# Do liberals and conservatives have different facial features? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 11, 2009, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-liberals-and-conservatives-have-different-facial-features/496039 "2009-05-11T15:46:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-liberals-and-conservatives-have-different-facial-features/496039/21 "2009-05-11T20:16:17Z")
There is no image, and I mean _ **NO image** _, more emotionally charged than the human face. Trying to assign any specific objective qualities, let alone things as high-minded as political persuasions, based on facial features is not only pointless, inaccurate, and childish, its almost akin to what the Nazis did with their propaganda. Pointing out features like big noses, dark oily hair, or large foreheads. As Smithers said to Mr. Burns, “Phrenology was dismissed as quackery 160 years ago…” If you continue writing in this thread it means you probably have the brainpan of a stagecoach tilter! (or a whiny liberal!) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Cagey\_Drifter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@Cagey\_Drifter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cagey_Drifter)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-liberals-and-conservatives-have-different-facial-features/496039/22 "2009-05-11T20:19:24Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > What clothing style/grooming traits do you see as conservative vs liberal? Do they apply across international boundaries? One thing I’d say is that I generally agree with what Matt Taibbi says in his excellent and hilarious book, “Spanking the Donkey.” After attending a number of liberal and conservative events, he says that one thing he always notices: conservatives are always clean-shaven (i.e. no 3 day growth), have well-groomed hair, and are tidy in appearance. I’m not sure about the clothes part. ---
**Author:** ![Cagey\_Drifter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@Cagey\_Drifter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cagey_Drifter)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-liberals-and-conservatives-have-different-facial-features/496039/23 "2009-05-11T20:27:44Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > There is no image, and I mean _ **NO image** _, more emotionally charged than the human face. Trying to assign any specific objective qualities, let alone things as high-minded as political persuasions, based on facial features is not only pointless, inaccurate, and childish, its almost akin to what the Nazis did with their propaganda. Pointing out features like big noses, dark oily hair, or large foreheads. Though I am sympathetic to liberal politics, I don’t have a political agenda. I wanted to know if my gut reaction to seeing a guy and thinking he was conservative may be more than just a learned response, and whether it had any basis in genetics. Far from trying to “assign” qualities, I’m actually trying to establish correlation. I’m thinking here of conservatism/liberalism as being an outcome variable of some unknown process that may cause other outcomes like certain facial features. I don’t see how it’s any different than saying that [bald people are more likely to have heart disease](http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/160/2/165). ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-liberals-and-conservatives-have-different-facial-features/496039/24 "2009-05-11T20:46:55Z")
How about a test? I could present you with pictures of a selection of Canadian MPs and you could try to sort them into Liberals and Conservatives and see if you can do better than random. How well do you think you’d do? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-liberals-and-conservatives-have-different-facial-features/496039/25 "2009-05-11T20:52:57Z")
> [@Cagey Drifter](#): > > Thanks. This should suggest that my assertion that there may be a link is not completely ridiculous. Actually, if you read the study **puddleglum** linked to, it suggests the exact **OPPOSITE** of what you and he seem to think it says. That is, the study (of identical and fraternal twins) found a statistically significant correlation between genetic kinship and **strength of ideological partisanship**. It did **not** find any significant heritability of **direction of ideological partisanship** : > [@puddleglum's linked study](#): > > The ACE model suggest that heritability (h2) generates about 46% of the variance in strength of partisan attachment. The 95% confidence interval (C.I.) for the estimate is (5%, 57%), indicating that we can reject the hypothesis that genes play no role in > partisanship strength. > > Previous research indicates a modest genetic influence on vote choice (e.g. choice between Labor versus Conservative parties) but suggests that it could be attributed to an underlying genetic component in perceived attitudes and perceptions that intermediate the relationship with vote choice (Hatemi et al. 2007). Other research indicates that individual differences in political partisanship can be attributed mostly to the environment (Eaves et al. 1989; Olson et al. 2001; Bouchard et al. 2003). To test these theories in our sample, we repeated the analysis using a directional measure of partisanship in Table 3. Although the ACE model was the best fit of any of the models tried, we do not find a significant role for heritability in describing the direction of partisanship. This result is consistent with prior work suggesting the heritability of party choice is low (Alford, Funk, and Hibbing 2005). In other words, although genes appear to play a significant role in how strongly we attach to a given party, we do not find much evidence that they influence which party will be chosen. So your genes may influence how strong your preference is for your political party, but they have no significant influence on **which** political party you prefer. ---
