# Do Muslim Males Get Circumcised? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 15, 2017, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-muslim-males-get-circumcised/801663 "2017-11-15T03:18:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-muslim-males-get-circumcised/801663/21 "2017-11-15T14:49:01Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > Er… Yes. Muslims are the largest group of people in the world who’ve been cut; followed by Americans; then Jews. > Most the rest of us not part of these religions are just amazed. There are health benefits to male circumcision, and I’ve heard claims that many women prefer their partners to be circumcised. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-muslim-males-get-circumcised/801663/22 "2017-11-15T15:15:07Z")
The other thing about Islamic Male Circumcision is that it isn’t aways done at the infant stage. In some societies, it’s sort of a right of passage for adolescent boys. I’m not up on all the details, so I’ll let someone who is Muslim come in and fill those in. ---
**Author:** ![am77494](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d2c977/32.png) [@am77494](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/am77494)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-muslim-males-get-circumcised/801663/23 "2017-11-15T15:26:43Z")
Is there a name for this line of reasoning which a lot of religious minded people use ? For example : 1. Muslims/Jews - Halal/Shechita is found to be humane by some scientific studies so it reinforces our belief. 2. Hindus / Buddhists - Meat has been found to be bad for health by some scientific studies so it reinforces our belief in vegetarianism. On the flip side 1. Muslims/Jews/Hindus/Buddhists - Don’t care if scientific studies find homosexuality to be natural. It’s our belief and we are gonna always think of it as unnatural. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-muslim-males-get-circumcised/801663/24 "2017-11-15T15:36:05Z")
> [@am77494](#): > > Is there a name for this line of reasoning which a lot of religious minded people use ? For example : > > 1. Muslims/Jews - Halal/Shechita is found to be humane by some scientific studies so it reinforces our belief. > 2. Hindus / Buddhists - Meat has been found to be bad for health by some scientific studies so it reinforces our belief in vegetarianism. > > On the flip side > > 1. Muslims/Jews/Hindus/Buddhists - Don’t care if scientific studies find homosexuality to be natural. It’s our belief and we are gonna always think of it as unnatural. Confirmation bias? Subjective validation, maybe… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-muslim-males-get-circumcised/801663/25 "2017-11-15T15:38:09Z")
> [@am77494](#): > > Is there a name for this line of reasoning which a lot of religious minded people use ? For example : > > 1. Muslims/Jews - Halal/Shechita is found to be humane by some scientific studies so it reinforces our belief. > 2. Hindus / Buddhists - Meat has been found to be bad for health by some scientific studies so it reinforces our belief in vegetarianism. > > On the flip side > > 1. Muslims/Jews/Hindus/Buddhists - Don’t care if scientific studies find homosexuality to be natural. It’s our belief and we are gonna always think of it as unnatural. Confirmation bias. That’s when Catholics get all biased after they receive the sacrament or Confirmation. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-muslim-males-get-circumcised/801663/26 "2017-11-15T17:46:10Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Do you have a cite for the case of males, per that last sentence. I’m on my phone, so I hope this works: > **[Encyclopaedia of Islam](https://books.google.com/books?id=bYtmAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA125&lpg=PA125&dq=circumcision%2Bin%2Bpre-islamic%2Bmiddle%2Beast&source=bl&ots=yv06DY8Ni4&sig=PbWZZMfoEewdYlmERYSTDlJammg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwje_P7Xj8HXAhUM6CYKHSs3CrUQ6AEIgQEwEQ)** > > The Encyclopedia of Islamic Civilization and Religion provides scholarly coverage of the religion, culture and history of the Islamic world, at a time when that world is undergoing considerable change and is a focus of international study and debate.... Ritual circumcision was practiced among some peoples of the Middle East before the coming of Islam. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-muslim-males-get-circumcised/801663/27 "2017-11-15T18:13:43Z")
The Ancient Hebrews were supposed to have copied the practice, for males, from the even ancienter Egyptians. Allegedly the latter feared the sand getting places. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-muslim-males-get-circumcised/801663/28 "2017-11-15T19:49:56Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > I’m on my phone, so I hope this works: > > [Encyclopaedia of Islam - Google Books](https://books.google.com/books?id=bYtmAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA125&lpg=PA125&dq=circumcision+in+pre-islamic+middle+east&source=bl&ots=yv06DY8Ni4&sig=PbWZZMfoEewdYlmERYSTDlJammg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwje_P7Xj8HXAhUM6CYKHSs3CrUQ6AEIgQEwEQ) > Ritual circumcision was practiced among some peoples of the Middle East before the coming of Islam. Most Muslims don’t live in the Middle East, so I’m not sure where you’re going with that. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-muslim-males-get-circumcised/801663/29 "2017-11-15T20:35:55Z")
