# Do men who call women "females" come off as insulting? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 15, 2006, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-who-call-women-females-come-off-as-insulting/380580 "2006-11-15T21:54:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-who-call-women-females-come-off-as-insulting/380580/21 "2006-11-16T16:36:56Z")
No, it just makes you sound like Ferengi. Footnote 1: In a hospital **dr\_mom\_mcl** once visited, in an attempt at scientific precision, instead of MEN and WOMEN the bathrooms were labelled MALE and FEMALE. One imagines the male washroom and the female washroom getting together and making little baby washrooms. Footnote 2: In many European languages, the equivalents of “male” or “female” aren’t used in a neutral way to refer to people. You won’t have a police report, for example, referring to a “femelle de 21 ans de râce blanche” as you would have one in English referring to a “21-year-old white female.” Instead, it would refer to an “individu de sexe féminin” or simply “une femme” (a woman). There are some idiomatic uses, for example “un beau mâle” (“a handsome male”) meaning “a stud.” I haven’t seen “femelle” used in a similar context, but I haven’t been looking. Similarly, the word “macho” is simply Spanish for “male;” I know of one author who used “hembra” (“female”) to mean “a woman with exaggerated female pride,” but as a joke, more or less. In any case, “mâle/femelle” and “macho/hembra” are mainly used to refer to animals. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-who-call-women-females-come-off-as-insulting/380580/22 "2006-11-16T16:48:08Z")
I’ve noticed this many times, but only in the context of shows like Maury or Jerry Springer, or the aforementioned court shows. I don’t believe I’ve ever heard this usage IRL unless it was said by a police officer or a paramedic. If I did hear it used outside of a professional context, I’d think the same thing I do when I hear it said on t.v. - _What a dumbass_. I can’t put my finger on it, but it seems more ignorant than insulting to my female ears, as if the speaker thinks they’re coming off as well spoken or something (?) I don’t think it’s a coincidence that I’ve only ever heard it coming out of the mouths of society’s lowest common denominators, a la Springer guests. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-who-call-women-females-come-off-as-insulting/380580/23 "2006-11-16T22:46:44Z")
[QUOTE=XJETGIRLX] We have names, you know. 😛 [/QUOTE] Of course you do, but there are several million women whose names I don’t know. For a while, I had a job cleaning up break areas in the plant, and every day I’d politely ask dozens of people to raise their feet so I could sweep under the table. I did that for 6 months before I figured out that lots of women don’t like being called “ma’am.” :smack: There are also men, mostly ex-military, who don’t like being called “sir.” One told me, "I don’t wear a uniform anymore. I was promoted to the rank of ‘mister.’ " :smack: ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-who-call-women-females-come-off-as-insulting/380580/24 "2006-11-16T22:59:47Z")
[QUOTE=featherlou] ( **AskNott** , the only safe term for us Double X’s is “Mangrove Throatwarblers.”) - featherlou, 39, white, female (ha! - see, that usage doesn’t bug me) [/QUOTE] Garsh. Pleased ta meetcha. I never met a Throatwarbler before (be still, mah heart!) I met a manatee amongst the mangroves once. Not that I’m making a comparison. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-who-call-women-females-come-off-as-insulting/380580/25 "2006-11-16T23:20:31Z")
I think it depends entirely on context: “In the local jail they house the males in the west wing and the females in the east wing.” Not insulting. “Excuse me, female, please refresh my beverage.” Insulting. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-who-call-women-females-come-off-as-insulting/380580/26 "2006-11-16T23:26:04Z")
Minor hijack- The one that gets me is when people refer to their female spouses as “the wife” instead of “my wife”. It always feels vaguely like she was a possesion, or rather impersonal. “Females” in that context sounds so impersonal too, as if the speaker is choosing a cold, aloof tone. Female, 39.4 years old. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-who-call-women-females-come-off-as-insulting/380580/27 "2006-11-17T02:14:48Z")
[QUOTE=matt\_mcl] No, it just makes you sound like Ferengi. [/QUOTE] Actually, it makes you sound like _anybody_ on Star Trek. It would be technically and taxonomically incorrect for a human to refer to a member of another species as a “man” or a “woman”. Because they’re not. Those terms are species-specific (is that redundant?) I don’t recall if it was Lursa or B’etor (sp?) (Klingons) in _Star Trek: Generations_ who, bigger than life on the main viewer, said, “Human females are so repulsive!” I have to assume that things like this are a matter of the individual using their own species-appropriate version of “man” or “woman”, and the universal translator rendering it as “male” or “female”. On another note, I’ll just quote Sir Mix-a-lot’s song, “One Time’s Got No Case”" _They had me walk on the line I walked backwards, stopped on a dime My female just reclines Cuz she knows I know the time_ ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-who-call-women-females-come-off-as-insulting/380580/28 "2006-11-17T21:47:01Z")
