# Do 'nice guys' ever find women who will accept them? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 23, 2016, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482 "2016-05-23T20:06:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/301 "2016-05-31T03:49:09Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > Actually, scratch “picking up girls” and replace “finding love”. > > I don’t know how to find love. I do know something about falling head first into love without trying. But I’m not sure how you replicate that in any kind of consistent way. \*\* nods \*\* I know what it’s like to crave it, to seek it, to be girl-crazy due to anticipation of the possibilities. Uh huh. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/302 "2016-05-31T03:51:34Z")
> [@Quasimodal](#): > > Really? How long does “love” thrive without dates, gifts, anniversaries, activities, etc… which require money? But it doesn’t have to be a lot of money - not in the long term. Sure, you might want to go large on a second date (doing it on a first might put too much pressure on her) but moderately priced restaurants, movies, walks are as good or better than the Ritz. If you don’t enjoy each other without distractions, you might as well give it up, since I can assure you after 38 years of marriage that it doesn’t succeed the way dating does. Gifts? Valentines Day, birthday, anniversary if you make it that long. If money is an issue, I’m sure you can find something she likes which is affordable. Someone looking at the price tag is a bad sign. We don’t do tons of gifts for each other, though we can afford to. It is more good ideas, not quantity. That’s even before we got into the getting rid of stuff mode. > [@](#): > > Usually the latter with affection. But I’ve always backed off when given that indicator. Usually though that’s not good enough and breakup city is around the corner because “I” have already crossed the line. I mean problem solving, is that still a thing? I thought people are supposed to be pre-packaged to perfect in relationships (sarcasm). That’s too bad. Is she the bionic boyfriend type - “we can make him better.” People are who they are. If someone can’t accept that, it is a bad sign. > [@](#): > > I’ve had my share of sex. It’s great. But man has it come with a price in my life. You probably have more books than sexual encounters. Actually, it is close. Don’t let anyone tell you that marriage leads to a loss of interest in sex. Right now, in fact, I don’t have enough bookcase space to buy a lot more books, so the books are falling behind. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/303 "2016-05-31T03:58:06Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > Oh, totally. > > Tangentially related, and something that they never taught me in the Hollywood School of Romance: > > For me, in practice, my most successful relationships have been with people that I wasn’t all that keen on to begin with. “She’s OK, whatever, I guess I’ll see how this goes.” Listen to him, people. I met my wife when she was visiting her friend at my college, a friend who I had randomly dated that summer. I asked her to go ice skating with me (free date) mostly to keep her from being dragged to listen to my friend play violin in a Gilbert and Sullivan play. I kind of liked my wife but I don’t think it was even at crush stage - until we got to know each other that night. I did go out with girls I was head over heels infatuated with, and it never went all that well. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/304 "2016-05-31T04:07:02Z")
[QUOTE=Martian Bigfoot (replying to Quasi;19369127] Not to be a dick, but it’s because you have an agenda. … Your intention is getting laid. [/QUOTE] You’re still doing it. “It” being harboring a reductionistic attitude towards other people of the male sex and their possible motivations. That plus expressing a… how to put this… it’s sort of an attitude that seeking sex isn’t very nice, which is still OK (to you) if a person is upfront and overt about it, but that there’s something kinda disgusting if we express it in any other way, …which still sort of pans out to a belief that there’s something at least suspect, if not downright disgusting, about wanting sex to happen. Let’s play with that a bit. Because I recognize myself in that too. I said previously that to be accused of just wanting sex felt like getting a bucket of sewage throw into my face — and why would I feel that way unless I, too, believed that in some fashion it was creepy and disgusting to just want sex? Do I believe that? \*\* ponders \*\* Not really. I’m not a prude. I don’t think I harbor a bunch of judgmental attitude towards people who just want sex. Aha (though): I don’t want people who just want sex to disguise it