# Do men really desire smart women? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 19, 2002, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-really-desire-smart-women/104573 "2002-04-19T20:21:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2002, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-really-desire-smart-women/104573/101 "2002-04-22T22:16:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by brainychick \* > \*\*Could be. Who knows? I smile a lot, say hello to everybody, and I generally like talking to people. I’m pretty open about everything, as well as outspoken and straightforward. > \*\* Unfortunately “outspoken and straightforward” often times puts people off, and individuals that exhibit this behavior are usually labled “trouble makers”. Don’t ask me how I know. As I’ve gotten older, I’ve discovered that not every battle is worth fighting and not every wrong is worth correcting. This doesn’t mean that I censor myself quite the contrary, I just think some things are not necessary to address or challenge. ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2002, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-really-desire-smart-women/104573/102 "2002-04-23T00:13:22Z")
I like women who talk like men, too. They sound intelligent. I don’t mean I can hear them, I mean. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2002, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-really-desire-smart-women/104573/103 "2002-04-23T00:22:52Z")
So, **brainychick** , how you doin’? ---
**Author:** ![Neil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/839c29/32.png) [@Neil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neil)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2002, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-really-desire-smart-women/104573/104 "2002-04-23T00:24:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Michael Ellis \* > \*\* > > Have we met? You just described me perfectly (except for the engineering part.) \*\* I know the feeling. (Except I am an engineer.) I figure I’ll be in a coed dorm next year and may have a car to go places off campus (not that there is much) so maybe I’ll have there’ll be more opportunity for me. Or if not, I’ll just stay in my room and play bass like normal and try to capture the elusive Funk. Then I can try to convince girls I’m a lead guitarist; that could work. ---
**Author:** ![Nacho4Sara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Nacho4Sara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nacho4Sara)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2002, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-really-desire-smart-women/104573/105 "2002-04-23T01:46:28Z")
> [@](#): > > I do have the problem of perhaps making too much of my own intelligence, as well as the intelligence, or lack thereof, in others. I think it’s an act of defiance against a culture that seems to value women who are just cute and stupid. > > I’d rather be the kind of woman who is nice to look at and to talk to. I spend time working on both. It certainly seems like you are getting more flak than necessary, and I hate to put myself in the crossfire, but I agree with you here as well. Being smart (book-smart) has always been the one thing I have utter confidence in, the one thing I never doubt. So even now when I do adhere somewhat to societal standards of femininity and gender appropriateness, I rebel against it. At one point in my life I believed that being intelligent was the only thing I had going for me. Now I know I have a lot more to offer, but though I wear make-up and dress femininely and show cleavage, I still feel as though my intelligence is the one constant I can count on, and I refuse to alter because of someone else’s idea of who a woman should behave. I am taking a lot of Poli. Sci. classes right now (I’m majoring in English and Poli. Sci.; law school is my next goal). The classes I take deal very much with discussion and debate, and I almost always have an opinion, and I have qualms about expressing it. I’ve been called a bitch for this, for arguing about what I believe in or for what I know to be true, and for not backing down when I have an argument I believe is important. Does this upset me? It used to, because I couldn’t see how I could reach a compromise between being myself (and henceforth opinionated and vocal) and being feminine in the typical sense. But you know what? I’m nearly 21 - old enough to have an understanding of who I am and what I have to offer. I don’t expect that, having been an opinionated, vocal bitch for 21 years, I’m not going to vary a whole lot from that standard. But I do expect that someone will come along who will be happy with that fact; if not, I really would rather be alone. I don’t think you have to act cute and stupid to get a date. I also don’t think there is anything you need to change about yourself, because I think someone will come along who will be content with your just as you are. None of us are perfect; none of us is an ideal mate. We have qualities that are going to work with qualities someone else possesses, and hopefully we find some sort of balance. However, I will say (as a reformed man-stereotyper myself) that not all men are created equal. It’s easy to paint them with a broad brush to make it seem that though THEY are what’s wrong, but in reality, it’s aways this man and that woman - two people, not two genders. ---
**Author:** ![butter\_pie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aca169/32.png) [@butter\_pie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butter_pie)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2002, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-really-desire-smart-women/104573/106 "2002-04-23T04:23:51Z")
> [@](#): > > I like women who are nuts, they are interesting. Yeah, I think so too. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2002, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-really-desire-smart-women/104573/107 "2002-04-23T06:59:38Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally quoted by brainychick_ > Some of my good friends who are male tell me I don’t “act like a woman,” whatever that means. When pressed, they say that I am not as self-deprecating or deferent to them as they’ve seen women be. They say that I challenge them; they can’t just say the little platitudes or whatever that they usually use. They say that this can be refreshing, but also a little scary, because they believe men are not used to this. I suppose that this is why these men prefer to be friends with me and nothing more, but who knows? I think a lot of men feel threatened by smart women who aren’t afraid to speak their mind. (BTW, I’m not one of them.) Some men feel emasculated when they’re around women who assertively and intelligently express opinions. I may be wrong, but it seems that might be the case with the male friends who said you didn’t “act like a woman.” Don’t feel obligated to dumb yourself down. I’m sure there are many men out there who appreciate a smart woman like you. And if there are any men who are so insecure as to be put off by your intelligence–forget them! It’s their loss! ---
**Author:** ![auntie\_em](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@auntie\_em](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/auntie_em)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2002, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-really-desire-smart-women/104573/108 "2002-04-23T13:52:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Neil \* > **Or if not, I’ll just stay in my room and play bass like normal and try to capture the elusive Funk.** Just remember it’s all on The One. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2002, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-really-desire-smart-women/104573/109 "2002-04-23T14:09:00Z")
Well let me add that I don’t find intelligence to be a deal breaker. (by intelligence I mean a command of a large number of facts, which is how many people look at it) However if a woman is not smart enough to stack the boxes up to reach the bannana then that is something else. I like NICE women. Women who are not mean. A person can argue their point, present their case, and generally stand up for themselves without being mean. (really!) ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2002, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-really-desire-smart-women/104573/110 "2002-04-23T20:33:03Z")