[QUOTE=AskNott] \ I did that for 6 months before I figured out that lots of women don’t like being called “ma’am.” \ [/QUOTE] The reason “ma’am” bugs me is because it is always the term that customer service people use when telling you that you are wrong and stupid (but not in those words, of ccourse :rolleyes: ). “I’m sorry, **ma’am** , but there is no possible way that any salesperson here told you that,” et freakin’ cetera. ---
**Author:** ![Farmwoman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8dc957/32.png) [@Farmwoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmwoman)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2006, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-who-call-women-females-come-off-as-insulting/380580/29 "2006-11-18T00:02:00Z")
My FIL (83) has only two terms for grown women, and neither of them is ‘woman’. If he walks away from a social/business interaction feeling well-treated and satisfied with the outcome he refers to the woman as “that girl.” If things don’t go so well, like the time the cashier asked to see some ID before accepting his check, she is a FEmale. I don’t think I was ever bothered by that term before the crotchety old bugger came into my life, but now it bugs the hell out of me. ---
**Author:** ![Manatee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/50afbb/32.png) [@Manatee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manatee)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2006, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-who-call-women-females-come-off-as-insulting/380580/30 "2006-11-18T00:49:36Z")
[QUOTE=AskNott] Garsh. Pleased ta meetcha. I never met a Throatwarbler before (be still, mah heart!) I met a manatee amongst the mangroves once. Not that I’m making a comparison. :smack: [/QUOTE] That was YOU?!? ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2006, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-who-call-women-females-come-off-as-insulting/380580/31 "2006-11-18T00:52:57Z")
[QUOTE=Phase42] Actually, it makes you sound like _anybody_ on Star Trek. It would be technically and taxonomically incorrect for a human to refer to a member of another species as a “man” or a “woman”. Because they’re not. Those terms are species-specific (is that redundant?) [/QUOTE] Apparently not - in most cases they used “man” or “woman” to refer to a male or female humanoid of any kind. ---
**Author:** ![Sutremaine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@Sutremaine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sutremaine)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2006, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-who-call-women-females-come-off-as-insulting/380580/32 "2006-11-18T01:16:19Z")
There aren’t too many safe words to use for female individuals of the human species. ‘Woman’ is about the closest thing I’ve got to offer, but that gets corrupted because it’s the word of choice for phrases such as ‘what it means to be a woman’. It doesn’t mean anything except that you have ovaries (or are MtF, or that you self-identify as a woman). Men who have issues with women will have them regardless of the words they use. The attitude of the man mentioned in the OP wouldn’t be any different had ‘women’ or ‘girls’ been the word used. I’d raise an eyebrow if someone I knew kept using the word ‘female’, but if their attitude wasn’t dismissive or hateful I’d stop worrying about it. ---
**Author:** ![1010011010](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/ea666f/32.png) [@1010011010](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/1010011010)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2006, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-who-call-women-females-come-off-as-insulting/380580/33 "2006-11-18T01:27:04Z")
I’ve picked up the habit from the military. I’d wager that kid picked his habit up from the cops, directly or indirectly. On the subject of alien species and sex… I don’t see a very good reason to think “male” or “female” would fare any better at categorizing classes of an alien reproductive cycle than “man” or “woman”. It might lend a false sense of understanding (humans do love their labels), but really wouldn’t be any more, or less, appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2006, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-who-call-women-females-come-off-as-insulting/380580/34 "2006-11-18T04:01:02Z")
I’ve always thought the word “woman” was awkward to say. “Women” gets turned into “wimmen” in my accent, so it’s easier, but “woman” always makes me feel like I’m about to sing that damned song about having cheatin’ on my mind. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2006, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-who-call-women-females-come-off-as-insulting/380580/35 "2006-11-18T05:10:49Z")
