Do masks help prevent the spread of COVID-19?

The Quarantine Zone
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  1. That’s a better point IMO than the one about ‘false sense of security’ risky behavior. I’ve also noticed that, the guy at the Costco tire desk and I had trouble understanding each other especially member number, order number with masks on, and the plexiglass shield they put up. Natural tendency is to get closer, put head to side of shield, and/or pull down the mask and the last, at a good distance, might be least risky.

  2. Curious if there’s a hard fact source on that. Your ‘probably’ seems to imply supposition. If so I’m not sure I’d make the same guess. Supermarkets might explain a pretty small % of new infections and be outnumbered by for example people who simply aren’t paying much attention to the guidelines generally, not particularly at supermarkets but in their socializing, or the disease spreading in small social networks in case of people who are being careful in ‘the wider world’ but not as much in the smaller circle of family and close friends. I wouldn’t make a strong guess though, not having seen any stats which directly answer this. And it’s a big question IMO, whether stores with most people following the guidelines more or less are a major or minor proportion of the ongoing new cases, for example where I live (in NJ right next to NY) where the number of new cases per week at first rapidly declined from the early May peak but now seems stuck or only declining more slowly from ~1/4 of that level.

  3. I see people congregating, leisure or work (car wash guys now that those are open, construction crews, landscape guys planting trees etc) and many have masks. Hard to say though if they get close because they have masks. People work I think because they see no viable alternative, and how eg. do you rapidly towel down a car or plant a big tree without several people getting close? Socializing is closer to purely voluntary, but do these people actually think a mask cancels the need to stand far apart? I am not as sure that’s the reason they are standing close, or that they’d stand farther apart if the public experts reversed themselves a second time (basically) and said ‘don’t wear masks’.

I think you have somewhat of a point, but the degree I’m pretty unsure of. It’s not clear to me the moral hazard effect of masks is more than the basic benefit (of slowing down or stopping some virus laden particles coming from me, if so). Seat belts, airbags, ESC etc on cars have an obvious effect of making people feel less at risk driving so less risk averse, but it’s pretty clear they still help, net, despite that.

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From what I’ve read, the latter is a bit of an overreaction. The aerodynamics around the average speed at which a person moves is such that air molecules (and anything they might carry) tend to get pushed out of the way rather than embedded in clothing. Unless of course you’re traveling through somebody’s gigantic downpour of a sneeze or vicious cough!

It raises the interesting question of what to do if one has a runny nose in allergy season or for some other innocent reason. Masks can be a problem for those people. Not sure what the answer is – maybe a good dose of antihistamines. I fully sympathize with your wife’s position, though – If I were the manager I would have given the cashier some involuntary time off to think things over. This is serious business. The government-run liquor store I was just in today has a set of rules on a large red poster. In addition to the expected ones, the last two were “be kind to one another – we’re all under stress” and something like (paraphrased) “no joking around, especially not about COVID-19”. There was nothing about “cashiers may throw a hissy fit”. I’m always especially thankful to the cashiers, who are almost universally cheerful and helpful, and they really do appreciate it.

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No, because of the issue you mention (and the only surgical masks I have are sterilepak’d in my field kit that I don’t want to break out). Surgical masks are really intended to protect medical personnel from direct fluid contact, and to prevent a surgeon or nurse from coughing directly on a patient but despite their current use by hospitals low on respirators they really cannot protect against either receiving or emitting an aerosolized pathogen.

N95 (and other) respirator masks are designed to be fitted to the face and breathed through. Surgical masks are not intended allow breath through the material and some have an impermeable layer, so I would be cautious about using tape to seal the edges (which would have to be done all the way around to actually form an airtight seal), nor does that seem very comfortable, though it is certainly a way to prevent screwing with the mask. As part of an effort I worked on to develop improvised masks we looked at using tape or adhesive to secure a mask frame but the problem is that it becomes very irritating quickly and/or pops off because we are constantly flexing the cheek and mandible area, so a conformal seal is much better for both comfort and reliable sealing.

Stranger

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As someone on the other side of the cash register I applaud your wife bringing this to the manager’s attention.

Improper mask use IS a problem among my fellow “essential workers”. Most of us are adapting and following the rules but we have a few problems.

The gal who’s face turned bright red and started rashing up within minutes of donning one of the store-issued masks we were able to help with home-made cloth masks - I gave her two of mine and she’d acquired more. So sometimes there are legitimate issues.

On the other hand, we have had problems with people with well-protected chins and uncovered mouths and noses. My company and my management are taking this seriously. We did have to fire someone who absolutely refused to wear a mask

As one of the dwindling pool of old-timers (seriously - between medical leaves, illness, quarantines, and quitting we are having MASSIVE turnover) we can’t help but notice that those of us still here are those complying with the new health rules. Also, we can’t be making our customers sick if we want to stay in business.

We can’t expect our customers to comply with the new rules unless we do ourselves.

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A haven’t really had any problems breathing through the taped-down mask and I didn’t find the tape uncomfortable. It is inconvenient since I can’t just take the mask on and off. I put the mask on at home and don’t take it off until I get back. That’s probably excessive for most people, but I don’t mind taking the extra precautions.

