# Do more people these days believe in literal demons? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 13, 2023, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-more-people-these-days-believe-in-literal-demons/979714 "2023-02-13T14:29:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2023, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-more-people-these-days-believe-in-literal-demons/979714/61 "2023-02-14T02:51:42Z")
I’m sorry…where in the Bible did you find these examples? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2023, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-more-people-these-days-believe-in-literal-demons/979714/62 "2023-02-14T02:55:50Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I’m sorry…where in the Bible did you find these examples? Just some of them: > [@kanicbird](#): > > The kind that people sacrifice their children to De 32:17 > [@kanicbird](#): > > the kind that can ‘reside’ in people Matt 8:28 > [@kanicbird](#): > > teaching demons that lead people astray 1 Tim 4:1 > [@kanicbird](#): > > and some end times stuff. Rev 9:20,16:14 ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2023, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-more-people-these-days-believe-in-literal-demons/979714/63 "2023-02-14T03:06:34Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Did your succubus(which term, btw, came into being about the 14th century) have any physical deformities, like bird-type claws or a snake tail? No not in standard form, typical attractive female who could take on multiple appearances of dream characters but I can’t recall anything non-human in appearance here. Sexually, yes, or just differences in the way they have sex, their form can be more fluid and can combine with a person who likewise enters a more fluid like state both sharing and feeling different aspects of each other. Though this is also a dream state and it didn’t always work that way about the fluid state. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2023, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-more-people-these-days-believe-in-literal-demons/979714/64 "2023-02-14T03:06:45Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > There are some signs that can indicate it, perhaps the clearest would be having something like a feeling of large energy drain (being tired), or feeling of confusion/being overwhelmed, or even feeling being violated after talking with this person, or otherwise likewise engaged with this person. [![](https://static1.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/What-We-Do-in-the-Shadows-Colin-Robinson.jpg) ](https://static1.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/What-We-Do-in-the-Shadows-Colin-Robinson.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2023, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-more-people-these-days-believe-in-literal-demons/979714/65 "2023-02-14T03:13:07Z")
Moderating: This thread had become myopically focused on one person’s experience, @kanicbird’s, with demons as he understands them. Please take this discussion elsewhere if you wish to continue it. The thread topic is whether more people these days believe in literal demons. Let’s stick with that, please. ---
**Author:** ![WellHelloThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9dc877/32.png) [@WellHelloThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WellHelloThere)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2023, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-more-people-these-days-believe-in-literal-demons/979714/66 "2023-02-14T03:13:20Z")
I have to point out that the passage you noted from Deuteronomy makes no mention of sacrificing children. Or any humans at all. It seems to be about making sacrifices to other Gods, besides Yaweh. Eta did not see the mod note before posting. Nevermind. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2023, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-more-people-these-days-believe-in-literal-demons/979714/67 "2023-02-14T03:15:04Z")
Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2023, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-more-people-these-days-believe-in-literal-demons/979714/68 "2023-02-14T03:18:28Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Are there any accounts of mental illness, delusion or scam artists? If you’re asking whether people in Biblical times would have drawn a distinction between mental illness and something like demon possession (maybe not our modern understanding of mental illness, but some form of non-supernatural insanity or craziness, as distinct from demon possession): I don’t know. It’s a good question, but it’s beyond my level of expertise. Probably the most famous account of demon possession in the Bible is the “Gerasene demoniac”: > [@](#): > > They went across the lake to the region of the Gerasenes.[[a](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%205&version=NIV#fen-NIV-24366a)] 2 When Jesus got out of the boat, a man with an impure spirit came from the tombs to meet him. 3 This man lived in the tombs, and no one could bind him anymore, not even with a chain. 4 For he had often been chained hand and foot, but he tore the chains apart and broke the irons on his feet. No one was strong enough to subdue him. 5 Night and day among the tombs and in the hills he would cry out and cut himself with stones. > > 6 When he saw Jesus from a distance, he ran and fell on his knees in front of him. 7 He shouted at the top of his voice, “What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? In God’s name don’t torture me!” 8 For Jesus had said to him, “Come out of this man, you impure spirit!” > > 9 Then Jesus asked him, “What is your name?” > > “My name is Legion,” he replied, “for we are many.” 10 And he begged Jesus again and again not to send them out of the area. > > 11 A large herd of pigs was feeding on the nearby hillside. 