**Author:** ![Cagey\_Drifter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@Cagey\_Drifter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cagey_Drifter)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-liberals-and-conservatives-have-different-facial-features/496039/26 "2009-05-11T21:03:29Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Actually, if you read the study **puddleglum** linked to, it suggests the exact **OPPOSITE** of what you and he seem to think it says. I wouldn’t say that it says the opposite; more like it says something different. But still, the different thing that it says could possible lend some credence to what I’m conjecturing-- namely that genetics might play some role in expression of political ideology. Something that explains 46% of something else is not something you can easily write off. > [@Gorsnak](#): > > How about a test? I could present you with pictures of a selection of Canadian MPs and you could try to sort them into Liberals and Conservatives and see if you can do better than random. How well do you think you’d do? I don’t know, but I’d like to try! ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-liberals-and-conservatives-have-different-facial-features/496039/27 "2009-05-11T21:20:41Z")
> [@Cagey Drifter](#): > > I wouldn’t say that it says the opposite; more like it says something different. But still, the different thing that it says could possible lend some credence to what I’m conjecturing-- namely that genetics might play some role in expression of political ideology. Uh, no. It says right there in the part that I quoted: > [@](#): > > […] we do not find a significant role for heritability in describing the direction of partisanship. This result is consistent with prior work suggesting the heritability of party choice is low […] Emphasis added. It is clear that this study did not only find results on a different topic from the one you’re interested in. It also found results that **directly contradict your speculative hypothesis about the topic you’re interested in**. You may still choose to believe that genetics (as expressed in, e.g., phenotypic differences) are significantly linked to one’s choice of party. And certainly, the last word on the subject hasn’t been said. But the study that we’re talking about does not in fact provide any support for your speculation: in fact, it directly contradicts it. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-liberals-and-conservatives-have-different-facial-features/496039/28 "2009-05-11T21:20:58Z")
> [@Cagey\_Drifter](#): > > Though I am sympathetic to liberal politics, I don’t have a political agenda. I wanted to know if my gut reaction to seeing a guy and thinking he was conservative may be more than just a learned response, and whether it had any basis in genetics.. This would be more believeable if the qualities you were observing were “tall and thin” or “left hand larger than right” or “long ear lobes” – actually, any quality that’s objectively physical, as opposed to the subjectively pejorative ones you chose. His eyes are “weirdly vacant.” His hair is “molded.” He has a “curled upper lip” – a common literary descriptor of the elitist, snobbish, or supercilious. Your own OP belies your protestations of a lack of bias. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-liberals-and-conservatives-have-different-facial-features/496039/29 "2009-05-11T21:22:44Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > How about a test? I could present you with pictures of a selection of Canadian MPs and you could try to sort them into Liberals and Conservatives and see if you can do better than random. How well do you think you’d do? Personally, I’d love to try a test like that. Since I’m American and woefully ignorant of Canadian politicians, I would have literally no idea of part affiliation. I wonder how I’d do in predicting political leanings based solely on appearance. “Not well,” would be my guess. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-liberals-and-conservatives-have-different-facial-features/496039/30 "2009-05-11T21:27:45Z")
> [@Jodi](#): > > Personally, I’d love to try a test like that. Since I’m American and woefully ignorant of Canadian politicians, I would have literally no idea of part affiliation. I wonder how I’d do in predicting political leanings based solely on appearance. > > “Not well,” would be my guess. Remember though, Canadian conservative : conservative :: Canadian bacon : bacon. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Cagey\_Drifter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@Cagey\_Drifter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cagey_Drifter)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-liberals-and-conservatives-have-different-facial-features/496039/31 "2009-05-11T21:27:47Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Uh, no. It says right there in the part that I quoted Oops, sorry-- I missed that part somehow. Thanks for pointing it out! > [@Jodi](#): > > Your own OP belies your protestations of a lack of bias. Oh shit you figured out my secret. :rolleyes: Listen, I said that I did not have a _political agenda_ in my question; I didn’t say I wasn’t biased against conservatives. In fact, I did say I was biased when I said I was partial to liberal politics. I even suggested it in my OP where I described my impression of the guy as based on [obviously negative] stereotypes. So tell me now-- what possible _political agenda_ could I have in ascertaining a connection between genetics and political persuasion? ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-liberals-and-conservatives-have-different-facial-features/496039/32 "2009-05-11T23:33:08Z")
What happens when people switch parties or go from conservative to liberal or vice versa? ---
