# Do 'nice guys' ever find women who will accept them? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 23, 2016, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482 "2016-05-23T20:06:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/401 "2016-06-01T22:22:58Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > On the other hand, straight young men who do musical theatre tend to find themselves in an environment with a lot of dateable women and little competition, where socially awkward isn’t unusual. In a similar vein, a guy who can afford it should take up horseback riding. If the shows my daughter went to (and her barn) are any indication riders at the low level at least are 95% women. And many of them have money. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/402 "2016-06-01T22:38:55Z")
Reading these what is sexy posts make me think we’re back in “somebody jump my bones” mode. Is playing guitar for someone sexier than just playing guitar? Is a discussion of Roman history with someone who is interested sexier than a lecture? Maybe it would be best to do things kind of for the other person - in a non-threatening way of course. Just a song, not a love song until the time is right. So, maybe put down the guitar and pick up a vacuum cleaner? ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/403 "2016-06-01T22:43:43Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > So, maybe put down the guitar and pick up a vacuum cleaner? Beep. Wrong answer. For this thread. Consider who we’re talking to here: “Nice guys”. “Nice guys” are already vacuuming the floors all day long. Then they get pissed off when the other person doesn’t find it arousing. ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/404 "2016-06-01T22:45:33Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > Because I’m not sure how to ask that without sounding accusatory. I’m gambling that **Robot Arm** can handle it, and maybe even get a bit riled up, so he’ll think about it and answer. I like talking with him. I have a little bit of a crush. > > If the answers are “yes” and “yes”, then he has what you might consider a dating world equivalent of a First World problem. Just wondering if he really thinks that, or if it’s [this thing](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19365475&postcount=200). And if it is, he might be in need of a reality check. > > Cool. Good answer. > Do you actually know which parts of that list made you successful? Do you think the history degree had much to do with it? Maybe it did. I’m thinking it was the marathons, but your wife might be of a different opinion. > > I don’t mean that in a bad way. I’ll use it as data. So thanks. > > I’m noticing that for me, understanding and replicating success isn’t all that easy. Not just other people’s, but my own. I’m looking back at my earlier relationships, and it’s tricky to figure out why my partners liked me. Which is why I haven’t really talked about that, I haven’t figured it out yet. Analyzing failures and disasters in my life seems easier. > > I can tell you why a plane crashed: There was bomb on it. But I’m finding it harder to explain how and why it was flying in the first place. > > Of course, I could ask my exes. Maybe I should send out some emails. I’ll get back to you. My wife said she was attracted to me immediately, in a “who’s that?” sort of way. She’d never seen me perform, so that’s out. She did notice the long hair. When she found out I had a motorcycle she asked if she could have a ride. “Anytime”, I said. “How about tomorrow?” was the reply. She got my number and surprised me by calling the next day and actually showing up. It was fall, so I wasn’t dressed in a way that would show off my runner’s physique. I doubt my history degree had anything to do with it, but if we hadn’t both been librarians we never would have met. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/405 "2016-06-01T22:59:08Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > I’m noticing that for me, understanding and replicating success isn’t all that easy. Not just other people’s, but my own. I’m looking back at my earlier relationships, and it’s tricky to figure out why my partners liked me. Which is why I haven’t really talked about that, I haven’t figured it out yet. Analyzing failures and disasters in my life seems easier. > > I can tell you why a plane crashed: There was bomb on it. But I’m finding it harder to explain how and why it was flying in the first place. > > Of course, I could ask my exes. Maybe I should send out some emails. I’ll get back to you. I think, again, that you might be trying to view it as “This one time, I wore a blue shirt and I ordered spaghetti and Doris said she liked me, therefore when I want to attract a woman I should wear a blue shirt and order spaghetti and look for a woman named Doris.” (Obviously (I hope it’s obvious), I’m exaggerating.) ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/406 "2016-06-01T23:01:42Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > Beep. Wrong answer. For this thread. > > Consider who we’re talking to here: “Nice guys”. > > “Nice guys” are already vacuuming the floors all day long. Then they get pissed off when the other person doesn’t find it arousing. I think you’re using your own definition of “nice guy” at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/407 "2016-06-01T23:07:19Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I think you’re using your own definition of “nice guy” at this point. Really? I don’t think the participants in the thread so far are suffering primarily from not vacuuming enough floors. I’m not. I can vacuum your floors like a champ. And then expect you to like me. And when you don’t, I get frustrated and pissed off. Or, well, I’ve done that in the past. Here’s my nice guy resume: Vacuuming floors. Why don’t girls like me? Isn’t that the conversation we’ve been having? Actually, maybe that is just me. But it sounds like other men in this thread, too. I guess it’s up to everyone to decide how well it fits them. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/408 "2016-06-01T23:16:14Z")
