:39:03Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > If I’ve spent the last 10 years writing wills, is there any legal restriction stopping me from defending someone against a murder charge tomorrow? Not a legal restriction per se. But you have an ethical obligation to know what you’re doing. (and you wouldn’t get appointed by a court to defend a murder case if you haven’t practiced criminal law before.) Here’s the Washington Rule, and the first comment to the rule (based on the model rules, so similar to other states) > A lawyer shall provide competent representation to a client. Competent representation > requires the legal knowledge, skill, thoroughness and preparation reasonably necessary for the > representation. > [Adopted effective September 1, 1985; Amended effective September 1, 2006.] > **Comment** > Legal Knowledge and Skill > [1] In determining whether a lawyer employs the requisite knowledge and skill in a particular > matter, relevant factors include the relative complexity and specialized nature of the matter, the > lawyer’s general experience, the lawyer’s training and experience in the field in question, the > preparation and study the lawyer is able to give the matter and whether it is feasible to refer the > matter to, or associate or consult with, a lawyer of established competence in the field in > question. In many instances, the required proficiency is that of a general practitioner. Expertise in > a particular field of law may be required in some circumstances. sorry about the formatting. [RULE 1](https://www.courts.wa.gov/court_rules/pdf/RPC/GA_RPC_01_01_00.pdf) But no, the license is for almost everything. In most states you cannot even get officially recognized as a specialist in an area, and have to be careful not to advertise yourself as such. Some states do allow specialization in certain areas of the law. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2025, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-lawyers-have-to-be-licensed-for-specialties/1014526/5 "2025-02-19T20:52:50Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > (and you wouldn’t get appointed by a court to defend a murder case if you haven’t practiced criminal law before.) [Well, it depends…](https://youtu.be/GEA_1DWRzwY?si=Zdg28h9Dxf5gxdoN) Stranger ---
**Author:** ![We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/We_re_wolves_not_werewolves)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2025, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-lawyers-have-to-be-licensed-for-specialties/1014526/6 "2025-02-19T21:02:08Z")
To represent someone at the patent office, an attorney needs to be registered with the USPTO, meaning they have passed the patent registration exam. And to even be able to _take_ the exam, you need at least an undergraduate degree in certain engineering or scientific disciplines. > **[Becoming a patent practitioner](https://www.uspto.gov/learning-and-resources/patent-and-trademark-practitioners/becoming-patent-practitioner)** > > Learn about applying for registration to practice in patent matters before the USPTO, including requirements, forms, and exam information. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2025, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-lawyers-have-to-be-licensed-for-specialties/1014526/7 "2025-02-19T21:11:33Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > But no, the license is for almost everything. In most states you cannot even get officially recognized as a specialist in an area, and have to be careful not to advertise yourself as such. Hence the disclaimers in TV ads by lawyers chasing pots of gold from product liability lawsuits. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2025, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-lawyers-have-to-be-licensed-for-specialties/1014526/8 "2025-02-19T23:26:26Z")
Melvin Bellii was infamous for representing Jack Ruby in the murder trial of Lee Harvey Oswald. Belli had only done civil cases and definitely nothing as serious as murder. Belli tried an untested and unusual defense under Texas law. So Ruby was convicted. Experts said that a standard Texas criminal lawyer could have gotten Ruby a short sentence. Belli served pro bono for the publicity. Ruby got what he paid for. Other lawyers stepped in for the appeal but Ruby died before there was a new trial. Sure, 60 years ago but I doubt Texas bar rules have changed in this regard. ---
**Author:** ![DtypeJag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@DtypeJag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DtypeJag)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2025, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-lawyers-have-to-be-licensed-for-specialties/1014526/9 "2025-02-20T00:02:43Z")
Maybe I’m mistaken but in England don’t you have to pass tests to even be a trial lawyer rather than a lawyer who deals with trusts or real estate etc.? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2025, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-lawyers-have-to-be-licensed-for-specialties/1014526/10 "2025-02-20T00:14:29Z")
They have two different types of lawyers, barristers and solicitors. Barristers are the trial lawyers. I believe there is some overlap. Our UK or Commonweath friends can probably explain it better. ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2025, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-lawyers-have-to-be-licensed-for-specialties/1014526/11 "2025-02-20T00:41:53Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Our UK or Commonweath friends can probably explain it better. Canada does not distinguish between the two. ---
**Author:** ![Folly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folly/32/3219_2.png) [@Folly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folly)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2025, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-lawyers-have-to-be-licensed-for-specialties/1014526/12 "2025-02-20T00:45:32Z")
This is what Illinois wants me to put at the bottom of my solo firm website. - The Supreme Court of Illinois does not recognize certifications of specialties in the practice of law and the certificate, award or recognition is not a requirement to practice law in Illinois. - The information on this website is for general purposes only and should not be interpreted to indicate a certain result will occur in your specific legal situation. - The information on this website is not legal advice and does not create an attorney-client relationship. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2025, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-lawyers-have-to-be-licensed-for-specialties/1014526/13 "2025-02-20T11:11:52Z")
