# Do 'nice guys' ever find women who will accept them? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 23, 2016, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482 "2016-05-23T20:06:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/41 "2016-05-24T07:49:17Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Nah, they’re attracted to all kinds except the kind that’s stronger than them in any fashion. Maybe, but I thought a key part of the stereotype was that they’re always the shoulder to cry on, etc. They have to put those “nice guy” skills to use in some fashion. Otherwise, you’re just talking about general-purpose creeps. ---
**Author:** ![txst16](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ed655f/32.png) [@txst16](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/txst16)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/42 "2016-05-24T08:29:52Z")
If the sense of protection is solely a females basis on choice of mate then consider these thoughts … 1. Has she considered the alternative?.. dogs are great security. 2. Is she looking for a GOOD guy or a NICE guy or a STRONG guy?.. there is a definite difference in each individually. 3. The males aware of this evolutionary truth are better searching for the female needing protection? 4. If she is looking for protection then how NICE a guy is matters none; thats a sacrifice one makes in this particular situation… most likely she will go for the ass hole who is just as likely the wimp as a nice guy having been passed by. Even so, an ass hole that turns out to be a wuss was most likely chosen over a nice guy fit to serve these protection needs (this is shown by Hollywood in decades of romantic films). 5. Many NICE people are just as mean at times as those who are more often so. If the intention here is to seek out a female mate its best to be the person you want to be or the person they want you to be. Ask yourself what life you want and what significance does this choice place over any/all life goals… Go from there. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/43 "2016-05-24T08:32:05Z")
Help me understand something: If evolutionary physiology is real, why isn’t evolutionary psychology? Do only bodies evolve but not brains/minds? ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/44 "2016-05-24T09:04:49Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Nah, they’re attracted to all kinds except the kind that’s stronger than them in any fashion. Heck, scratch even that qualification, in my experience. They’re simply attracted to all kinds, same as everyone else. The frankly preposterous notion that there must be something “wrong” or “damaged” about the girls/women these guys are attracted to is basically just blaming the victim. Which, apparently, is always tempting, but doesn’t have anything to do with reality. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/45 "2016-05-24T12:16:51Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Help me understand something: If evolutionary physiology is real, why isn’t evolutionary psychology? Do only bodies evolve but not brains/minds? The problem with evo psych is the poor methodology. It usually starts with some observation about modern-day human behavior that is factual, for example, women tend to prefer the color pink. It then attributes an evolutionary cause to that observation to the absolute exclusion of all other possible factors. Women like pink because we once played the gatherer role and needed to attend to reddish colors in nature (see: berries.) Let us completely ignore the fact that pink used to be associated with boys more than girls as recently as the 1800s. Let us completely negate any possible explanation for this observation other than an evolutionary one. Let us then conclude that any existing inequalities between genders exist because it’s natural and good and anybody who wants to correct them is just railing against the inevitable essential differences between men and women. That is why it’s shit science. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/46 "2016-05-24T13:05:30Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Help me understand something: If evolutionary physiology is real, why isn’t evolutionary psychology? Do only bodies evolve but not brains/minds? Evolutionary psychology is (at this time and in the usage in consideration in this thread and similar discussions) is a series of Just-So stories concocted to explain a current (real or perceived) social situation. It is self-serving bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/47 "2016-05-24T14:18:26Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Help me understand something: If evolutionary physiology is real, why isn’t evolutionary psychology? Do only bodies evolve but not brains/minds? There is some real science behind the evolution of human minds, and some serious scientific investigation into how much of modern human behavior can be traced back to evolutionary factors, but the “evolutionary psychology” that you see in youtube comments, from ‘nice guys’, or from PUAs/MRAs is sorely lacking things like controlled studies and peer reviewed papers. On examination, it ends up being just some guy making up a story to justify something that he thinks is true, then other people quoting him like it’s respectable, or someone going to a real research paper and treating as complete proven fact an out of context conclusion or aside that’s bounded by many conditional statements in the original. Like I said before, one thing that is very telling is that evopsych explanations often assert that a 20th century American behavior is a result of evolutionary pressure in pre-history, but utterly fail to explain why other times and other cultural backgrounds produce different behavior. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/48 "2016-05-24T14:32:56Z")