My dad had a lot of recurring rashes and other problems because he wasn’t circumsized. The area under the foreskin collects sweat, stays moist and yeast loves to grow there. The doctor strongly recommended dad get circumsized. Let’s just say it’s a bit challenging for a man in his mid-thirties. :eek: It took awhile before he was wearing tight underwear again. A baby is fine the next day. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-muslim-males-get-circumcised/801663/30 "2017-11-15T21:45:29Z")
> [@am77494](#): > > Is there a name for this line of reasoning which a lot of religious minded people use ? For example : > > 1. Muslims/Jews - Halal/Shechita is found to be humane by some scientific studies so it reinforces our belief. > 2. Hindus / Buddhists - Meat has been found to be bad for health by some scientific studies so it reinforces our belief in vegetarianism. > > On the flip side > > 1. Muslims/Jews/Hindus/Buddhists - Don’t care if scientific studies find homosexuality to be natural. It’s our belief and we are gonna always think of it as unnatural. Is it really true that “a lot of people” use that reasoning? I’m not too familiar with the other groups, but I am fairly knowledgable about Orthodox Judaism. I can’t remember ever hearing an Orthodox person appeal to scientific knowledge to justify Jewish law, and I have on many occasions heard them explicitly caution against doing so, due to the risk of falling into the obvious logical fallacy you mention. More liberal Jews like myself, of course, do believe we should reject traditional beliefs and practices when they conflict with scientific knowledge, and so, for example, no longer have a problem with homosexuality. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-muslim-males-get-circumcised/801663/31 "2017-11-15T22:20:39Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Most Muslims don’t live in the Middle East, so I’m not sure where you’re going with that. But Islam is a religion that originated in the Middle East. Circumcision has cropped up in a few locations over time. One of them is Northeast Africa/Middle East, where a lot of groups practiced foreskin removal for men, and various degrees of FGM. Another locus for circumcision is in Australia, where it seems to have been mostly if not exclusively done on males, and at times taken to extremes like subincision. But it’s the religions of the Middle East that have transported the custom to locations where it’s not native. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-muslim-males-get-circumcised/801663/32 "2017-11-15T22:22:41Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The doctor strongly recommended dad get circumsized. Let’s just say it’s a bit challenging for a man in his mid-thirties. :eek: It took awhile before he was wearing tight underwear again. > > A baby is fine the next day. No, the baby is not “fine” the next day. The thing is, the baby can’t explicitly tell you his penis hurts, he’s not expected to go to work or really do anything other than eat, poop, and cry, and it’s easy to diminish or ignore discomfort or pain in non-verbal people. True, infants do recover faster than adults from this procedure, but it takes more than just one day. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-muslim-males-get-circumcised/801663/33 "2017-11-15T22:30:44Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > Is it really true that “a lot of people” use that reasoning? I’m not too familiar with the other groups, but I am fairly knowledgable about Orthodox Judaism. I can’t remember ever hearing an Orthodox person appeal to scientific knowledge to justify Jewish law, and I have on many occasions heard them explicitly caution against doing so, due to the risk of falling into the obvious logical fallacy you mention. More liberal Jews like myself, of course, do believe we should reject traditional beliefs and practices when they conflict with scientific knowledge, and so, for example, no longer have a problem with homosexuality. Some Christians (Catholics mostly) rely on “natural law theory” as the basis of their sexual ethics. Thomas Aquinas certainly did. Unfortunately some of the scientific data he relied on (birds being sexually monogamous for example) is now known not to be the case. ---
