# Do non-Americans associate American cities with states? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 21, 2008, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-non-americans-associate-american-cities-with-states/457218 "2008-07-21T03:07:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Big\_Norse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/big_norse/32/9954_2.png) [@Big\_Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Big_Norse)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-non-americans-associate-american-cities-with-states/457218/41 "2008-07-21T19:49:43Z")
[QUOTE=TheLoadedDog] I’ve mentioned this before on these boards, and had Americans say that it’s because smaller-sized cities need it. But I’m not sure: you guys still tend to say “Los Angeles, California”, or “New York, New york”. I think it’s a good habit too. I’m glad you do it. [/QUOTE] The rule of thumb isn’t size so much as originality. There is only one Chicago, Los Angeles, or New York (of note) there are several Portlands, Springfields, Washingtons, etc. If it’s the only one you can leave off the state, otherwise it’s safer to mention state with city. As mentioned above, I’ll bet a lot of Americans don’t know that the city of New York is in the state of New York (and isn’t the capital), and Chicago is in the state of Illinois (and isn’t the capital). Chicago gets ignored a lot because many people know what’s on the coasts: Miami, New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco - and consider the rest of the US “fly-over country” even though Chicago is the third largest city in the states. > [@Martini Enfield](#): > > I couldn’t tell you anything else about the city (besides the fact the SDMB is based there) off the top of my head, other than that it’s on the shore of Lake Michigan, in the state of Illinois, and is sometimes known as “The Windy City”. And something about a massive fire back in the 1870s, IIRC. And the home of the tallest building in the Americas (or Europe). ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-non-americans-associate-american-cities-with-states/457218/42 "2008-07-21T19:58:09Z")
Heh, I made it from NYC to Reno in 48 hours once, and that’s including the nap at a hotel in Salt Lake City. 😉 If we hadn’t napped we could’ve made it all the way to San Francisco in those 48. 😉 We had three drivers in heavy rotation and didn’t care much about the car as is it was my wife’s Grandmother’s who wasn’t going to be driving anymore. If you want to catch an idea of the scale of the US drive the entire length of I-80. Another good way to get it though is out west where the lengths are deceptive, because one minute you are flying down the interstate at 90mph through Wyoming, but if you want to go somewhere else in Wyoming it’s all winding mountain state highways. I don’t think Europeans understand that the United States is bigger than Europe. Going from NY to LA is like going from London to Istanbul. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-non-americans-associate-american-cities-with-states/457218/43 "2008-07-21T20:09:48Z")
[QUOTE=Bytegeist] You have to wonder. And here’s the thing. It isn’t even sensible to try to visit three separate cities or attractions in Britain in one road trip. What made him think it was feasible in the US? Maybe he was just making conversation, in his peculiar way. Don’t forget our Canadian friends, who deal with similar scales of geography. Of course in their case, you just follow the Only Road… [/QUOTE] Well, the Brit was very nice, until I made the cardinal mistake of asking him what he did for a living. It got a bit chilly in the room, after that… Canada is a big country? I thought is was mostly moose and ice… \ ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-non-americans-associate-american-cities-with-states/457218/44 "2008-07-21T20:13:48Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] I don’t think Europeans understand that the United States is bigger than Europe. [/QUOTE] Psst… it isn’t. Land area of Europe: 3,930,000 sq mi Land area of the U.S.A.: 3,536,294 sq mi ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-non-americans-associate-american-cities-with-states/457218/45 "2008-07-21T20:20:28Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] Well, the Brit was very nice, until I made the cardinal mistake of asking him what he did for a living. It got a bit chilly in the room, after that… [/QUOTE] I don’t get it. Did he look like an arms dealer or something? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-non-americans-associate-american-cities-with-states/457218/46 "2008-07-21T20:24:08Z")
[QUOTE=Usram] I don’t get it. Did he look like an arms dealer or something? [/QUOTE] I suspect she was talking to a complete stranger. IME, you just can’t have the same conversations with Britons (that you don’t know) that you can with Americans. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-non-americans-associate-american-cities-with-states/457218/47 "2008-07-21T20:36:25Z")
[QUOTE=Usram] I don’t get it. Did he look like an arms dealer or something? [/QUOTE] No. He looked like a typical British business man, up to London for a few days. He did something with either electrical systems or electronic systems-this was 14 year ago, so… I did not know this, but you do not ask a UK stranger what they do to earn their grub. It. just. isn’t. done. In doing so, I had shown myself (heretofore an attractive, friendly American) to be a nosy, rude pushy Yank. \ [sub]I didn’t really care what he did. I had just run out of conversation. Stupid Limey bastards…won the war for the likes of you… \ [/sub] 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-non-americans-associate-american-cities-with-states/457218/48 "2008-07-21T20:46:13Z")
[QUOTE=Big\_Norse] …And the home of the tallest building in the Americas (or Europe). [/QUOTE] Well, the tallest building _left_ in the Americas, after 9/11. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-non-americans-associate-american-cities-with-states/457218/49 "2008-07-21T20:49:30Z")