12 The demons begged Jesus, “Send us among the pigs; allow us to go into them.” 13 He gave them permission, and the impure spirits came out and went into the pigs. The herd, about two thousand in number, rushed down the steep bank into the lake and were drowned. > > [Mark 5 NIV - Jesus Restores a Demon-Possessed Man - Bible Gateway](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%205&version=NIV) One way to interpret the incident is that the man had a mental illness that manifested itself in his believing himself to be demon-possessed, though this doesn’t explain what happened with the pigs. If you believed in literal demons, you might say that the man’s mental illness was caused by demon possession. I am also reminded of Saul (from the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible), who may have been suffering from depression or some similar ailment. > [@](#): > > 14 Now the Spirit of the Lord had departed from Saul, and an evil[[a](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Samuel+16%3A14-23&version=NIV#fen-NIV-7610a)] spirit from the Lord tormented him. > > 15 Saul’s attendants said to him, “See, an evil spirit from God is tormenting you. 16 Let our lord command his servants here to search for someone who can play the lyre. He will play when the evil spirit from God comes on you, and you will feel better.” > > [1 Samuel 16:14-23 NIV - David in Saul’s Service - Now the - Bible Gateway](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Samuel+16%3A14-23&version=NIV) I don’t know what “an evil spirit from the Lord” (or whatever the original Hebrew was) means, but it makes more sense to me to interpret it as something like depression rather than something supernatural. As for “scam artists”: _maybe_ Simon Magus? > **[Simon Magus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Magus)** > > Simon Magus (Greek Σίμων ὁ μάγος, Latin: Simon Magus), also known as Simon the Sorcerer or Simon the Magician, was a religious figure whose confrontation with Peter is recorded in the Acts of the Apostles. The act of simony, or paying for position, is named after Simon, who tried to buy his way into the power of the Apostles. > According to Acts, Simon was a Samaritan magus or religious figure of the 1st century AD and a convert to Christianity, baptised by Philip the Evangelist. Simon later clash... I don’t know whether, in the Biblical account in Acts, we’re supposed to think of him as a scam artist or as someone who had genuine magical powers. ---
**Author:** ![WellHelloThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9dc877/32.png) [@WellHelloThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WellHelloThere)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2023, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-more-people-these-days-believe-in-literal-demons/979714/69 "2023-02-14T03:20:13Z")
I would totally participate in a thread that was about encounters with demons. If Kanicbird would care to create it, and maybe some sympathy for somebody with an… atypical worldview would be in order. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2023, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-more-people-these-days-believe-in-literal-demons/979714/70 "2023-02-14T03:20:30Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > > [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > > > Because I frankly cannot fathom how one can simultaneously believe in the christian god as traditionally understood _and_ demons capable of possessing humans. > > [There are numerous accounts in the gospels of demon-possession and Jesus driving out demons.](https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=demon&version=NIV) That the bible might include passages that are apparently at odds with the traditional (although perhaps I should have said “prevailing” or “orthodox” for clarity) understanding of god’s nature is merely a restatement of the problem as I see it. I’m not saying present day christians get their views on demonic possession from nowhere (although certainly some of it is from non-canonical sources), only that I cannot see how they can believe in such thing on the one hand–in the bible or not–and yet believe that the christian god is, for instance, extraordinarily powerful (way more powerful than the devil or his legions) and extraordinarily good (maybe even _all_ good). ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2023, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-more-people-these-days-believe-in-literal-demons/979714/71 "2023-02-14T03:22:36Z")
What _is_ “the problem as you see it”? Is it just an aspect of the “[problem of evil](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil)” (which would still be a problem without the demons), or something else? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2023, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-more-people-these-days-believe-in-literal-demons/979714/72 "2023-02-14T13:15:00Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > 1. If this is a real phenomenon, why is it happening? I am here going to elaborate, addressing this in the more mundane meaning of the “real phenomenon” being that of _people convinced of demons as a clear and present danger._ Rather than of demons themselves. As mentioned in my earlier answer I do believe OP is seeing an increase in visibility and a loss of timidity on the part of those who so stand. Now, sure, the self-reinforcing nature of social networks is part of why it becomes a louder voice, but… OP mentions: > [@RickJay](#): > > I was gobsmacked by this, for I had never heard a person express such an opinion. I was raised Catholic and went to Catholic schools, and the existence of demons was not raised as a thing. This was in 1986. IMO for Western “mainstream” religiosities the mid-20th century period was a Time Of Embarassment about what would seem like “primitive”, “mystical” beliefs. The Established Mainstream Protestants had very early on bailed out on much of that as “old superstitions” and never mind the large number of Jewish people who were realy secularist in their view of the universe. A large segment of the RCC kind of walked a line in between, and especially after such things as _The Exorcist_ turned the concept into something sensationalistic it became Something We Do Not Talk About. But: that left a wide open flank for the fundamentalist types or old-school factions who **did** reaffirm that there **was** an ongoing spirit-plane battle. Who in the face of the “liberal” believers walking away from that notion, felt they had to become louder and more insistent about it. Many here may have been only familiar to the political side of the “battle” but within the harder core of those groups the idea that it IS the actual legions of Hell in action stayed there. Jack Chick was not just making up his HAWHAWHAW devils for