as a more comprehensive interest in romance, and maybe for the same reason YOU don’t? Because I have been a seeker of romance, someone who wanted a girlfriend, a relationship. And anything that erases the distinction is a threat to me. Go at it your own way, whoever you are, but don’t conflate “sex for the sake of sex” with wanting to fall in love and have a girlfriend, from either direction – don’t tell me I’m just a horny person who wants to get laid, and also don’t put on that you are passionately fascinated with girls if you actually just want sex. You be honest about what you want, and don’t be questioning my honesty. That in turn conjures up a batch of questions for the guys who _do_ just want sex. Do you think guys like me disapprove of you? (Well, OK, maybe I have tended to express a lot of joy and satisfaction that I’m not like you, but that’s really not disapproval). Aside from reacting to what you think we think of you, are you guys contemptuous of us, and if so, what for? Do you disbelieve that we want what we say we want? Do you think we’re spinning this story from bullshit in order to impress girls? So why do you think the girls want to hear this? Why do you think WE would think the girls want to hear this? Do you believe the girls? Why them and not us? Or do you question their honesty too? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/305 "2016-05-31T04:11:53Z")
> [@Quasimodal](#): > > Nope I don’t buy attention. But whatever choice I make (to buy a gift, dinner…or not) I am scrutinized. That’s the problem. Being micro-analyzed for ill-intent. You see, I was once given advice…if someone gives you a compliment, the best thing you can do is simply say “thank you”. What has happened to that? Why is it if I want to treat someone well…it’s not met by a “thank you” but by a “wait…what is his real agenda?” Cue a later conversation about the relationship not working. This is what I mean, my intention is good, but it’s not viewed that way. > > It’s sooo frustrating. Why bother? I’ve had sex, good sex. It’s off the bucket list. I’m independent. Why should I care? Let a woman chase me for a change. Where were you meeting these women? I’ve never run into even one like this when I was dating, though I got married in grad school and any women after money steered clear of me. Not that I doubt you. My wife’s best friend rejected truly nice guys for a guy with a Rolls - who dumped her as soon as she expressed interest in going to the next level. She eventually married a very nice guy but too late for kids. If anyone had ever said to me that I should spend more money on her it would have been the last time she ever heard from me. As for agenda, if someone is playing the “you are trying to steal my virtue” games in the 21st century, split. Geez, I bet you can make a fortune writing a bestiary of women you have known. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/306 "2016-05-31T04:16:36Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > Let’s play with that a bit. Because I recognize myself in that too. I said previously that to be accused of just wanting sex felt like getting a bucket of sewage throw into my face — and why would I feel that way unless I, too, believed that in some fashion it was creepy and disgusting to just want sex? Do I believe that? \*\* ponders \*\* Not really. I’m not a prude. I don’t think I harbor a bunch of judgmental attitude towards people who just want sex. Aha (though): I don’t want people who just want sex to disguise it as a more comprehensive interest in romance, and maybe for the same reason YOU don’t? Because I have been a seeker of romance, someone who wanted a girlfriend, a relationship. And anything that erases the distinction is a threat to me. Go at it your own way, whoever you are, but don’t conflate “sex for the sake of sex” with wanting to fall in love and have a girlfriend, from either direction – don’t tell me I’m just a horny person who wants to get laid, and also don’t put on that you are passionately fascinated with girls if you actually just want sex. You be honest about what you want, and don’t be questioning my honesty. I’d think a woman who sees a nice normal dating relationship only in the framework of the guy wanting sex must not have enough self assurance and self confidence to imagine that the guy likes her for her brains and personality, not just for her vagina. Which is sad. And someone to stay away from. I bet the guy who just does want sex is used to getting rejected, and it doesn’t bother him. Don’t know anybody like that so it is pure speculation. ---
