# Do Northern US ponds no longer freeze in the winter? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 23, 2019, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-northern-us-ponds-no-longer-freeze-in-the-winter/845291 "2019-12-23T13:41:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-northern-us-ponds-no-longer-freeze-in-the-winter/845291/1 "2019-12-23T13:41:30Z")
Or maybe they don’t freeze as long? Or the ice is not thick enough to skate on? As a kid in the 60s in NJ we had a frozen pond but I think it does not freeze now. ---
**Author:** ![SacFly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@SacFly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SacFly)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-northern-us-ponds-no-longer-freeze-in-the-winter/845291/2 "2019-12-23T14:01:06Z")
NJ ponds absolutely still freeze. I have a friend that does a lot of ice fishing every winter from around I-80 and north. ---
**Author:** ![GaryM](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garym/32/241_2.png) [@GaryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaryM)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-northern-us-ponds-no-longer-freeze-in-the-winter/845291/3 "2019-12-23T14:09:37Z")
Ponds in Central Missouri are freezing. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-northern-us-ponds-no-longer-freeze-in-the-winter/845291/4 "2019-12-23T14:20:29Z")
do they stay frozen for a shorter period? ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-northern-us-ponds-no-longer-freeze-in-the-winter/845291/5 "2019-12-23T14:23:51Z")
Lake St. Clair has frozen over almost completely for the past several years. May not this year, though, we’re in a bit of a warm stretch right now. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-northern-us-ponds-no-longer-freeze-in-the-winter/845291/6 "2019-12-23T14:29:41Z")
Alaskan sled dog race Iditarod has had to change the route several times due to not enough snow in recent years. Alaska in general is seeing earlier warming. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-northern-us-ponds-no-longer-freeze-in-the-winter/845291/7 "2019-12-23T14:36:01Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > do they stay frozen for a shorter period? The house we live in was built by my gf and her ex-husband ~30 years ago. During construction they had a 1 acre parcel of swampy land dug up to create a pond. He played semi-pro hockey and skated on the pond all winter. The past few years we’ve noticed that the pond has only been “skate-able” for a short time during the winter. We do not skate, but we do keep a section free of ice for ducks to drink (using a floating heater) and the days we need to use the device are fewer each year. ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-northern-us-ponds-no-longer-freeze-in-the-winter/845291/8 "2019-12-23T15:09:55Z")
Most Michigan lakes and ponds freeze. Ice fishing and skating are popular here. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-northern-us-ponds-no-longer-freeze-in-the-winter/845291/9 "2019-12-23T16:44:57Z")
There is a restaurant in Havre de Grace, Maryland, with a series of photos framed on their wall. They show railroad tracks laid over the ice across the mouth of the Susquehanna River there, with trains including steam locomotives on them. I still can’t wrap my mind around this. It would have to mean that the ice went all the way across the river and got thick enough to support a train with a steam locomotive, and stayed that way long enough for people to decide “let’s do this, we are confident it will last long enough to make it worth the enormous effort”. I’ve seen ice on the river but I don’t think I’ve ever seen ice reach all the way across, let alone thick enough to try walking over it. Can this possibly be real? It would be quite the testimony to water freezing over much less than, oh, 100 or 150 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-northern-us-ponds-no-longer-freeze-in-the-winter/845291/10 "2019-12-23T16:48:36Z")
Here’s a link about building train tracks across frozen rivers. They’re in the far north continental US or in other very northern locations. > **[Trains on Ice](https://www.hhhistory.com/2015/01/trains-on-ice.html)** > > by Anita Mae Draper Some of you may be familiar with ice roads from watching tv shows like the History channel's reality series, Ice ... ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-northern-us-ponds-no-longer-freeze-in-the-winter/845291/11 "2019-12-23T16:55:14Z")
In Wisconsin, where I grew up, ice fishing is very popular, as is snowmobiling across frozen lakes, but it does appear that ponds and lakes are not frozen for as long (or have thick enough ice to support ice fishing) as they did in the past. For example, [this article](https://climatewisconsin.org/story/ice-fishing.html), about ice fishing around Madison, notes: > [@](#): > > University of Wisconsin-Madison researchers have collected data beginning in 1855 recording the dates on which Lakes Monona and Mendota have frozen (“ice in”) and thawed (“ice out”). While the dates vary greatly from year to year, the overall trend for shorter ice seasons is clear. The record for Lake Mendota shows that the five longest ice-cover seasons on record all occurred between 1855 (the beginning of the dataset) and 1880. Four of the five shortest ice-cover seasons have occurred since 1980. The average number of days the lake stays frozen has dropped from 122 for the first 20 years of the record to just 91.5 for the last 20. And, [this article](https://news.wisc.edu/as-the-climate-warms-tens-of-thousands-of-lakes-may-spend-winters-ice-free/), about a broader study by the University of Wisconsin on northern-latitude lakes, notes the following: > [@](#): > > From 1862 through the winter of 1996, southern Wisconsin’s Lake Geneva, a prime destination for regional ice fishermen, froze over each year. But, since 1997, the lake has had four ice-free winters. > [@](#): > > Magnuson saw these dynamics in action this year. From his office on the shore of Lake Mendota, the deepest of Madison, Wisconsin’s chain of lakes, he watched as the lake froze and thawed twice in December and January. Meanwhile, nearby and smaller Lake Wingra froze in early December and has maintained its ice. Mendota’s “fits and starts freezing,” he says, illustrates how climate change is expected to affect northern lakes. > > “Lake Mendota’s not going to suddenly have no ice and then have no ice again the next year,” he says. “It’s going to have increasing proportions of years with no ice. It will have good winters for ice activity and winters with no ice activity. This is going to be a gradual process.” ---
