Do mainstream Christian churches require a civil marriage license for a religious wedding ceremony?

[constanze]

@thelabdude

Hummmmm? You want to live together without getting married, that is mostly fine with the law. But add a religious ceremony and it becomes illegal without a civil license?

Churches can draw up the rules on who they refuse what services any way they like, that doesn’t make it illegal. So if the Church of the Great Wazo says “We only marry you after the civil ceremony” then that’s their right, but not illegal.

If the state decides to honor marriages by the Church of the Great Wazo as legally valid without doing a second civil ceremony, the state gets to demand certain pre-requirements like a marriage permit same as in the civil ceremony. That’s not illegal.

[constanze]

@UDS

Marriage licences are, I think, a uniquely US institution. In some countries, assuming you’re not having a civil wedding, you get married in a church and then deal with the state afterwards, to register your marriage. (This would probably be the position in most ex-British Empire countries, where Anglicanism is mostly found.) In others, you have to have a civil ceremony as well as (if you wish) a religious ceremony. In still others, you have to give prior notice to the state that you are marrying in a church ceremony (and register it afterwards), but you don’t actually need the state’s licence to marry.

Why do you think that? In Germany, you need a permit in order to get married, too. (I’m not sure I’m using the correct technical terms here, esp. since the law differs a bit). When you apply at the civil office to get married, you need a copy of your family book, which is basically a birth certificate (even though you have a valid passport) to confirm that when you were born, your parents were legally married*. Then there’s a long list of requirements depending on where you and your partner are from, how old you are etc. . Then you get the permit that you are eligible, that is, all your paperwork is in order and none of the “no” reasons apply (you are not allowed to marry if you already have a wife; if you and your spouse-to-be are too closely related; …)

With the paperwork, you go and make an appointment for the civil ceremony at the registrars office (Standesamt) or you apply for a permit to be married elsewhere - you want to be married on a boat or while diving or whatever, or in a very romantic place instead of your hometown.

When the registrar offical is finished with the civil ceremony, you are officially married in the eye of the law, and only that way. You get a marriage certificate, which you then present to the church priest for the church wedding.

• This is a hold-over from the days when illegitmate children were second-class citizens; I wish they would do away with it.

[constanze]

This is the German listof requirments for a marriage or registered life-partnership (for homosexuals) for Munich as example.

[Nava]

I don’t know if it’s the same in other countries, but Spanish news channels sure seem to copy each other a lot…

Anyway, a blurb that was all over the news yesterday was the wedding between an Algerian citizen who’s awaiting deportation (his request for asylum has been denied) and his Spanish bride. That wedding did not have civil validity (the celebrant does not have permission to file the civil paperwork), there will be civil paperwork filled but it’s going to involve powers of attorney and be valid from the day of the filing (sometime in September) - not from the day their wedding took place (which would be the case for a celebrant who counted as a civil agent).

Yes, I did get a bunch of parenthesis on sale.