**Author:** ![AngelSoft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelsoft/32/440_2.png) [@AngelSoft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngelSoft)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/307 "2016-05-31T04:28:50Z")
One thing I’ve noticed mentioned here more than a few times is the number of men listing off their good qualities and actually listing social activities. Church, fitness classes, volunteering, etc But at the same time they say they never meet a girl that they’re interested in and who’s interested in them back. If you actually do put yourself out there in social situations, and do things where women who share your interests will be there as well, yet you complain that you can never find anyone…it makes me think that your standards are just way too high. Now I’m not saying that you should just settle for the first pair of boobs that looks your way but really, there’s no way it’s JUST that women don’t like you cause you’re a ‘nice guy’. I saw it mentioned earlier about how often times ‘nice guys’ will consider various women as undesirable for small, petty reasons. And I really think that’s what it comes down to for many guys. They’ve gotten it in their mind that the perfect woman for this is THIS exact way and any deviation from that is an instant deal breaker. And if they should find that perfect woman and she doesn’t reciprocate their feelings, well then, how could she be so shallow as to not realize how great of a catch they are? Those women are shallow for not seeing the true beauty inside, but if you aren’t attracted to a woman because of some ‘flaw’, well that’s just because you know what you want and aren’t going to settle for less. This really is just my own personal observation. I might be completely off and maybe just seeing things that aren’t there but really, think about it. If you see an attractive woman with a less than attractive man, often times you talk about how wonderful it is that she sees the beauty inside of him. But if you see an attractive man with a less than attractive woman, then he must be dating her out of pity or some other convoluted reason.That might be opening up a whole other can or worms right there though. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/308 "2016-05-31T04:36:06Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > That plus expressing a… how to put this… it’s sort of an attitude that seeking sex isn’t very nice, which is still OK (to you) if a person is upfront and overt about it, but that there’s something kinda disgusting if we express it in any other way, …which still sort of pans out to a belief that there’s something at least suspect, if not downright disgusting, about wanting sex to happen. You know, I think you’re right. I do feel that way about it. I could deny that, or qualify it, or explain it away, or put my fingers in my ears and go “lalala”, but screw all that. This isn’t the place for pussyfooting around, I’m here for the therapy. You’re not wrong. You have a point. I feel that way about male sexuality, specicifically. I think that there is something very disgusting about it. ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/57b2e6/32.png) [@Quasimodal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodal)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/309 "2016-05-31T04:38:40Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > You’re still doing it. “It” being harboring a reductionistic attitude towards other people of the male sex and their possible motivations. That plus expressing a… how to put this… it’s sort of an attitude that seeking sex isn’t very nice, which is still OK (to you) if a person is upfront and overt about it, but that there’s something kinda disgusting if we express it in any other way, …which still sort of pans out to a belief that there’s something at least suspect, if not downright disgusting, about wanting sex to happen. > > Let’s play with that a bit. Because I recognize myself in that too. I said previously that to be accused of just wanting sex felt like getting a bucket of sewage throw into my face — and why would I feel that way unless I, too, believed that in some fashion it was creepy and disgusting to just want sex? Do I believe that? \*\* ponders \*\* Not really. I’m not a prude. I don’t think I harbor a bunch of judgmental attitude towards people who just want sex. Aha (though): I don’t want people who just want sex to disguise it as a more comprehensive interest in romance, and maybe for the same reason YOU don’t? Because I have been a seeker of romance, someone who wanted a girlfriend, a relationship. And anything that erases the distinction is a threat to me. Go at it your own way, whoever you are, but don’t conflate “sex for the sake of sex” with wanting to fall in love and have a girlfriend, from either direction – don’t tell me I’m just a horny person who wants to get laid, and also don’t put on that you are passionately