Indeed, English law distinguishes between barristers and solicitors (and a whole range of other more narrowly specialised legal professions, such as conveyancers, chartered legal executives and costs lawyers, but those are relatively recent innovations). To put it shortly, barristers are the ones who appear before the higher courts; solicitors are your go-to advisors for non-litigious legal advice or drafting services and appear before lower courts. As a member of the public, you wouldn’t hire a barrister directly; you’d have a solicitor working for you before the issue reaches the litigation stage, and if litigation becomes necessary, it’s the solicitor who will hire (“instruct”) the barrister. This is how it works traditionally, at least. There’s a lot in flux here in the last two decades or so: Solicitors can do extra training to acquire “higher rights” that allow them to appear before higher courts; the public can access barristers directly, etc. So the two professions are getting closer to each other, but they’re still considered to be separate professions, and it’s highly unusual (though not legally impossible, to my knowledge) to be both a barrister and a solicitor at the same time. Both barristers and solicitors are regulated legal professions; you need to get training and pass examinations to qualify for them, and you’re subject to disciplinary powers of a regulator to ensure you behave properly (but separate regulators for the two). You don’t need a law degree to qualify, though, and many highly successful practitioners have an academic background in some other discipline. For in-house work in a legal department, employers will typically expect a qualification as either a barrister or a solicitor, and treat the two as equivalent. I’m a solicitor but work exclusively in-house, so I don’t really have clients other than my employer. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2025, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-lawyers-have-to-be-licensed-for-specialties/1014526/14 "2025-02-20T21:10:54Z")
Quebec has a profession of Notary. They are a kind of minor league lawyer who deal exclusively with wills and real estate transactions. There are also commissioners for oaths who do what in the US are called Notaries (public). ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2025, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-lawyers-have-to-be-licensed-for-specialties/1014526/15 "2025-02-20T22:54:48Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Quebec has a profession of Notary. They are a kind of minor league lawyer who deal exclusively with wills and real estate transactions They’re more than that, and are required to have more academic training than avocats. They are highly specialized, but I wouldn’t say they are minor-league. > [@](#): > > ## Notaries > > Many notaries work in the field of business law. Here are a few examples of what they can help you with: > > - Completing the formalities for creating, merging or selling your business. > - Handling recurring legal obligations. > - Assisting in negotiations and strategic development. > - Drafting or reviewing commercial leases. > > Notaries can provide advice on a variety of legal topics and explain the impact your business can have on other parts of your life (for example, in the event of divorce or death). Some notaries are highly specialized in certain fields such as tax law, franchises and commercial mediation. Notaries aren’t limited to real estate and wills! > **[Specialized Help for Your Business | Éducaloi](https://educaloi.qc.ca/en/capsules/specialized-help-for-your-business/)** > > In business, knowing where to turn for help can make all the difference. Notaries, lawyers, accountants, trademarks agents and bankruptcy trustees are a few of the specialists you can count on when needed. Notaries Many notaries work in the field of... ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2025, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-lawyers-have-to-be-licensed-for-specialties/1014526/16 "2025-02-21T02:06:53Z")
Ignorance fought. The only contexts I knew of Notaries were real estate transactions and wills. So I thought of them as carrying out some limited functions of lawyers. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2025, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-lawyers-have-to-be-licensed-for-specialties/1014526/17 "2025-02-21T02:16:49Z")
They’re part of the civil law tradition: > **[Civil law notary](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_law_notary)** > > Civil-law notaries, or Latin notaries, are lawyers of noncontentious private civil law who draft, take, and record legal instruments for private parties, provide legal advice and give attendance in person, and are vested as public officers with the authentication power of the State. As opposed to most notaries public, their common-law counterparts, civil-law notaries are highly trained, licensed practitioners providing a full range of regulated legal services, and whereas they hold a public offic... The extra training that they get in Quebec is either a certificate or an LL.M. in notarial practice, after completeing an LL.B., specialising in non-contentious transactions. They then have to qualify with the Chambre des notaires. Avocats just need the LL.B., and then qualification iwth the Barreau du Québec. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2025, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-lawyers-have-to-be-licensed-for-specialties/1014526/18 "2025-02-21T02:20:04Z")
> [@FinsToTheLeft](#): > > Canada does not distinguish between the two. Not in a strict sense like in England, but we still keep the concepts. In my province, all lawyers are formally barristers and solicitors, and in practice, many lawyers specialise in one or the other areas. I would say I’m primarily a barrister. I do some opinion work, in the tradition of “counsel’s opinion”, but I would never draft a will or do a real estate closing. ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2025, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-lawyers-have-to-be-licensed-for-specialties/1014526/19 "2025-02-21T02:31:08Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I would say I’m primarily a barrister. I do some opinion work, in the tradition of “counsel’s opinion”, but I would never draft a will or do a real estate closing. My dad almost never went to court, specializing in large commercial real estate deals for 40 years. He had a set of robes but hadn’t worn them since the 1960s. I think my sister used them for a Halloween costume sometime around 1980. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2025, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-lawyers-have-to-be-licensed-for-specialties/1014526/20 "2025-02-21T02:43:18Z")
The discussion of robes came up once at a local bar dinner, and one of the solicitor-types said, “I can’t remember the last time I wore my robes for a non-sexual purpose.” He was joking. I think. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-lawyers-have-to-be-licensed-for-specialties/1014526.md?page=2)