**Author:** ![JWT\_Kottekoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3ec8ea/32.png) [@JWT\_Kottekoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JWT_Kottekoe)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-northern-us-ponds-no-longer-freeze-in-the-winter/845291/12 "2019-12-23T16:59:04Z")
Here is a record for one lake in Northern Minnesota. The variation from year-to-year is large, but there is a trend to shorter duration of ice on the lake. [Gull Lake Ice Cover History](http://glqo.net/two/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Gull-Lake-Ice-Record-through-Spring-2016-1.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-northern-us-ponds-no-longer-freeze-in-the-winter/845291/13 "2019-12-23T17:03:37Z")
I’ve seen a lot of variance in the winters here in northeast over many years. In the past twenty years in southern New England there have been a few very cold winters, but most cycle between very cold and warmer temperatures for a few days at a time. In a winter like that the ice on ponds and lakes doesn’t get very thick over the winter. But in the early months of the year we occasionally get weeks of cold mainly sub-freezing temps and the ice will build up quite well for fishing and skating. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-northern-us-ponds-no-longer-freeze-in-the-winter/845291/14 "2019-12-23T17:18:38Z")
There are historical records that show preachers traveled by horse-drawn wagons across Green Bay to reach their devoted flocks on the other side in the 1800’s. More to the present, every winter some pickup trucks fall thru the ice to their doom. Although you can walk out into Green Bay in February in places, the idea of trying a regular crossing would be super-folly. I don’t think a preacher would chance it, even with God’s help. Chambers Island, midway between the west & east coasts of Green Bay, is now deer-free. 100 years ago, deer would regularly cross from either side to reach the rich vegetation on the island. Apparently deer haven’t been able to do that recently. ---
**Author:** ![Topologist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/topologist/32/3208_2.png) [@Topologist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Topologist)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-northern-us-ponds-no-longer-freeze-in-the-winter/845291/15 "2019-12-23T17:48:42Z")
I live near Manhasset Bay on Long Island. I gather that the bay used to freeze over regularly enough that recreational iceboats were not uncommon in the early decades of the 20th century. I’ve found NY Times stories from the 1970s that indicate that iceboats were still sailed there occasionally, but that conditions would be right for only short periods of time. In the time I’ve lived here, since 2004, I can’t remember seeing anything more than some thin ice near the shore. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-northern-us-ponds-no-longer-freeze-in-the-winter/845291/16 "2019-12-23T18:11:05Z")
Mine freezes. I don’t skate, but the neighbors came over and skated on it last winter. I don’t keep notes on when it freezes and when it doesn’t; but it probably does freeze for less of the winter than it used to. Everything I do keep track of agrees with the growing-zone map people that we’re overall warmer than we used to be. It does vary year to year; the weather around here was always somewhat erratic, but it’s gotten a lot more so. (The rainfall patterns have also changed, which has been causing a lot of problems.) ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-northern-us-ponds-no-longer-freeze-in-the-winter/845291/17 "2019-12-23T18:20:51Z")
I think it was about 20 or 30 years ago, Lake Erie was mostly frozen and a number of ice fishermen from the Detroit area were out on the lake fishing. Then the wind came up and broke their ice loose as a giant berg, and they had to be rescued by coast guard helicopters. …but not their trucks. Even 25 years ago I thought it was weird that \*Grumpy Old Men \*showed people driving their trucks on the lake and ice fishing, over the Thanksgiving weekend? Even further north on Canadian prairies, driving on ice in late November could be a dicey proposition. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-northern-us-ponds-no-longer-freeze-in-the-winter/845291/18 "2019-12-23T18:37:57Z")
It was an old tradition that there would be a ceremony honoring the first captain coming down the St. Lawrence every year. This always used to happen in April; now it is always the first ship in January. River still freezes, but not till January and I would imagine it thaws in March, but I don’t know that. Lake Champlain still freezes every winter and supports an active ice-fishing industry, but it starts later and ends earlier than it used to. I don’t know about small lakes in NJ. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-northern-us-ponds-no-longer-freeze-in-the-winter/845291/19 "2019-12-23T19:31:31Z")
I don’t think of where I live as “the north”, but Washington State borders Canada so I guess it counts. (Where I live the winters are typically mild so I think of stuff north of me as “the north”.) But ponds can freeze here, sure. Maybe not lakes and rivers but ponds can. Not that we skate on them. Again, our winters are mild and ice doesn’t get that thick. Maybe east of the Cascades it does. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-northern-us-ponds-no-longer-freeze-in-the-winter/845291/20 "2019-12-24T03:57:51Z")
The tidal basin and the Potomac River here in DC froze over in 2015 and 2018. It’s noteworthy when it happens, though. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-northern-us-ponds-no-longer-freeze-in-the-winter/845291.md?page=2)