[QUOTE=Boyo Jim] Well, the tallest building _left_ in the Americas, after 9/11. [/QUOTE] Huh? The Sears Tower was always taller than the WTC towers. The WTC towers were only the tallest buildings in the Americas (and world) from 1975-1976, or thereabouts. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-non-americans-associate-american-cities-with-states/457218/50 "2008-07-21T20:52:01Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, the Brit was very nice, until I made the cardinal mistake of asking him what he did for a living. It got a bit chilly in the room, after that… > [@](#): > > I don’t get it. It turns out he was Prince Charles. Awkward moment for everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-non-americans-associate-american-cities-with-states/457218/51 "2008-07-21T20:58:54Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] Huh? The Sears Tower was always taller than the WTC towers. The WTC towers were only the tallest buildings in the Americas (and world) from 1975-1976, or thereabouts. [/QUOTE] I stand corrected. All the post-9/11 hype must have inflated the Twin Towers in my mind. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-non-americans-associate-american-cities-with-states/457218/52 "2008-07-21T21:17:55Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] It turns out he was Prince Charles. Awkward moment for everyone. [/QUOTE] I’ll say! 😃 thanks for the laugh. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-non-americans-associate-american-cities-with-states/457218/53 "2008-07-21T21:18:18Z")
Before I recently updated my IP blacklist, I used to have a lot of Indian spammers register on the message board I run. One of the registration items was “Location (city/municipality, state/province, country)”. The Indian spammers could be easily identified by the information they put into this field; it was ALWAYS the most recognizable cities in the US, the spelling was often comical, and they were often associated with the wrong state - “the newyork”, “losanges texas”, “shikago alaska”, and so on. It was never something like “Prairie Village, Kansas” or “Mississauga, Ontario” - always NY, LA and Chicago, always with irregular capitalization, and often bad spelling. (FWIW, the Nigerians always used “London” or “UK” by itself; again, never smaller cities.) FWIW, even though I’m assumed to be geographically illiterate because I’m an American, I associate Canadian, South African and Australian cities with their respective sub-national political subdivisions. I’m not that good with cities in non-English speaking countries, though. Nor India, but I’m learning … 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-non-americans-associate-american-cities-with-states/457218/54 "2008-07-21T21:24:59Z")
[QUOTE=Derleth] If I can tack on a question here, how well-known is Chicago among non-American Dopers? [/QUOTE] An old stereotype of an encounter by an American tourist overseas is hearing “You American? Chicago bang bang, yes?”, thinking Al Capone still reigns over the city. Like I said, “Chicago” with various spellings and random states was a favorite fake location of Indian spammers on my message board. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-non-americans-associate-american-cities-with-states/457218/55 "2008-07-21T21:39:36Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] It turns out he was Prince Charles. Awkward moment for everyone. [/QUOTE] I was under the impression that all Englishmen are taught witty comebacks from birth just in case they’re asked to speak at dinner or speak to a random stranger in a hotel lounge. Let me offer Charles a line the next time this happens: “Oh, I’m the chairman of the International Business Leaders Forum.” ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-non-americans-associate-american-cities-with-states/457218/56 "2008-07-21T21:48:11Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] Psst… it isn’t. Land area of Europe: 3,930,000 sq mi Land area of the U.S.A.: 3,536,294 sq mi [/QUOTE] Insert: “for certain values of Europe” ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-non-americans-associate-american-cities-with-states/457218/57 "2008-07-21T22:25:30Z")
[QUOTE=chicken wire?] Great Falls Montana [/QUOTE] How do you know Great Falls? It’s neither the capital (Helena is) nor one of the largest cities (Missoula, Butte, and Bozeman are the largest, I think). It’s also, if I may speak as a near-local, not a very interesting city and not in a very interesting part of the state. About the only thing Great Falls has going for it is Malmstrom Air Force Base, which used to be a Strategic Air Command center (long-range bombers with nuclear weapons and all that). ---
**Author:** ![Kilvert\_s\_Pagan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@Kilvert\_s\_Pagan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilvert_s_Pagan)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-non-americans-associate-american-cities-with-states/457218/58 "2008-07-21T22:37:37Z")
[QUOTE=Derleth] About the only thing Great Falls has going for it is Malmstrom Air Force Base, which used to be a Strategic Air Command center (long-range bombers with nuclear weapons and all that). [/QUOTE] I once knew a really pretty blonde who was from there, so maybe it had two things going for it. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Waenara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@Waenara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waenara)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-non-americans-associate-american-cities-with-states/457218/59 "2008-07-21T23:34:48Z")
[QUOTE=Derleth] How do you know Great Falls? It’s neither the capital (Helena is) nor one of the largest cities (Missoula, Butte, and Bozeman are the largest, I think)… [/QUOTE] I know Great Falls because I went there for a college basketball tournament once (I was the trainer for a team from Calgary, Alberta). BTW, I looked on Wikipedia and it lists Montana’s major cities. I listed them below by population (I only recognize the first six): Billings - 101,876 (City, 2007 estimate), 179,113 (Metro, 2007 est.) Missoula - 64,081 (City, 2006), 95,802 (Metro, 2006) Great Falls - 56,690 (2000) Butte - 33,892 (2000) Bozeman - 27,509 (2000) Helena - 25,780 (2000) Havre Miles City ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2008, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-non-americans-associate-american-cities-with-states/457218/60 "2008-07-22T01:27:05Z")
[QUOTE=Big\_Norse] The rule of thumb isn’t size so much as originality. There is only one Chicago, Los Angeles, or New York (of note) there are several Portlands, Springfields, Washingtons, etc. If it’s the only one you can leave off the state, otherwise it’s safer to mention state with city. [/QUOTE] But this is what I mean… Intuitively, I’d _expect_ a small or duplicate place to have the state thrown in for good measure: so “Bloomer, Wisconsin”, but just “Chicago.” But I seem to overwhelmingly hear or read “Chicago, Illinois”. Like I said above, I’m not complaining about this as it’s cool subliminal education, but it is a little surprising. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-non-americans-associate-american-cities-with-states/457218.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-non-americans-associate-american-cities-with-states/457218.md?page=4)