If anyone in this thread thinks they just need to do sexy things and the chicks will go wild, I regret I’ve wasted my time. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/409 "2016-06-01T23:53:26Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > Because I’m not sure how to ask that without sounding accusatory. I’m gambling that **Robot Arm** can handle it, and maybe even get a bit riled up, so he’ll think about it and answer. I like talking with him. I have a little bit of a crush. But the question doesn’t make sense given what **Robot Arm** said. I guess I appreciate the more agnostic position (“I don’t know what set of traits will help you acquire a SO”) than the prescriptive approach (“Learn the guitar, dude. Chicks totally dig the guitar.”) I know the latter isn’t your exact phrasing, but that’s how your advice came across. I thought **Robot’s** post was a lot more thoughtful, so I don’t really get your urge to rile him up. > [@](#): > > If the answers are “yes” and “yes”, then he has what you might consider a dating world equivalent of a First World problem. Just wondering if he really thinks that, or if it’s [this thing](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19365475&postcount=200). And if it is, he might be in need of a reality check. I think **Robot Arm** deserves an award for not getting riled up at this. > [@](#): > > Really? I don’t think the participants in the thread so far are suffering primarily from not vacuuming enough floors. I’m not. I can vacuum your floors like a champ. And then expect you to like me. And when you don’t, I get frustrated and pissed off. Or, well, I’ve done that in the past. > > Here’s my nice guy resume: Vacuuming floors. Why don’t girls like me? > > Isn’t that the conversation we’ve been having? Actually, maybe that is just me. But it sounds like other men in this thread, too. I guess it’s up to everyone to decide how well it fits them. None of the guys in this thread have mentioned their housekeeping abilities or said anything as mindless as “I vacuum floors! Why don’t girls like me?” (In fact, I’d wager that more than a few guys with relationship difficulties probably only vacuum on the rare occasion when company comes over. ) I mean, I’m not saying that there aren’t guys out there who are probably thinking along these lines. But I don’t think it is at all useful to reduce all “nice guys” to this caricature. Cuz Jebus knows…if I ever got interested in playing the “game”, I’d certainly have “doesn’t mind cleaning up the house” at the top of my criteria. It sho as hell would be higher in the list than “plays the guitar sexily\*”. [sup]\*nope, you’re never going to live this down.[/sup] ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/410 "2016-06-02T00:14:38Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > [sup]\*nope, you’re never going to live this down.[/sup] Ouch. But that’s acceptable. I have no expectation of living down this entire thread. But, look, let’s not argue. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong. That’s fine. > [@monstro](#): > > None of the guys in this thread have mentioned their housekeeping abilities or said anything as mindless as “I vacuum floors! Why don’t girls like me?” Fine. I’m exaggerating. Besides, I don’t actually mean vacuuming literally. If you’re vacuuming in a relationship-related way, you’re probably already in a relationship, so whatever. I have nothing against vacuuming, one way or the other. I’m talking about this: > [@Quasimodal](#): > > Here’s my nice guy resume: > > Fully employed elementary school teacher: spend 5-10k a year on my school kids. Middle class income. > Blood Donor > Church Goer > Donate to charities > Fit: Can run 10km, do yoga, weights etc > Visit my family every week. > Donate time to my hobbies and interests with volunteering. I’m wondering what your response is to that post. ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/411 "2016-06-02T00:24:45Z")