“Nice” is what you say about someone (or yourself) when you have absolutely nothing else to say. It is the equivalent of looking at a car and going “well, at least it runs”. You can be nice and have a girlfriend or wife, as long as it isn’t the only thing you have going for you. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/49 "2016-05-24T17:33:18Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > Heck, scratch even that qualification, in my experience. They’re simply attracted to all kinds, same as everyone else. I think your experience is correct, and that is part of the reason why Nice Guys don’t get anywhere. They aren’t attracted to any particular woman - they are desperate for anyone. And desperation is one of the least attractive qualities imaginable to women (or men, I suppose). “Nobody else will go out with me, so I asked you” is NOT calculated to melt the feminine heart. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/50 "2016-05-24T18:41:17Z")
We need clarification: Are nice guys getting successful \*because of \*being nice, or _in spite of_ being nice? ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/51 "2016-05-24T18:55:13Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > We need clarification: Are nice guys getting successful \*because of \*being nice, or _in spite of_ being nice? It’s like **DigitalC** said. There are plenty of traits comparable to “nice” that at least some women find very attractive - kind, considerate, compassionate. Men like that can find a great partner if, like **Shodan** said, they have some standards and are pursuing the right kind of woman for them. Then on the other hand, there are guys who are “nice” because they’re bland and there’s nothing else of note to say about them. If you’re being described as nice because nobody can think of anything else to call you, you’re going to have to succeed with women in spite of yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/52 "2016-05-24T19:15:35Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > We need clarification: Are nice guys getting successful \*because of \*being nice, or _in spite of_ being nice? Actually nice guys are having success because they’re also normal human beings. I’m not actually sure if their niceness is the most important factor in that success, one way or the other. “Nice” guys are having some success, now and then, inexplicably, _in spite of_ being desperate, rapey and smelly. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/53 "2016-05-24T19:18:20Z")
Faking being nice is a nasty thing. Women can tell. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/54 "2016-05-24T19:27:02Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Faking being nice is a nasty thing. Women can tell. We have one of these in my writer’s group. He hits on me in front of everybody else and generally acts like he’s there to pick up women. He practically falls all over himself to pull out chairs and hold open doors. His writing has potential but it is very, very shallow and female characters are either nonexistent or pathetic caricatures. Last session, he made a comment about one of the female characters in another writer’s story: ‘‘If it were me, I’d smack that bitch and dump her ass.’’ The he looked directly at me with an expression bordering on panic and said, ‘‘Uh, not physically.’’ :dubious: The worst thing about these guys is that they truly think they are nice. They think just because they may not have any ill intent means they are incapable of doing douchebag things. The best sort of people, IME, are the ones willing to honestly examine their own behavior for traces of dickery. These guys don’t. They are perpetual victims of innocent misunderstandings and other people overreacting. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/55 "2016-05-24T19:27:18Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Faking being nice is a nasty thing. Women can tell. Well, sometimes they can tell. Sometimes they can’t tell, but they get clued in when the “nice” guy throws a tantrum and demands the sex he thought he was “buying” from said women. Sometimes the “nice” guy doesn’t throw the tantrum, and instead goes home and sulks, and the women can never tell. But they still don’t particularly want to hump the “nice” guy. 'Cause why would they? He’s not particularly attractive. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/56 "2016-05-24T20:22:19Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Any man who actually says (out loud) “I’m a nice guy” to a woman he is considering is either an [incipient sociopath on the make](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awY1MRlMKMc)or someone excusing their social awkwardness by being overly solicitous and fawning. Or maybe they’re just boring and/or unattractive. Sociopaths don’t seem to cover for their sociopathy by proclaiming how nice they are. And many of them attract lots of women (a poster child is Ted Bundy, who did quite well before and after achieving notoriety, including having a gaggle of women giggling at his Florida murder trial). I never got anywhere with Mrs. J. until I got my “Born To Raise Hell” tattoo and served a prison stretch for littering (and creating a nuisance). ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/57 "2016-05-24T21:09:07Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Or maybe they’re just boring and/or unattractive. It’s a complex situation. On the one hand, you have the sort who are faking nice, but really just want some nookie. But, in many cases, I suppose the “nice” guys really \*are \*nice. Or, well, nice enough. They’re just still completely unfuckable for completely unrelated reasons. There are people in the world, on the internet, and, to be blunt, in this thread (not mentioning names), that I’m pretty sure that I wouldn’t even fuck with Donald Trump’s dick, completely regardless of whether they’re being nice or total assholes. Niceness doesn’t even enter into it. The problem is that these guys tend to suffer from any combination of related delusions. Let’s see if we can sum this up: 1. They imagine that the fact that they’re being nice means that the world owes them sex. This is the big one, I suppose. 2. They think that the fact that they’re nice should somehow compensate for their otherwise horrid personalities and/or physiognomies. 3. For some reason, they decide that the problem must be the niceness itself, not said personalities and/or physiognomies. 4. The fault somehow lies with everyone else - the women who don’t appreciate the niceness, and all other men, who are obviously assholes - instead of themselves. The human capacity for obliviousness and self-delusion in this matter can be quite baffling and intriguing indeed. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/58 "2016-05-25T00:39:28Z")
I’ve tentatively identified as a “nice guy”, quotation marks and all. As in, yeah, one of the guys who go on record complaining that women in general don’t want “nice guys” and go out with the other kind of guys. (It’s complicated because it was never a bunch of Nice Guys™ who came forth and self-identified in this fashion; it was women, most specifically heartless bitches international, who wrote a screed _about_ nice guys, which then went viral So for me to identify as a Nice Guy™ means I think I’m among the guys that the author of the heartless bitches piece was writing about). Anyway, yeah. Most women would like to be with male-bodied people who are men, who embody certain characteristics that we can designate as masculine, manly. Which isn’t how I am at all. And for the record, I’m not angry and bitter about the majority of women having that preference. I just didn’t like being left out in the cold, as it were. There are several general categories of women who kind of like to be with guys like me, in other words good territory for me and guys like me to go a-flirting: • masculine dykey females who (despite stereotypes to the contrary) aren’t into other female-bodied people by preference, even if they generally tend to like women as people a lot. • sexually active women who have been labeled sluts and similar terms, who have had sufficient time and opportunity to sow their wild oats and bang all the random cute guys and all that, who are kind of ready to be with someone who will love them and appreciate them and who don’t have some kind of judgmental issue about who they’ve been with. • feminist women who have a strong distaste for patriarchally scripted gender-specific courting and dating roles and would like to play with someone who doesn’t do them either. (cf — _Chasing Amy, The Rose_) ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/59 "2016-05-25T00:46:37Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > 1. They imagine that the fact that they’re being nice means that the world owes them sex. This is the big one, I suppose. Some probably do. Some of us are a lot like nice _girls_ who expect that if they are good company and are amenable to getting involved with a guy, there will indeed be guys who will want all that including sex, and those guys will make themselves available on that level, for them (the nice girls) to consider and choose from. Think about it. > [@](#): > > 1. They think that the fact that they’re nice should somehow compensate for their otherwise horrid personalities and/or physiognomies. Yeesh. Not all of us have horrible personalities. Well, not unless your personality-expectation of guys is that they should be manly and stuff. We don’t all look horribe either. > [@](#): > > 1. For some reason, they decide that the problem must be the niceness itself, not said personalities and/or physiognomies. See above. > [@](#): > > 1. The fault somehow lies with everyone else - the women who don’t appreciate the niceness, and all other men, who are obviously assholes - instead of themselves. _Wince_ Point taken. If I am right about “who we are”, and that I am one of these nice guys and all that, … it takes awhile to figure out that one is a peculiarly different person, and before understanding this there can be bitterness towards the normal folks, both the normal women (who don’t appreciate nice guys) and the typical men (who aren’t nice guys). I did. I admit it. I got over it. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482/60 "2016-05-25T00:52:48Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > Yeesh. Not all of us have horrible personalities. Well, not unless your personality-expectation of guys is that they should be manly and stuff. We don’t all look horribe either. Fair enough. I’m being a jerk, partly for attempted comedic effect. Point is: If you (general you, which at times includes me) can’t get laid, being _nice_, of all things, may not be the number one reason. Or, indeed, a reason. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-nice-guys-ever-find-women-who-will-accept-them/755482.md?page=4)