[QUOTE=featherlou] The reason “ma’am” bugs me is because it is always the term that customer service people use when telling you that you are wrong and stupid (but not in those words, of ccourse :rolleyes: ). “I’m sorry, **ma’am** , but there is no possible way that any salesperson here told you that,” et freakin’ cetera. [/QUOTE] The reason I often got was, “I’m not old enough to be a ma’am, dammit.” [Quote=AskNott] Garsh. Pleased ta meetcha. I never met a Throatwarbler before (be still, mah heart!) I met a manatee amongst the mangroves once. Not that I’m making a comparison. [/quote] > [@Manatee](#): > > That was YOU?!? Oh, yeah, darlin’. How’d that recipe for stir-fried kelp and limes work out for you? I’m afraid I left out the curry powder. :smack: Some folks may have noticed the terribly obscure Robert Harper reference, “Manatee in the Mangroves.” ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2006, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-who-call-women-females-come-off-as-insulting/380580/36 "2006-11-18T08:06:58Z")
My preference would be for “women” rather than “females” to be used in this context, but my all-time loathed term would be “girls”. Females isn’t as bad, because I’ve heard women talking together refer to “males”, and usually with wry laughter. Female, age 43. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2006, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-who-call-women-females-come-off-as-insulting/380580/37 "2006-11-18T09:33:16Z")
[QUOTE=Sutremaine] ‘Woman’ is about the closest thing I’ve got to offer, but that gets corrupted because it’s the word of choice for phrases such as ‘what it means to be a woman’. It doesn’t mean anything except that you have ovaries (or are MtF, or that you self-identify as a woman). [/QUOTE] I like this. 😃 Welcome to the 21st century, everyone. I never liked the trend toward replacing the plain old words _men_ and _women_ with _males_ and _females_. It sounds too impersonal, officialese, police-blotter language. When I first noticed it starting in the 1980s, I was teaching middle school in the ghetto and it gave me the impression people used it to avoid conflicts over what to call adolescents, when “boys” and “girls” sounded too young and demeaning, while I supposed, not having reached legal age, they were considered too young for “men” and “women.” So it was simpler to use abstract just the facts ma’am descriptors without implying judgments as to manhood or womanhood, which can be loaded concepts. I’m in favor of calling adolescents “men” and “women,” not to speak of adults. It just seems to fit the natural flow of the English language better. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2006, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-who-call-women-females-come-off-as-insulting/380580/38 "2006-11-18T12:38:42Z")
[QUOTE=featherlou] The reason “ma’am” bugs me is because it is always the term that customer service people use when telling you that you are wrong and stupid (but not in those words, of ccourse :rolleyes: ). “I’m sorry, **ma’am** , but there is no possible way that any salesperson here told you that,” et freakin’ cetera. [/QUOTE] When I was just a tot, way back before dirt had been invented, I was taught that ALL women were to be addressed as “Ma’am.” The word served as a universal form of respectful address----it was unthinkable that a man or boy would be disrespectful to a woman. I honestly don’t understand why “Ma’am” is now resented by many women. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-who-call-women-females-come-off-as-insulting/380580/39 "2006-11-19T15:05:54Z")
[QUOTE=matt\_mcl] Apparently not - in most cases they used “man” or “woman” to refer to a male or female humanoid of any kind. [/QUOTE] On the other hand, both Spock and Worf – the former half-human, the latter pretty much raised as one – objected at least once each to being called a “man.” ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2006, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-who-call-women-females-come-off-as-insulting/380580/40 "2006-11-20T04:25:58Z")
[QUOTE=LouisB] When I was just a tot, way back before dirt had been invented, I was taught that ALL women were to be addressed as “Ma’am.” The word served as a universal form of respectful address----it was unthinkable that a man or boy would be disrespectful to a woman. I honestly don’t understand why “Ma’am” is now resented by many women. [/QUOTE] I kinda just told you why “ma’am” is resented by many women. I don’t get called “ma’am” when they’re being polite and friendly to me - I get it when they’re telling me that I’m wrong and stupid. You hear some punk-assed, pimply-faced kid call you an exaggerated “Maaa-aam” when they’ve decided that you’re being a pain in the ass by not just shutting up and going away often enough, and you start not really liking that title. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-who-call-women-females-come-off-as-insulting/380580.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-men-who-call-women-females-come-off-as-insulting/380580.md?page=3)