Hey Monstro, I’ll play guitar well for anybody, but I only play it sexily for my wife. Nope, I won’t tell Dopers how I do, it. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/412 "2016-06-02T00:33:16Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > If anyone in this thread thinks they just need to do sexy things and the chicks will go wild, I regret I’ve wasted my time. Is it okay to say: “If I do [thing], it makes it more likely that more women will like me”? As a way to improve my life and dating success? And then try to think about what the [thing] might be? Or does that entire class of statements need nuking? I’ll nuke them, if I have to. I’m just not sure if I understand why, if that is the case. Is doing anything at all instrumentally in order to improve my romantic life either wrong, immoral, or just doomed to failure? Is it OK to think about the things I do, and then consider their effect on other people’s perception of me? Is it OK to say “I happen to play the guitar, and that makes it more/less/neutral likely that some women will like me?” Or: “I happen to donate blood, and that makes it more/less/neutral likely that some women will like me?” Or is the problem something else? Should I just not think about why some women like me, some don’t, and that it would be nice to increase the percentage of women that do? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/413 "2016-06-02T00:50:14Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > I’m wondering what your response is to that post. From **Quasimodal’s** description, I get a picture of a guy with a secure job he’s obviously passionate about, who cares for his community and his physical health, and who nurtures his creative and spiritual self. I see a guy who has a number of positive qualities (much more positive than most “nice guys”, by the way). Some of them are attractive (yoga, passionate about teaching and doing good in the community). Others don’t do anything for me, and a couple are turn-offs. But the things I find turn-offs (visiting family every week and going to church) would be attractive to someone else–especially an older woman whose tired of bros and adventure-seekers. Are they enough to make someone jump his bones? Of course not. But neither is “plays guitar sexily”. You could come up with any list to describe yourself, and it’s still going to leave a lot to the imagination. Now the blood donor thing is a strange one to mention, but I’m guessing (hoping?) he doesn’t have this on his [match.com](http://match.com) profile. The thing is, I’ve been following **Quasimodal’s** story for a while. It doesn’t seem like his problem is finding women to date–the typical “nice guy” complaint. He’s not frustrated because no one is giving him any attention. He’s frustrated because the attention doesn’t evolve into something more substantial. That’s why I’m not getting why people are beating him over the head with the standard advice given to “nice guys”. And I really doubt he feels entitled to a relationship because of the things he listed. It’s just that he works so hard on self-improvement (probably following the kind of advice presented in this thread) and it’s not panning out. ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/414 "2016-06-02T00:52:24Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > Is it okay to say: “If I do [thing], it makes it more likely that more women will like me”? As a way to improve my life and dating success? And then try to think about what the [thing] might be? > > Or does that entire class of statements need nuking? I’ll nuke them, if I have to. I’m just not sure if I understand why, if that is the case. > > Is doing anything at all instrumentally in order to improve my romantic life either wrong, immoral, or just doomed to failure? > > Is it OK to think about the things I do, and then consider their effect on other people’s perception of me? > > Is it OK to say “I happen to play the guitar, and that makes it more/less/neutral likely that some women will like me?” > > Or: “I happen to donate blood, and that makes it more/less/neutral likely that some women will like me?” > > Or is the problem something else? > > Should I just not think about why some women like me, some don’t, and that it would be nice to increase the percentage of women that do? Maybe not increase the percentage that like you as much as put yourself in a position to meet those who do. How, you say? Beats the heck out of me. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/415 "2016-06-02T01:01:42Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > Is it okay to say: “If I do [thing], it makes it more likely that more women will like me”? As a way to improve my life and dating success? And then try to think about what the [thing] might be? > > Or does that entire class of statements need nuking? I’ll nuke them, if I have to. I’m just not sure if I understand why, if that is the case. I don’t speak for **jsgoddess** , but I’m kinda reminded of a scene from _The Hustler_: > [@](#): > > [Fast Eddie is bothered because Bert called him a born loser] > > Fast Eddie: Cause, ya see, twice, Sarah… once at Ames with Minnesota Fats and then again at Arthur’s, in that cheap, crummy pool room, now why’d I do it, Sarah? Why’d I do it? I coulda beat that guy, coulda beat ‘im cold, he never woulda known. But I just hadda show ‘im. Just hadda show those creeps and those punks what the game is like when it’s great, when it’s REALLY great. You know, like anything can be great, anything can be great. I don’t care, BRICKLAYING can be great, if a guy knows. If he knows what he’s doing and why and if he can make it come off. When I’m goin’, I mean, when I’m REALLY goin’ I feel like a… like a jockey must feel. He’s sittin’ on his horse, he’s got all that speed and that power underneath him… he’s comin’ into the stretch, the pressure’s on ‘im, and he KNOWS… just feels… when to let it go and how much. Cause he’s got everything workin’ for 'im: timing, touch. It’s a great feeling, boy, it’s a real great feeling when you’re right and you KNOW you’re right. It’s like all of a sudden I got oil in my arm. The pool cue’s part of me. You know, it’s uh - pool cue, it’s got nerves in it. It’s a piece of wood, it’s got nerves in it. Feel the roll of those balls, you don’t have to look, you just KNOW. You make shots that nobody’s ever made before. I can play that game the way… NOBODY’S ever played it before. > > Sarah Packard: You’re not a loser, Eddie, you’re a winner. Some men never get to feel that way about anything. I think the idea is that it’s less about the details of exactly what activity you pursue, but that you pursue it with dedication, passion, and skill. On the other hand, Fast Eddie is talking about how he lost all his money and got his thumbs broken, and Sarah wound up killing herself, so be careful what lessons you draw. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/416 "2016-06-02T01:05:55Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I guess I appreciate the more agnostic position (“I don’t know what set of traits will help you acquire a SO”) than the prescriptive approach (“Learn the guitar, dude. Chicks totally dig the guitar.”) I know the latter isn’t your exact phrasing, but that’s how your advice came across. I thought **Robot’s** post was a lot more thoughtful, so I don’t really get your urge to rile him up. Well, that was more or less exactly what I said, so it’s fine for you to read it that way. It shows that you’re reading for comprehension. I’ve been saying in it about sixteen different ways for a while now. I’m just still not sure what is wrong with saying it. Is the problem: It’s wrong, chicks don’t? So it’s simply unhelpful advice. Is the problem: Calling women ‘chicks’? I don’t actually do that, so I want a pass on that one. Well, except for that once, just now. Sorry about that. But now I’m digressing… Is the problem: If I’m so clueless that I don’t really see the problem, you can’t possibly explain it? Here’s your more agnostic approach again: “I don’t know what set of traits will help you acquire an SO.” Great. But is it helpful? As advice, it amounts to: “I don’t know.” I’m at least suggesting an activity. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/417 "2016-06-02T01:25:18Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > Fine. I’m exaggerating. Besides, I don’t actually mean vacuuming literally. If you’re vacuuming in a relationship-related way, you’re probably already in a relationship, so whatever. I have nothing against vacuuming, one way or the other. I know you didn’t mean it literally. But I was trying to make a point regardless. If a guy tells me he’s nice, I don’t know what to do with that. I know way too many annoying, unattractive people who are also “nice”. But if I were to find out that this “nice guy” keeps a spotless house and that he also cooks a mean lasagne and just loves making peanut butter cookies (complete with crisscross fork marks), suddenly I have a better picture in my head. And it’s a positive one. At the very least, I know I don’t have a manchild on my hands. Now, a guy sounds incredibly clueless if he whines “I make great peanut butter cookies! Why can’t I get a date?” But I don’t think he’s crazy for wondering why his domesticity isn’t more of a draw for the ladies. Because that is certainly appealing to both lazy-ass and overworked modern women like myself. Maybe if “nice guys” bragged about their vacuum cleaning and cooking skills more, and talked less about their sensitivity and church-going, they’d get more play. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/418 "2016-06-02T01:26:00Z")
Sometimes I get the feeling that suggesting certain kinds of activities is acceptable: > [@Dangerosa](#): > > On the other hand, straight young men who do musical theatre tend to find themselves in an environment with a lot of dateable women and little competition, where socially awkward isn’t unusual. > [@Voyager](#): > > In a similar vein, a guy who can afford it should take up horseback riding. If the shows my daughter went to (and her barn) are any indication riders at the low level at least are 95% women. And many of them have money. That’s fine, right? Musical theater, horseback riding. And some not: Guitar, motorcycle riding. Is it worth it looking for a trend or a pattern? 'Cause I do see one, tentatively. ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/419 "2016-06-02T01:40:48Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > Sometimes I get the feeling that suggesting certain kinds of activities is acceptable: > > That’s fine, right? Musical theater, horseback riding. > > And some not: > > Guitar, motorcycle riding. > > Is it worth it looking for a trend or a pattern? 'Cause I do see one, tentatively. Guitar, motorcycle, but my job is elementary school librarian (when my wife and I met I was a children’s librarian at a public library). No wonder a lot of women didn’t know what to think of me. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/420 "2016-06-02T01:48:19Z")
OK, here’s what I’ve got: Guitar, motorcycle riding: Traditionally masculine. Not acceptable to suggest. Or at least suspect. Musical theater, horseback riding (at least in the particular context it was mentioned in), vacuuming: Traditionally feminine. Acceptable to suggest. The wider implications are melting my mind a little bit. You guys can probably see them already. That, combined with the rest of the thread, is leading me to a conclusion of sorts. And it’s not one I expected or came into this thread with. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482.md?page=22)