# Do libraries serve a purpose anymore? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 21, 2008, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-libraries-serve-a-purpose-anymore/478165 "2008-12-21T05:47:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-libraries-serve-a-purpose-anymore/478165/181 "2008-12-23T05:06:37Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > Use another search engine. Methinks that you’re putting way too much faith in the worldwide web. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-libraries-serve-a-purpose-anymore/478165/182 "2008-12-23T05:17:42Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > Get it. Dial up’s cheap, as are most broadband packages in the UK, especially if you already have cable TV. Computers not so much. Then the cost the phone line. All that costs money and fuck you if you don’t have it cause I got mine? Seems pretty damn hostile and oppressive to the poor. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-libraries-serve-a-purpose-anymore/478165/183 "2008-12-23T11:55:06Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > Those books you want… how long does it take you to get them over the Internet? A day or two perhaps from Amazon UK. The only time it’s been on the order of a week’s wait is when I have to have the books shipped from the USA. It takes the same amount of time to ship a book halfway across the world as it does between two libraries in the same system. We’re not talking about anything rare, either, or out of print, we’re talking about books aimed at a reading age above 12. And everybody else, I acknowledge your arguments and concede that public libraries serve a purpose. I just think that there should be tighter control over what is available at libraries. Funding for games consoles, not so much. > [@Lsura](#): > > And because I don’t make a lot of money, I shouldn’t be able to watch movies? Because if I can’t afford to rent one from Blockbuster I sure can’t afford to go see a movie in the theater. Pretty much, yeah. Watching a movie’s a luxury. Why should everybody else subsidize your movie viewing? And, if you’re that poor, where the hell’s your DVD player and TV from? Weren’t you just pointing out the capital cost of a computer? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-libraries-serve-a-purpose-anymore/478165/184 "2008-12-23T12:26:23Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > I just think that there should be tighter control over what is available at libraries. Funding for games consoles, not so much. > > Watching a movie’s a luxury. Why should everybody else subsidize your movie viewing? And, if you’re that poor, where the hell’s your DVD player and TV from? Weren’t you just pointing out the capital cost of a computer? I’ve asked this of a few of the library haters, but no one seems to have an answer for me. Why is any book inherently better than any movie or video game (I guess music CDs get a pass)? And where do graphic novels fall on the scale? Modern libraries are much more than storehouses of books. They are also community centers nowadays. And if you can gather a bunch of people together to play games (and maybe check out a few books in the process), isn’t that a good thing? Nevermind the fact that if a library owns a game console, there’s a good chance (like 75%) that it was donated. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-libraries-serve-a-purpose-anymore/478165/185 "2008-12-23T12:52:25Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > [http://www.ala.org/ala/newspresscenter/news/pressreleases2008/September2008/ORSharris.cfm](http://www.ala.org/ala/newspresscenter/news/pressreleases2008/September2008/ORSharris.cfm) > > 68% of the country has a library card, I know that’s what your link says but I have to call BS on that. There is no way in the world that can be true. Just no way in the world. My only conclusion from that cite is that the American Library Association are liars. Big time liars. The population of the USA is about 302 million. I would bet there is no way they can support the notion that there are 200 million library cards active in the USA (and that would not even take into account that one person could hold more than one). There is no way in the world there are 200 million people in the USA who are regular users of libraries. No way. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-libraries-serve-a-purpose-anymore/478165/186 "2008-12-23T12:56:42Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > I know that’s what your link says but I have to call BS on that. There is no way in the world that can be true. Just no way in the world. My only conclusion from that cite is that the American Library Association are liars. Big time liars. If you read to the bottom, you’d see the survey came from Harris and was non-commisioned. The ALA is just happily reporting the happy facts. Those numbers are also in line with what I’ve seen in my local system, so it’s very believable to me. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-libraries-serve-a-purpose-anymore/478165/187 "2008-12-23T14:11:09Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > If you read to the bottom, you’d see the survey came from Harris and was non-commisioned. The ALA is just happily reporting the happy facts. > > Those numbers are also in line with what I’ve seen in my local system, so it’s very believable to me. I do not believe it for a split second. This is [a question which has a factual answer](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=498805). ---
**Author:** ![BJMoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@BJMoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BJMoose)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-libraries-serve-a-purpose-anymore/478165/188 "2008-12-23T14:19:45Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > I do not believe it for a split second. This is [a question which has a factual answer](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=498805). Indeed it does. The problem is, you aren’t offering any _facts_ to support your gut feeling. The Harris folks, whatever their failings may be, at least tried. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-libraries-serve-a-purpose-anymore/478165/189 "2008-12-23T14:31:57Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > Discernment of such things is a vital skill, no doubt, but how do libraries teach it? Well, I don’t know about your library, but I teach information literacy classes to school children, homeschool kids, and adults all the time. Not to mention the one on one bibliographic instruction I give people every day. In the school district in my county, if you want to apply for a job as a freaking janitor you have to use the online application. It’s unreal, but it’s true. Most of the people I help with the computers all day are trying to apply for jobs that have extremely unreasonable technological literacy bars set over them - you want to sweep the floors but you, who have never used a computer in your life and will not need to to clean toilets, have to make your way through a positively Byzantine website that hardly even works. To apply for a job at Wal-Mart you need a password with uppercase and lowercase and two numbers, and there are FIVE VERIFICATION QUESTIONS. That’s old hat to you and me, but not to the people who don’t have any experience with it. ETA - next month I’m giving a class At Your Local Public Library for anybody who wants to sign up on “Wikipedia - A Real Source?” I’ll be discussing when it’s a good idea to use sources like Wikipedia, how to decide what information is good information, and how to use citations along with the library’s resources to get peer reviewed information on a topic. You’re welcome to sign up, if I am At Your Local Public Library. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-libraries-serve-a-purpose-anymore/478165/190 "2008-12-23T22:29:12Z")
Those who want to discuss the question of what tax money should and should not be used for in libraries may want to check out this new thread: > **[Should libraries offer movies, music CDs and video games?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=498822)** > > In this thread on whether or not libraries still serve a purpose, the question was raised about how libraries should be spending our tax dollars. Rather than continue to hijack that thread further, I’m starting another one to ask the question of how... ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2008, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-libraries-serve-a-purpose-anymore/478165/191 "2008-12-25T15:42:41Z")
There are a number of countries who follow for one reason or another Libertarian policies. No free libraries or schools ,no pollution or environmental regulation amongst other things. In fact little if any of the intrusive,interventionist over government that Libertarians hate. These countries are known as the Third World. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2008, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-libraries-serve-a-purpose-anymore/478165/192 "2008-12-25T16:10:17Z")
I would like to state again that the free market doesn’t work when there is no profit incentive. Things like handing out books for free while maintaining large collections of them aren’t profitable. If you don’t think libraries are important, you’re probably not the sort of person that uses one. Like how a guy who doesn’t drive thinks the roads are a waste of money. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2008, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-libraries-serve-a-purpose-anymore/478165/193 "2008-12-25T16:15:19Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > Use another search engine. And get the same unreliable information. > [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > Get it. Dial up’s cheap, as are most broadband packages in the UK, especially if you already have cable TV. “Cheap” is relative. > [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > Blockbuster. Better range of movies, too. You can’t be serious. There are so many films I can’t get at Blockbuster that I’m forced to go the library. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2008, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-libraries-serve-a-purpose-anymore/478165/194 "2008-12-25T16:29:44Z")
As for Amazon, I wanted to get a copy of _A Field Guide of Snakes of California_. The price **started** for used at $34. That’s about what I pay in taxes to support libraries. Got to the library and found it right there. You have to take into consideration of the costs of libraries is that they are a system of sharing books that you don’t need to constantly have around. I may only need it once, but then someone else can use it after me. ---