fascinated with girls if you actually just want sex. You be honest about what you want, and don’t be questioning my honesty. > > That in turn conjures up a batch of questions for the guys who _do_ just want sex. Do you think guys like me disapprove of you? (Well, OK, maybe I have tended to express a lot of joy and satisfaction that I’m not like you, but that’s really not disapproval). Aside from reacting to what you think we think of you, are you guys contemptuous of us, and if so, what for? Do you disbelieve that we want what we say we want? Do you think we’re spinning this story from bullshit in order to impress girls? So why do you think the girls want to hear this? Why do you think WE would think the girls want to hear this? Do you believe the girls? Why them and not us? Or do you question their honesty too? Yeah and to add on to this critique, guess what? The last woman I dated seriously was on and of for nine months with no sex. I liked her and while I wanted sex, I was ok to wait. So explain that! I must have some hidden agenda right? ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/57b2e6/32.png) [@Quasimodal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodal)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/310 "2016-05-31T04:46:28Z")
So timely event tonight. Asked a woman out, she rejected me as she has a boyfriend, but wants to be friends. You know there’s nothing wrong with that. There are things wrong though when this is preceded by extended gazes, conversations that seem really intensely focused with intent to connect rather than relaxed and casual, flirty physical contact, and knowing glances from her friends that she seems interested. Seriously! Why the mixed signals? I honestly find this funny because I feel like I’m living the Seinfeld life!!! I don’t think I’m bad at reading social cues. So WTF. It’s criminal. Back to being a nice guy with a sexual agenda I suppose…or is it trying to hard to be bad boy…with a sexual agenda? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/311 "2016-05-31T04:52:35Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > You know, I think you’re right. I do feel that way about it. I could deny that, or qualify it, or explain it away, or put my fingers in my ears and go “lalala”, but screw all that. This isn’t the place for pussyfooting around, I’m here for the therapy. You’re not wrong. You have a point. > > I feel that way about male sexuality, specicifically. I think that there is something very disgusting about it. Disgusting about what? Seeking sex? That’s sort of the point of life. ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/57b2e6/32.png) [@Quasimodal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodal)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/312 "2016-05-31T04:54:18Z")
> [@AngelSoft](#): > > One thing I’ve noticed mentioned here more than a few times is the number of men listing off their good qualities and actually listing social activities. Church, fitness classes, volunteering, etc But at the same time they say they never meet a girl that they’re interested in and who’s interested in them back. If you actually do put yourself out there in social situations, and do things where women who share your interests will be there as well, yet you complain that you can never find anyone…it makes me think that your standards are just way too high. Now I’m not saying that you should just settle for the first pair of boobs that looks your way but really, there’s no way it’s JUST that women don’t like you cause you’re a ‘nice guy’. > > I saw it mentioned earlier about how often times ‘nice guys’ will consider various women as undesirable for small, petty reasons. And I really think that’s what it comes down to for many guys. They’ve gotten it in their mind that the perfect woman for this is THIS exact way and any deviation from that is an instant deal breaker. And if they should find that perfect woman and she doesn’t reciprocate their feelings, well then, how could she be so shallow as to not realize how great of a catch they are? Those women are shallow for not seeing the true beauty inside, but if you aren’t attracted to a woman because of some ‘flaw’, well that’s just because you know what you want and aren’t going to settle for less. > > This really is just my own personal observation. I might be completely off and maybe just seeing things that aren’t there but really, think about it. If you see an attractive woman with a less than attractive man, often times you talk about how wonderful it is that she sees the beauty inside of him. But if you see an attractive man with a less than attractive woman, then he must be dating her out of pity or some other convoluted reason.That might be opening up a whole other can or