**Author:** ![tiltypig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dbc845/32.png) [@tiltypig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiltypig)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-liberals-and-conservatives-have-different-facial-features/496039/33 "2009-05-11T23:44:27Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > What happens when people switch parties or go from conservative to liberal or vice versa? Assuming that political orientation has some genetic component (which it is important to note the above study seems to dismiss), I think it is unlikely that political orientation would be driven 100% by genetics; therefore, if someone switches parties, I doubt their lip would straighten out. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-liberals-and-conservatives-have-different-facial-features/496039/34 "2009-05-12T00:15:37Z")
> [@Cagey\_Drifter](#): > > I don’t know, but I’d like to try! Very well, then. I have compiled the official portrait photographs of 25 sitting Members of Parliament. 10 Conservatives, 10 Liberals, and 5 NDP. The NDP are politically to the left of the Liberals. For the purposes of the test, you can feel free to lump them in with the Liberals, which means you’d aim for 10 con and 15 lib. I’ve left Bloc Quebecois MPs out entirely as they don’t map onto a conservative/liberal continuum very well. The MPs were chosen by going to the Parliamentary website’s list of sitting members, ordering it by party (so I could skip the Bloc), and then rolling a pair of dice and moving that far down the list. I then cherry-picked a bit to balance the gender distribution for a couple parties. Couldn’t have the NDP represented ONLY by stodgy old white guys. And finally I more or less randomly ditched some Tories and a few Liberals to get to my nice round numbers. So, without further ado: [the picture](http://members.shaw.ca/djklassen/appearances.jpg). In a couple hours I’ll post the answers in a spoiler box. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-liberals-and-conservatives-have-different-facial-features/496039/35 "2009-05-12T00:44:45Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > While generalizations always fall down if applied specifically, I do picture conservatives as tending to be fuller of face, and redder of countenance. You mean like Bill Clinton and Teddy Kennedy? I believe they have helmet hair too. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-liberals-and-conservatives-have-different-facial-features/496039/36 "2009-05-12T00:53:45Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > So, without further ado: [the picture](http://members.shaw.ca/djklassen/appearances.jpg). > > In a couple hours I’ll post the answers in a spoiler box. This is just too much fun to let pass. My answers: LCCLL LLCLC CCCCC LLCCC LCLCC Anyways, I think that at least in the US, there might be some correlation between faces and political leaning simply because political leaning is not uniformly represented among all ethnicities, social class, regions, etc. And without having seen the link upthread, of course that people are more likely to be of the same political affiliation that their parents (says my wag glands). This would mean some level of “heredity” on political affiliation. ETA: Rereading the post, I just noticed I got the numbers wrong. I wasn’t shooting for any numbers and just deciding Lib or Con and ended up with 15 Con and 10 Lib. Oh well. Ammo for the no link crowd. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-liberals-and-conservatives-have-different-facial-features/496039/37 "2009-05-12T01:05:50Z")
> [@Sapo](#): > > This is just too much fun to let pass. > > My answers: > > LCCLL > LLCLC > CCCCC > LLCCC > LCLCC > > Anyways, I think that at least in the US, there might be some correlation between faces and political leaning simply because political leaning is not uniformly represented among all ethnicities, social class, regions, etc. > > And without having seen the link upthread, of course that people are more likely to be of the same political affiliation that their parents (says my wag glands). This would mean some level of “heredity” on political affiliation. > > ETA: Rereading the post, I just noticed I got the numbers wrong. I wasn’t shooting for any numbers and just deciding Lib or Con and ended up with 15 Con and 10 Lib. Oh well. Ammo for the no link crowd. You’re putting too much weight on gender and ethnicity. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-liberals-and-conservatives-have-different-facial-features/496039/38 "2009-05-12T01:11:57Z")
This question certainly doesn’t belong in Genral Questions. And, I can’t see it rising to the importance of a Gread Debate. Let’s try IMHO for now. **samclem** Moderator, General Questions ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-liberals-and-conservatives-have-different-facial-features/496039/39 "2009-05-12T01:29:06Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > So, without further ado: [the picture](http://members.shaw.ca/djklassen/appearances.jpg). > > In a couple hours I’ll post the answers in a spoiler box. My answers (curiously, I got an almost even number of each - 13 liberals and 12 conservatives): 1. L 2. C 3. L 4. L 5. C 6. L 7. L 8. C 9. C 10. C 11. L 12. C 13. L 14. C 15. L 16. L 17. L 18. L 19. C 20. C 21. L 22. C 23. C 24. L 25. C ETA: Sapo and I used the same answer 16 times, or just over 50% of the time. Looking at the pictures again, I think I may have weighted gender and age too heavily rather than gender and ethnicity. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-liberals-and-conservatives-have-different-facial-features/496039/40 "2009-05-12T01:39:40Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > So, without further ado: [the picture](http://members.shaw.ca/djklassen/appearances.jpg). I want to try too. FTR, I’m a moderate conservative myself. Liberals #3#4#5#7 #14 #16 #6#11 #22 #23 Conservatives #1#2#8#10 #15 #20 #25 #21 #24 #17 NDP #13 #19 #9 #12 #18 As for the OP, I don’t think you can really tell by looking at faces. Hairstyles and clothes, on the other hand, might be clues. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-liberals-and-conservatives-have-different-facial-features/496039.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-liberals-and-conservatives-have-different-facial-features/496039.md?page=3)