**Author:** ![Dave.B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9f8e36/32.png) [@Dave.B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave.B)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-muslim-males-get-circumcised/801663/34 "2017-11-15T23:59:45Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Bolded part sure does mention religion. Even so, I think everybody knew perfectly well what he meant. If you really have to nitpick, I guess you win, well done you! ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-muslim-males-get-circumcised/801663/35 "2017-11-16T00:06:45Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > No, the baby is not “fine” the next day. The thing is, the baby can’t explicitly tell you his penis hurts, he’s not expected to go to work or really do anything other than eat, poop, and cry, and it’s easy to diminish or ignore discomfort or pain in non-verbal people. > > True, infants do recover faster than adults from this procedure, but it takes more than just one day. This. I used to perform circumcisions on newborns and was one of the few people in my area to do pudendal blocks for anesthesia. And I assisted on a few adult circumcisions in my career. Babies who have the blocks act much more comfortable and less stressed that those without them, but all circumcised newborn boys are crankier than their non-circumcised counterparts for 3 to 4 days. Imagine having to urinate through and on a swollen, sliced up glans (which has some of the densest concentrations of sensory nerves of any place on the body). Back when I did the procedure, there was a strong cultural imperative (outside of religion) in many families to have it done. I advised all the parents that the evidence of long-term benefit was not that strong and that the procedure didn’t need to be done. Some declined to have it done after hearing that, but frankly more were absolutely shocked to hear it wasn’t required by health authorities. And most opted for it so the boys would “look like their daddies”. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-muslim-males-get-circumcised/801663/36 "2017-11-16T00:19:35Z")
But do they de-claw their cats? ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-muslim-males-get-circumcised/801663/37 "2017-11-16T01:11:08Z")
Well, back in the day people used to routinely take out various bits — such as tonsils and appendixes — on a preventative hygienic basis of magical thinking, and although it may, repeat _may_, have been safer than an old lady with shakey hands using a rusty sharp tin-lid to make a girl-baby into a woman, the health benefits were fairly minimal. People just like doing things to other people because _reasons_, often moral reasons. Also, medical instruments from the 1820s to the 1950s were _fearsome_. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-muslim-males-get-circumcised/801663/38 "2017-11-16T02:12:27Z")
> [@Dave.B](#): > > Even so, I think everybody knew perfectly well what he meant. If you really have to nitpick, I guess you win, well done you! Yaaaay!! > [@aceplace57](#): > > My dad had a lot of recurring rashes and other problems because he wasn’t circumsized. The area under the foreskin collects sweat, stays moist and yeast loves to grow there. I’m so sorry you had to experience that. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-muslim-males-get-circumcised/801663/39 "2017-11-16T02:24:49Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Most Muslims don’t live in the Middle East, so I’m not sure where you’re going with that. Given that Islam originated in the Middle East, I’m not sure why you think a connection wouldn’t be relevant. Although that cite seems to link the tradition in Islam to that in Judaism, which obviously predated Islam. From [Wiki:](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision) > [@](#): > > Evidence suggests that circumcision was practiced in the Arabian Peninsula by the 4th millennium BCE, when the Sumerians and the Semites moved into the area that is modern-day Iraq.[79] The earliest historical record of circumcision comes from Egypt, in the form of an image of the circumcision of an adult carved into the tomb of Ankh-Mahor at Saqqara, dating to about 2400–2300 BCE. They cite: Doyle D (October 2005). “Ritual male circumcision: a brief history”. The journal of the Royal College of Physicians of Edinburgh. 35 (3): 279–285. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-muslim-males-get-circumcised/801663/40 "2017-11-16T04:31:43Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > No, the baby is not “fine” the next day. The thing is, the baby can’t explicitly tell you his penis hurts, he’s not expected to go to work or really do anything other than eat, poop, and cry, and it’s easy to diminish or ignore discomfort or pain in non-verbal people. > > True, infants do recover faster than adults from this procedure, but it takes more than just one day. Yes, it takes a couple of days for an infant to recover. Having seen both “traditional” Jewish circumcisions and a “surgical procedure”, I can also say that the traditional method is faster and less traumatic for the infant. But still takes a couple of days to heal from. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-muslim-males-get-circumcised/801663.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-muslim-males-get-circumcised/801663.md?page=3)