These people are creating a strap to hold a surgical mask tightly to the face to create a better seal. They have a simple version you can make with 3 rubber bands: https://www.fixthemask.com/make-it#3-rubber-bands
The middle rubber band makes a loop around your nose, cheeks and chin, while the two rubber bands on the sides go behind your ears to hold the middle loop to your face. It’s sort of the same principle as taping the edge down, but more convenient since you can easily take it on and off.

Do you think the efficiency of improvised masks would be improved with the harness of the 3 rubber bands? Some fabrics are so porous it probably won’t make a difference, but I would guess that most masks would work better if they could have a better seal.

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Yes, I believe masks help prevent the spread of Covid-19.

I’m stunned that so many people still are not taking Covid-19 seriously.

I understand the need to open the economy and people getting antsy staying home, but it’s not difficult to significantly reduce the risk of infection by wearing a mask, disinfecting hands and keeping social distance. Yet, more than half the people I see (in the news, at the grocery store, and discussing in online local forums) simply are not complying.

I limit my outings to quick trips to the grocery store. I wear a KN-95 mask (available from our local hardware store), disinfect my hands before and after leaving the house and try in vain to stay > 6’ from everybody. Easy peazy.

Yet, idiots abound. They view loosening quarantine as carte blanche to go back to business as usual: no masks, no distancing and clumping together as though they are huge gravity wells. It pisses me off every time one of these [maskless] mouth [and nose] breathers go the wrong way down the clearly marked grocery aisles and passes within a foot of me (sometimes even rubbing against me). I’d feel the same if they were carrying a dirty bomb.

I have 2 at-risk teenage daughters. One is asthmatic and the other has moya-moya disease (a congenital syndrome causing strokes from malformed cerebral arteries). She’s had 3 strokes and 2 major brain revascularization surgeries. Her first stroke was triggered by the flu when she was 15 months old. It left her with a paralyzed hand and foot (thankfully no cognitive impairment). Needless to say, I’m scared stiff of her catching Covid-19. The thought of me bringing home the infection to her from one of these grocery story idiots keeps me up at night.

We’ve certainly been hit over the head with news of the possible dire consequences of this virus, but it apparently has little effect on the actions of many people. Perhaps it is a problem of people not being able to relate to large numbers and sterile mortality-rate statistics.

Maybe they need to be hit over the head with accounts of the 1918 Pandemic complete with deathbed and mass grave photos, and reminded that history, unfortunately, often does repeat itself. This is a good YouTube video of a Great Courses lecture about the Spanish flu. Parts 2 (Spanish flu/Philadelphia) and 3 are worth watching, too.

The Spanish (Kansas) flu started like a lamb with very mild symptoms. People scoffed at it’s first wave (is this even the flu?).

But, then it mutated, as viruses love to do.

The second wave was a killer of unprecedented proportion. It killed more people than all the major wars of the 20th century combined. Estimates of death toll approach 100-million. It was unusual in that it hit people in the prime of their life (20-40yo) the hardest. It was quick and thorough: often entire families would wake up with symptoms and be dead by evening.

It could have been a species extinction event if it cascaded further.

What happened in 1918 could happen in 2020. Don’t fuck with viruses, they’ll always win.

And hell’s bells, why can’t the feds ramp up production of N-95 masks to a level at least somewhat parallel to that of WWII production of war machinery? Covid-19 is a more formidable an enemy than the Nazis.

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Riemann re the impact of wearing masks and seeing others in masks on behavior: I’ll see your anecdotal observations and raise it one! Find me a group of people in a public space in which few to none are currently wearing mask and observe whether or not most of those of the group are staying at least 6 feet socially distanced from each other. Find me a group of people in a public space in which almost all are currently wearing mask and observe whether or not most of those of that group are.

But leaving that discussion and keeping all else the same there is the single biggest impact - individuals vary in how much they spread the germ, and whatever their peak it seems most likely to be in the late presymptomatic phase. A very few appear to be super-spreaders spraying out much more virus than most others do. If that person was masked, even just enough to stop large droplets and to block forceful airflow forward (accepting a poorly fitted mask with leakage mainly up around the nose) the rate of spread would be impacted greatly. How few is that very few? No one knows. The rule of thumb is not so few:

Having those super-spreaders all masked would be huge.

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Very helpful link! Thanks!

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I wanted to note they also have a page with testing data of different kinds of masks and different sealing techniques:

A plain surgical mask did very poorly in the tests because it does not seal very well. To get optimized fit for your face type, they recommended using some cushions as necessary to ensure a good seal when using the rubber bands.

There was one test where the mask was taped to the subject’s face. They found the rubber bands still worked better:

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Ditto. Thank you for posting this!

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I honestly don’t understand the idea that masks don’t affect transmission. Even if I just tie a bandana around my nose and mouth, that means my droplets travel a bit less far. It’s not perfect but it makes a difference, and we can’t all aim for perfect.

Riemann has a point about people thinking that masks are a total solution, but the couple of times I’ve been outside in the last couple of months, it wasn’t the people in masks who were walking close to me, just the opposite. The ones who came close were completely unmasked. It was only a couple of times but for a couple of hours each time due to queuing and in a chemist and a supermarket (with a chemist, which is why I went there) so there were a lot of people.