worms right there though. I honestly find people who take care of themselves, and are fit and confident, to be pretty attractive. I’ve asked out many types. But I do value these above qualities. I take care of myself, I feel I’d like a partner who values the same things. After that benchmark it’s do we have fun? And then common values and problem solving skills. Actually often you wonder if money is a factor. Seriously, I may be wrong, but isn’t that the societal cliche? Beautiful women meets ugly man who can provide? I try to overcome the “petty” reasons. I know they aren’t worth dwelling on. I’m interested in lots of people. Seems I end up on a date every 3-4 weeks. I don’t have problems meeting people. But having them stick around is a lot harder. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/313 "2016-05-31T05:01:40Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I’m learning the guitar, took a ballroom dance class, I curl, lived in Europe for three months, built a robotic Etch-A-Sketch, sailed on a tall ship to the West Indies, and make the best oatmeal cookies and apple pie you will have in your entire life. Even if you leave out the preceding stuff, I’m worth dating just for the baked goods. If I weren’t married and was bi-curious I’d try your cookies. ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/57b2e6/32.png) [@Quasimodal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodal)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/314 "2016-05-31T05:05:33Z")
Yeah, my other traits include: Professional Guitarist Dancer of all social styles Runner, Yoga, Weight training Traveller (India, Europe) ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/315 "2016-05-31T05:09:17Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > If I weren’t married and was bi-curious I’d try your cookies. It’s my secret recipe. I keep it cleverly hidden under the lid of every container of Quaker Oats in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/316 "2016-05-31T05:23:14Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Disgusting about what? Seeking sex? That’s sort of the point of life. Screw life. Life is disgusting. There’s too much sex going on in it. 😉 Look, sex is fine, in principle. I just don’t like men, and their penises. I think they’re aggressive, brutish, blunt, stupid, hairy, and they smell bad. I think men are basically failed women. I feel sorry for heterosexual women. I feel even more sorry for gay men. Gay women have hit the jackpot. I do make exceptions. [Andrew Bird](http://www.austinchronicle.com/binary/0e4d/music_roundup20.jpg). [Johnny Depp](http://images.iimg.in/c/54326f25e3eed4b6ad9459e4-4-501-0-1412591400/google/jack-sparrow-fluch-der-karibik-wiki-jack-sparrow-johnny-depp.img?crop=1). [[URL=“http://24.media.tumblr.com/1a3f0db52a9935c81826e9c3c1acb7a9/tumblr\_mhd2w9Z9xV1qf1aoao1\_250.gif”]Tony Leung, ca 1994](http://pxhst.co/avaxhome/bb/d9/001cd9bb_medium.png). [Marcello Mastroianni, ca. 1960](http://www.eyeglassboy.com/images/image_739449.jpg). [Stuart Murdoch](http://dearscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Belle-and-Sebastian-4.jpg). I mean, holy cow, I’m not made of stone. They’re obviously hot. Also, my friend Joe. He’s irresistible. There’s a trend there. The sensitive eyes. A certain soulfulness. And… that undefinable something, you know? I dunno. Whatever it is, it makes my heart pound a bit faster. (BTW, for anyone not keeping track: I’m a man.) ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/317 "2016-05-31T05:27:57Z")
> **[6 Harsh Truths That Will Make You a Better Person](https://www.cracked.com/blog/6-harsh-truths-that-will-make-you-better-person)** > > You're going to hate hearing this. My only defense is that this is what I wish somebody had said to me around 1995 or so. Anyone posted this yet? > [@](#): > > No, your brain jumps to that conclusion so you have an excuse to write off everyone who rejects you by thinking that they’re just being shallow and selfish. I’m asking what do you offer? Are you smart? Funny? Interesting? Talented? Ambitious? Creative? OK, now what do you do to demonstrate those attributes to the world? Don’t say that you’re a nice guy – that’s the bare minimum. Pretty girls have guys being nice to them 36 times a day. The patient is bleeding in the street. Do you know how to operate or not? > > “Well, I’m not sexist or racist or greedy or shallow or abusive! Not like those other douchebags!” > > I’m sorry, I know that this is hard to hear, but if all you can do is list a bunch of faults you don’t have, then back the fuck away from the patient. There’s a witty, handsome guy with a promising career ready to step in and operate. > > Does that break your heart? OK, so now what? Are you going to mope about