funsies, he truly believed this represented something that was happening. Now, as mentioned elsewhere upthread, the popular belief in entities from another plane that may influence the living is widespread well beyond our western culturally-Christian concepts of angels/devils. Call them spirits, fae, djinn, yakshas, etc. they are a pervasive element in human cultures. Even the abrahamic religions with their supreme monopoly deity were not able to suppress the notion that these other entities were afoot, so instead they sort of officialized them into angels and demons and made them minions of Big G and Big S. (As mentioned in the late 20th century New Agers appropriated the notion of the “guardian angel” to speak of “helper angels”, itself a whole other story…) So a lot of people who, seeing things happen the world they don’t like or understand, would be inclined to think “come on there’s got to be _some actual power_ causing this”, would be very glad to hear preachings that confirm that indeed that IS the case, there ARE powers from beyond that work upon us to our detriment, _and you need not be ashamed to say you believe that._ **So: There may be no more people (proportionately) who believe in literal evil spirits than in OP’s younger days, but there are probably more who will not be ashamed to openly proclaim they do.** ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2023, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-more-people-these-days-believe-in-literal-demons/979714/73 "2023-02-14T18:04:35Z")
I would also add that belief in demons doesn’t necessarily have to come with a truckload of other crazy beliefs and irrationality. I have a good friend who is a Presbyterian minister. He seems in many respects like a regular guy, with a surprisingly broad range of pop culture interests - we first bonded over Tarantino movies and he used to review anime. He has children with various mental health difficulties for whom he accepted the medical model and got them treatment and medication. He’s a conservative on the Libertarian side but rejects Trump as un-Christlike. However, he takes the Bible quite literally and believes demons are real. He has expressed such when talking about my Pentecostal history, suggesting that Pentecostal people dabble in the occult. I don’t know how the subject came up but he mentioned that he was thinking about taking his son to see a Tool concert, but changed his mind when he learned one of the band members was actively trying to summon a specific demon. And it was clear from our conversation that he didn’t mean, “so the guy is a total whack job,” he meant, “So we’d better not go to a concert in case a demon shows up.” It blows my mind a little. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2023, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-more-people-these-days-believe-in-literal-demons/979714/74 "2023-02-14T19:12:30Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > I’m Jewish so take this with a grain of kosher salt- I thought kosher salt came in _flakes_. Off to do some remedial bingeing of Rachael Ray vids, I guess. > [@DocCathode](#): > > But in the world where the Holocaust happened, who needs demons to explain evil? C’mon, who wants to believe he can be an asshole without help? ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2023, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-more-people-these-days-believe-in-literal-demons/979714/75 "2023-02-14T19:25:23Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I thought kosher salt came in _flakes_. Sigh… how do you not understand it’s just an often-used expression with a Jewish twist? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2023, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-more-people-these-days-believe-in-literal-demons/979714/76 "2023-02-14T19:29:16Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > > > I thought kosher salt came in _flakes_. > > Sigh…how do you not understand it’s just an often-used expression with a Jewish twist? I dunno. How do _you_ not understand that I was making a joke? A Dad joke, if you will. 'Cos I’m a Dad. **kaylasDAD**. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2023, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-more-people-these-days-believe-in-literal-demons/979714/77 "2023-02-14T19:45:45Z")
Because you added this. > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Off to do some remedial bingeing of Rachael Ray vids, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2023, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-more-people-these-days-believe-in-literal-demons/979714/78 "2023-02-14T19:55:38Z")
And no one who said that could possibly be anything but completely serious. ---
**Author:** ![abcdefghij](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/43a26b/32.png) [@abcdefghij](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abcdefghij)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2023, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-more-people-these-days-believe-in-literal-demons/979714/79 "2023-02-15T09:48:26Z")
You mean there are people who believe in the literal existence of Rachel Ray? ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2023, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-more-people-these-days-believe-in-literal-demons/979714/80 "2023-02-15T13:53:19Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I don’t know how the subject came up but he mentioned that he was thinking about taking his son to see a Tool concert, but changed his mind when he learned one of the band members was actively trying to summon a specific demon. And it was clear from our conversation that he didn’t mean, “so the guy is a total whack job,” he meant, “So we’d better not go to a concert in case a demon shows up.” They could go see Travis Scott… > **[Travis Scott's Astroworld tragedy is inspiring rampant 'satanic ritual'...](https://www.insider.com/travis-scott-viral-astroworld-festival-satanic-ritual-conspiracy-theories-explained-2021-11)** > > Numerous conspiracy theories baselessly claiming that Travis Scott's Astroworld show was a "satanic ritual" have spread online. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-more-people-these-days-believe-in-literal-demons/979714.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-more-people-these-days-believe-in-literal-demons/979714.md?page=5)