How sad! Here we seem to have a whole bunch of people of various genders/persuasions, many of them unattached, and some of whom may even live in close proximity to each other, who all claim to consider intelligence a major turn-on. And yet, many of them will continue to be lonely, frustrated, and convinced that nobody shares their values. How can we resolve this sad situation? A Doper personals board? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2002, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-really-desire-smart-women/104573/111 "2002-04-23T21:16:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by auntie em \* > \*\* > > Just remember it’s all on The One. 😃 \*\* And The And of Four. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![porcupine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac91a4/32.png) [@porcupine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/porcupine)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2002, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-really-desire-smart-women/104573/112 "2002-04-23T23:13:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eva Luna \* > > And yet, many of them will continue to be lonely, frustrated, and convinced that nobody shares their values. How can we resolve this sad situation? A Doper personals board? 🙂 Isn’t that what MPSIMS is? ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2002, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-really-desire-smart-women/104573/113 "2002-04-23T23:44:53Z")
All people have the same intelligence in the dark.’ All women look the same in the bathtub’ (ann landers?) ---
**Author:** ![Neil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/839c29/32.png) [@Neil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neil)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2002, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-really-desire-smart-women/104573/114 "2002-04-24T00:09:28Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by auntie em_ > **Just remember it’s all on The One.** > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by EasyPhil \* > \*\* > > And The And of Four. 😃 \*\* Yeah, just gotta work on playing the bass in general- only been doing that since November. I happened to think of the One just the other day when I saw Bootsy Collins on a Nike commercial. Hey, maybe I can use the bass to get some booties shakin’… ---
**Author:** ![kumaraka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e68b1a/32.png) [@kumaraka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kumaraka)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2002, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-really-desire-smart-women/104573/115 "2002-04-24T03:12:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eva Luna \* > \*\*How sad! Here we seem to have a whole bunch of people of various genders/persuasions, many of them unattached, and some of whom may even live in close proximity to each other, who all claim to consider intelligence a major turn-on. > > And yet, many of them will continue to be lonely, frustrated, and convinced that nobody shares their values. How can we resolve this sad situation? A Doper personals board? 🙂 \*\* Maybe we’re all so ugly that no amount of intelligence can make us attractive? Just a theory… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Neil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/839c29/32.png) [@Neil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neil)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2002, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-really-desire-smart-women/104573/116 "2002-04-24T05:10:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kumaraka \* > \*\* > > Maybe we’re all so ugly that no amount of intelligence can make us attractive? > > Just a theory… 🙂 \*\* I don’t think so- my third eye is a lovely baby blue. ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2002, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-really-desire-smart-women/104573/117 "2002-04-24T06:29:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Neil \* > \*\* > Yeah, just gotta work on playing the bass in general- only been doing that since November. I happened to think of the One just the other day when I saw Bootsy Collins on a Nike commercial. Hey, maybe I can use the bass to get some booties shakin’… \*\* Here’s a site you should check out: > **[TalkBass.com](https://www.talkbass.com/)** > > The premier online community for bass players. Bass guitar and double bass forums, classifieds, gear reviews, store, and more. Since 1998. I usually use my bass to get botties shake’n. ---
**Author:** ![Waldo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c0e974/32.png) [@Waldo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waldo)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2002, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-really-desire-smart-women/104573/118 "2002-04-24T06:48:31Z")
> [@](#): > > Seems the smart and physically unattractive ones spend lot of time alone(but not by choice). Not so with the not-so-smart and physically beautiful. I doubt that intelligence is the determining factor… Yeah, I know. But I’ve already tried the thing with “getting over” not being that attracted to my date, and it DOESN’T work. The problem often is that smart people, especially guys, are smart but geeky. I have a couple friends at church who seem pretty bright, but I wouldn’t want my (fictional) sister dating, just because they’re so socially awkward. I know I fit in that camp for a long time. ---
**Author:** ![auntie\_em](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@auntie\_em](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/auntie_em)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2002, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-really-desire-smart-women/104573/119 "2002-04-24T12:47:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Neil \* > \*\* > I happened to think of the One just the other day when I saw Bootsy Collins on a Nike commercial. Hey, maybe I can use the bass to get some booties shakin’… \*\* OK, I’ll jump on the hijack (sorry, **brainychick** )… Bootsy Collins on a NIKE commercial??? ---
**Author:** ![lurkernomore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@lurkernomore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lurkernomore)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2002, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-really-desire-smart-women/104573/120 "2002-04-24T13:52:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eva Luna \* > \*\*How sad! Here we seem to have a whole bunch of people of various genders/persuasions, many of them unattached, and some of whom may even live in close proximity to each other, who all claim to consider intelligence a major turn-on. > > And yet, many of them will continue to be lonely, frustrated, and convinced that nobody shares their values. How can we resolve this sad situation? A Doper personals board? 🙂 \*\* Well, my personality just drives them off… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-really-desire-smart-women/104573.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-really-desire-smart-women/104573.md?page=7)