it, or are you going to learn how to do surgery? It’s up to you, but don’t complain about how girls fall for jerks; they fall for those jerks because those jerks have other things they can offer. “But I’m a great listener!” Are you? Because you’re willing to sit quietly in exchange for the chance to be in the proximity of a pretty girl (and spend every second imagining how soft her skin must be)? Well guess what, there’s another guy in her life who also knows how to do that, and he can play the guitar. Saying that you’re a nice guy is like a restaurant whose only selling point is that the food doesn’t make you sick. You’re like a new movie whose title is This Movie Is in English, and its tagline is “The actors are clearly visible.” ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/318 "2016-05-31T05:49:57Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > Screw life. Life is disgusting. There’s too much sex going on in it. 😉 > > Look, sex is fine, in principle. I just don’t like men, and their penises. I think they’re aggressive, brutish, blunt, stupid, hairy, and they smell bad. I think men are basically failed women. > > I feel sorry for heterosexual women. I feel even more sorry for gay men. Gay women have hit the jackpot. > > I do make exceptions. [Andrew Bird](http://www.austinchronicle.com/binary/0e4d/music_roundup20.jpg). [Johnny Depp](http://images.iimg.in/c/54326f25e3eed4b6ad9459e4-4-501-0-1412591400/google/jack-sparrow-fluch-der-karibik-wiki-jack-sparrow-johnny-depp.img?crop=1). [[URL=“http://24.media.tumblr.com/1a3f0db52a9935c81826e9c3c1acb7a9/tumblr\_mhd2w9Z9xV1qf1aoao1\_250.gif”]Tony Leung, ca 1994](http://pxhst.co/avaxhome/bb/d9/001cd9bb_medium.png). [Marcello Mastroianni, ca. 1960](http://www.eyeglassboy.com/images/image_739449.jpg). [Stuart Murdoch](http://dearscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Belle-and-Sebastian-4.jpg). I mean, holy cow, I’m not made of stone. They’re obviously hot. > > Also, my friend Joe. He’s irresistible. > > There’s a trend there. The sensitive eyes. A certain soulfulness. And… that undefinable something, you know? I dunno. Whatever it is, it makes my heart pound a bit faster. > > (BTW, for anyone not keeping track: I’m a man.) Hey I’m not sure what creatures who like men are thinking. That’s not my concern. I just need to know, how it is to fulfill what they want. Unapologetically. But you do offer an interesting take on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![ShinyAeon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@ShinyAeon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShinyAeon)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/319 "2016-05-31T05:59:40Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > Look, sex is fine, in principle. I just don’t like men, and their penises. I think they’re aggressive, brutish, blunt, stupid, hairy, and they smell bad. > > (BTW, for anyone not keeping track: I’m a man.) You have realized that you’ve absorbed one of your major cultural myths. I’m right there with you, buddy. It bites. Have a pint. If it helps, the whole thing with “Men are brutish sex-crazed animals/Women are pure and spiritual” is kind of recent, historically speaking. It wasn’t too long ago (a couple hundred years, I think) that _women_ were considered the sex-crazed lustful creatures, while men were rational and spiritual beings who could be perfectly in control of their libidos…if only all them lustful women weren’t everywhere sendin’ out sex vibes, like what Eve did to that poor Adam feller. Ah, cultural stereotypes. A well that never runs dry. So, now that you’ve had this epiphany, can you give AHunter3 an apology for repeatedly saying all his longing for a real relationship is nothing but desperate sex drive? That’s another cultural myth about men, and not fair for you to assume about him just because he’s male. \ ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/320 "2016-05-31T06:06:43Z")
> [@ShinyAeon](#): > > So, now that you’ve had this epiphany, can you give AHunter3 an apology for repeatedly saying all his longing for a real relationship is nothing but desperate sex drive? **AHunter3** , I’m sorry. Now, **ShinyAeon** , can you apologize to me for quoting the first part of my post, but not the rest of it? The man-hating opening is kind of balanced out by the blatant homoerotica of the next bit, see? There’s a structure and a point to that. What you did there was like quoting: “Ask not what your country can do for you”, and then stopping. It’s a bit unfair to the rest of the quote. Besides, I’m not talking about cultural stereotypes. If I wanted to talk about cultural stereotypes, I’d do that. I’m telling you how I feel inside. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482.md?page=17)