**Author:** ![chicken\_wire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a88e4f/32.png) [@chicken\_wire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chicken_wire)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-libraries-serve-a-purpose-anymore/478165/195 "2008-12-27T12:40:39Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Why is any book inherently better than any movie or video game (I guess music CDs get a pass)? C’mon, the book is almost always better than the movie. 😉 I love public libraries, they’re so lefty and collective. They buy a book once, and let anyone with a library card read it. If a book survives a hundred readings, that’s 99 books that didn’t have to be manufactured. How efficient is that! Man, I’ve scammed my local library system big time over the years. When I first started reading for pleasure, in my mid 20’s, I must have borrowed (and returned unharmed) hundreds of books from the library. It was all fiction, all pure pleasure (just like a console game, only better), and I didn’t learn a damn thing. This was at no expense to myself, because I wasn’t paying council rates. I was working at the time and probably could have afforded to buy the books, but they were there for free, so how could I say no? Even better, I was doing my free reading at work, on the clock and paid by the government railways. Admittedly, I ended up with a book buying habit, and my reading interests later spread into factual areas (but it was all good lefty reactionary stuff). In all, I’m quite proud of my efforts at sticking it to the fascist pig system, via the local public library. Hi libertarian dudes! I may have slightly overstated the extent of my communism, but the basic facts above re: my library use, are correct. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-libraries-serve-a-purpose-anymore/478165/196 "2008-12-27T13:33:55Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > Pretty much, yeah. Watching a movie’s a luxury. Why should everybody else subsidize your movie viewing? Because all work and no play make Jack a dull boy. Even the poor and downtrodden need some entertainment/relaxation. > [@](#): > > And, if you’re that poor, where the hell’s your DVD player and TV from? Weren’t you just pointing out the capital cost of a computer? Once again we encounter the meme that someone poor must have ALWAYS been poor… why is it unlikely that a person poor today was once wealthy enough to purchase a TV or DVD? It’s rather like when people dismiss my current claim of being poor because I have a nice car. Yes, I bought it _before_ I fell on financial hard times. Come to think of it, I also bought my TV and DVD back when I had a nice income. And my computer. Because if I hadn’t bought a computer back then I’d be using the ones at the library for all my internet access. If this computer breaks/malfunctions/ceases to work I can NOT replace it at present. Just not doable. In which case I will be using the ones at the library. ---
**Author:** ![Toxylon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@Toxylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxylon)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-libraries-serve-a-purpose-anymore/478165/197 "2008-12-29T08:16:28Z")
Were it not for local public libraries even a child can use, I’d never have acquired a university-level education, let alone excelled in my studies. ---
**Author:** ![Toxylon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@Toxylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxylon)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-libraries-serve-a-purpose-anymore/478165/198 "2008-12-29T08:47:34Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > You cannot seriously be claiming that the Internet doesn’t provide myriad sources of quality free information, on a range of subjects so huge that most libraries cannot hope to compete? The Internet, as it is today, is small fish compared to the information available at libraries. Sure, for porn, sports and entertainment it’s superior. But I (like many others) have special interests I can find no usable information about on the Net, or only information I’ve put there myself - talk about deflating the World Wide Web awe! Most of those special interests are tackled in books, available at my local library. Even on many less exotic topics, good books are invariably more in-depth, cohesive and useful than what’s available on the Net. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-libraries-serve-a-purpose-anymore/478165/199 "2008-12-29T16:34:25Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Wiki is user-edited-often, it’s shite too Not forgetting that the good articles are those that cite, y’know, the books you find in a library 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-libraries-serve-a-purpose-anymore/478165/200 "2008-12-29T17:28:51Z")
I just happened to use a local library the other day. I’ve been doing research what the crusader city Acre was like in the early 13th century. I found a few snippits online, but took home three books and a number of photocopies from the library. The amount of information isn’t comparable. The library had \*much \*more. Online searches are a good way to start your research, but unless it’s about something very common there is no way it substitutes for a large library. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-libraries-serve-a-purpose-anymore/478165.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-libraries-serve-a-purpose-anymore/478165.md?page=11)