# Do lobsters feel pain when they're boiled alive? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [July 10, 2017, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-lobsters-feel-pain-when-theyre-boiled-alive/790947 "2017-07-10T19:45:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-lobsters-feel-pain-when-theyre-boiled-alive/790947/1 "2017-07-10T19:45:20Z")
[Link to Gfactor’s Staff Report.](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2837/do-lobsters-feel-pain-when-boiled-alive) **Gfactor** concludes (rightly in my opinion) that as things stand at present this question cannot be resolved. I haven’t a clue whether scientists of the future will be able to definitively say that, yes, lobsters do feel pain or, no, they don’t but for all lovers of lobster flesh this is a happy state of affairs indeed. We can continue to enjoy the succulent meat with not a single qualm of conscience. Let us hope that scientists are in no hurry to continue these researches which after all should take the lowest of priorities when it comes to allocating scarce resources. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-lobsters-feel-pain-when-theyre-boiled-alive/790947/2 "2017-07-10T20:14:41Z")
According to the article, invertebrates like lobsters have a non-reflexive response to harmful stimulus that is dulled when analgesic is applied. The idea that this isn’t pretty good evidence for pain is that there could be many different conscious states that induce changed behavior. That strikes me as pretty unpersuasive, and not worthy of the “well no one knows!” response. I mean, avoidance of pain is probably pretty important to evolutionary success, no? And it’s hard to see how you get there–once you rule out reflexive unconscious responses–without some kind of negative stimulus that the organism wants to avoid having gain. But even if the skepticism over lobster’s mental states were sufficient for that agnosticism about pain, it’s an odd moral calculus that says that in the absence of evidence either way then there are no rules. A more ordinary moral calculus would say that in an area of extreme uncertainty you should proceed with caution. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-lobsters-feel-pain-when-theyre-boiled-alive/790947/3 "2017-07-10T20:30:28Z")
It’s also not just a binary yes-no on whether they feel pain at all. It’s conceivable, for instance, that they feel pain from (say) being bitten (a fate they would have encountered often in their evolution), but that they lack the receptors to detect the damage from extreme heat (a condition not often encountered in their natural environment). Am I saying that this is so? Of course not. Only that it’s conceivable. And it would be a rather difficult thing to measure. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-lobsters-feel-pain-when-theyre-boiled-alive/790947/4 "2017-07-10T21:10:19Z")
From report: "The answer to the question of whether a lower organism can experience pain depends on how we define pain. As a recent article on the topic puts it: “It’s debatable whether the debate will ever be resolved.” I see the report deals with experiments and philosophy as well. I propose this: Keep a lobster in a tank that has its own pool of water from which the lobster can crawl out of. Keep it there a week or so, and observe how much time it spends out of the water. Now heat the water to boiling, and observe how much time the lobster spend in the water. If the lobster seems to no longer care to live in the water, that’s a lobster that ain’t happy with the water. That’s close enough to defining pain in my book. But I make no judgement about cooking lobsters for food. It ain’t an easy moral burden being a carnivore! (Yeah, lobsters are meat, and so is fish!) ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-lobsters-feel-pain-when-theyre-boiled-alive/790947/5 "2017-07-10T21:19:18Z")
Here’s an interesting article on a device for humanely killing lobsters by electrocuting them before boiling. Supposedly it also kills the dangerous bacteria that are the reason for boiling alive, and it’s claimed that the resulting flesh is sweeter and more tender. > **[How to kill a lobster and not feel guilty...](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2719544/How-kill-lobster-not-feel-guilty-Barrister-invents-Crustastun-machine-electrocutes-death-110-volt-shock.html)** > > Barrister Simon Buckhaven, along with the University of Bristol, has created a machine, dubbed the 'Crustastun', which kills lobster by giving it a 110-volt shock. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-lobsters-feel-pain-when-theyre-boiled-alive/790947/6 "2017-07-10T21:26:07Z")
Are there other creatures that are in any way similar? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-lobsters-feel-pain-when-theyre-boiled-alive/790947/7 "2017-07-10T21:35:59Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Are there other creatures that are in any way similar? Obviously there are other crustaceans that people eat, but I’m not aware of any others that must be boiled alive. It does seem odd that lobsters should be unique in this regard. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-lobsters-feel-pain-when-theyre-boiled-alive/790947/8 "2017-07-10T21:39:23Z")
Dr. Rose, in his efforts to dispel the notion of fish pain, states: > [@](#): > > There are many other examples of complex, non-reflexive, even distress-like behaviors that can be performed unconsciously. A person having a night terror, for instance, will show a compelling fear-like display, including a scream, terrified facial expression, elevated heart rate, sweating and dilated pupils, even though they are unconscious and in such deep sleep that they are difficult to awaken. The point is that complex behavioral displays that seem to reflect distress can be purely unconscious – even in humans. It should not be hard to appreciate that the behaviors of which a fish is capable could be unconscious as well. This seems to actually speak against Dr. Rose’s point. Is there doubt that humans experiencing night terrors are undergoing a stressful emotional reaction without being alert and awake? Is it truly impossible to have feelings in your sleep? This doesn’t pass the smell test to me. I’m a sufferer of hypnopompic/hypnogogic hallucinations. Whether this is an alert state, a dream state, or a state fluctuating between the two I cannot answer. My experiences, however, include a combination of experiences that suggest a mix of the two. I say this because external stimuli from the environment (e.g. noises) get wrapped up in the visual experiences. Incidents typically involve the feeling of some invader (burglar) coming into my room and approaching my bed, and being helpless to respond, frozen and unable to move. I will “play asleep” while waiting for them to get right over me so I can attempt to surprise them and fight back. And when I do, I jerk awake and am suffering all the symptoms of fight of flight - elevated heart rate and breathing, panic-striken feeling. I have also, however, had incidents where the setting was not the current room in which I was actually located, but a bedroom from a prior time in my life. In one instance, the walls to the room disappeared and I could see the street. In one instance, I had the perception that a rattlesnake was on my bed coiled around my head and ready to strike at me if I attempted to move. These feelings were entirely real upon awakening and took deliberate efforts to calm down and reassure myself they were not real. It seems to me that one need not be awake to be experiencing real emotions and sensations inside the meat chemistry. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-lobsters-feel-pain-when-theyre-boiled-alive/790947/9 "2017-07-10T21:39:24Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Obviously there are other crustaceans that people eat, but I’m not aware of any others that must be boiled alive. > It does seem odd that lobsters should be unique in this regard. I’m sorry I didn’t communicate myself too clearly. I meant, any other creatures that, due to evolutionary or whatever reasons, lack the receptors to feel certain types of pain? ETA: And I know that lobsters may not even be like this. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-lobsters-feel-pain-when-theyre-boiled-alive/790947/10 "2017-07-10T21:45:57Z")
[Suitable SMBC for this topic.](http://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/life-as-a-berserker) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-lobsters-feel-pain-when-theyre-boiled-alive/790947/11 "2017-07-10T21:54:13Z")
Could you just like, quickly stab it in the brain right before you put it in the water or something? (I know nothing about cooking lobsters) ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-lobsters-feel-pain-when-theyre-boiled-alive/790947/12 "2017-07-10T21:58:35Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Could you just like, quickly stab it in the brain right before you put it in the water or something? (I know nothing about cooking lobsters) Yes, but apparently it’s a difficult skill that’s hard to get right. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-lobsters-feel-pain-when-theyre-boiled-alive/790947/13 "2017-07-10T22:03:50Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Yes, but apparently it’s a difficult skill that’s hard to get right. You mean people actually do this? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-lobsters-feel-pain-when-theyre-boiled-alive/790947/14 "2017-07-10T22:04:54Z")
When you use that method, first you have to give the lobster the finger. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-lobsters-feel-pain-when-theyre-boiled-alive/790947/15 "2017-07-10T22:06:22Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Obviously there are other crustaceans that people eat, but I’m not aware of any others that must be boiled alive. > It does seem odd that lobsters should be unique in this regard. Crabs. I will relate a personal, empirical and disturbing experience I had in the hope of adding further perspective on the subject. I’ve boiled many a lobster and crab alive. I’ve always followed the recommended practice to put them on ice prior to their insertion into boiling liquid and to plunge them in head first in order to kill them instantly. This has always worked fine. Once, however, I made the terrible mistake of using a pot with a circumference that was slightly smaller than the spread of my crab. He was a particularly large and lively fellow despite having been iced for a couple of hours. When I went to plunge him in, he splayed out in a decisive posture. Picture a crab “web” over the opening of the pot. There was no forcing him. Startled, I foolishly tried to insert him in sideways. One of his claws entered the boiling liquid. In my opinion, he reacted in a way that indicated he definitely appreciated the danger… and felt pain. Boy, did he become agitated – and there was no way he was going into that pot. I ended up putting him back on ice for a few moments while I grabbed my largest pot, poured the boiling liquid into it and then brought it back to a boil as quickly as I could. He was plunged properly and suffered no more. He was delicious, but I can’t say I enjoyed the meal. Felt pretty bad about what I put him through and was glad I didn’t have guests. A lot of people do stab them through the brain before plunging. I’ve always found it less bother to just plunge in a decisive manner. They do die instantly when done properly. And I will never again use a boiling vessel smaller than a 23-quart canning pot. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-lobsters-feel-pain-when-theyre-boiled-alive/790947/16 "2017-07-10T22:07:13Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > When you use that method, first you have to give the lobster the finger. Ok, I must be getting whooshed but I have no idea how. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-lobsters-feel-pain-when-theyre-boiled-alive/790947/17 "2017-07-10T22:14:59Z")
First the finger "Fuck you, lobster, I hate you! Then stab it through the skull and throw it in a pot of boiling water. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-lobsters-feel-pain-when-theyre-boiled-alive/790947/18 "2017-07-10T23:45:27Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > [Suitable SMBC for this topic.](http://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/life-as-a-berserker) No, no, that’s about frogs. Lobsters are totally different-- There’s the whole English Channel between them. ---
**Author:** ![bizerta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@bizerta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizerta)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-lobsters-feel-pain-when-theyre-boiled-alive/790947/19 "2017-07-11T17:14:20Z")
Pain is evolution’s way of telling you to go do something else. Every organism has some way of detecting unpleasantness, even if it’s only for a millisecond. Without pain, a carpenter wouldn’t know that the saw was cutting his hand until 3 fingers were missing. So pain is everywhere. The question here is whether the lobster loses its conscience before the unpleasant signal reaches the brain. It’s really kinda moot as the lobster dies within milliseconds. What’s the last thing that goes through a mosquito’s brain when it hits your windshield? A: his butt. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-lobsters-feel-pain-when-theyre-boiled-alive/790947/20 "2017-07-11T17:31:25Z")
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