# Do Not Re-elect Bush 2004 **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 22, 2002, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-not-re-elect-bush-2004/120154 "2002-07-22T01:44:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-not-re-elect-bush-2004/120154/61 "2002-07-24T05:47:53Z")
I’m not afraid of _they_, but i’m afraid of _them_!!! ---
**Author:** ![jharek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9dc877/32.png) [@jharek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jharek)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-not-re-elect-bush-2004/120154/62 "2002-07-24T10:25:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by p@cific@812 \* > \*\* > > Well naturally. I mean, _they_ control all the governments/media/econonmies on the earth, it should be obvious that _they_ read all instant messenger transmissions as well-- hell, _they_ are probably watching all of SDMB right now. Of course, _they_ are able to support the near-infinite number of employees necessary to accomplish this task _because_ they control the world economy. You should be careful talking like this though, its exactly what _they_ want-- to strip you of your credibility by making you sound crazy. Thats all I can say right now. I have to move to another location before _they_ get a fix on me. \*\* yeah Id say they pretty much have it covered. [http://www.projectfreedom.cng1.com/images/levels\_of\_knowledge.gif](http://www.projectfreedom.cng1.com/images/levels_of_knowledge.gif) Yeah, at first i didnt want to say too much about this, but it has been on my mind alot lately. I see the constitution being taking apart piece by piece. It seems the in an “emergency situation” that you can get several laws passed quickly, if they are in violation of the Constitution or not… And soon military will be roaming the streets as police officers, whisking suspect people away…Homeland Security checkpoints will be EVERYWHERE with stormtropper looking soldiers asking “Citizen, May I see your I.D.” The president will be able to acquire unlimited funds from “unknown” sources without Congress approval… (this is the bill he is trying to pass right now) They already passed the bill into law about monitoring instant messages and emails… looking for “terrorists” I seriously doubt that “terrorists” are sending IMs and emails from their caves. That is all Im gonna say for awhile about this. Either you are an intelligent person, and you seek out information to make an educated conclusion upon things… or you know it all already and I am a kook. Either way, we shall find out soon enough. Just think twice before checking Bushes name in 2004. ---
**Author:** ![Mort\_Furd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mort\_Furd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mort_Furd)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-not-re-elect-bush-2004/120154/63 "2002-07-24T13:02:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jharek \* > \*\*They already passed the bill into law about monitoring instant messages and emails… looking for “terrorists” I seriously doubt that “terrorists” are sending IMs and emails from their caves. \*\* And if they would just **STAY** in their caves there wouldn’t be a problem. The fact is, that in order to do any damage they are going to have to come out of their caves and into the US - at which time they have access to all of the same communications methods any American can use. Since they aren’t all clumped together and cowering in a cave together, they have to communicate in order to coordinate their actions. If they are already in the US, it becomes that much more important to find them since they are that much closer to their target. Can someone tell me why I am bothering to respond to this mess of paranoic drivel? ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2002, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-not-re-elect-bush-2004/120154/64 "2002-07-24T14:26:04Z")
You mean THEY ain’t reading our stuff. Depends on which THEY you’re talking about, right MEBuckner?😉 Hey Jhad, er I mean Jharak…here’s some stuff you can add to your theory. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=127177](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=127177) ---
**Author:** ![p\_cific\_812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@p\_cific\_812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/p_cific_812)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2002, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-not-re-elect-bush-2004/120154/65 "2002-07-25T04:19:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jharek \* > \*\* > yeah Id say they pretty much have it covered. > [http://www.projectfreedom.cng1.com/...f\_knowledge.gif](http://www.projectfreedom.cng1.com/...f_knowledge.gif) > \*\* Oh I see. This pyramid explains it all. How could I have been so blind? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2002, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-not-re-elect-bush-2004/120154/66 "2002-07-25T09:33:11Z")
**Moderator’s Note:** Fixed link in **t-keela** ’s post. ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2002, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-not-re-elect-bush-2004/120154/67 "2002-07-25T23:05:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MEBuckner \* > \*\ ***Moderator’s Note:** Fixed link in **t-keela** ’s post. \*\* 'preciate it MOD, damn PC givin me fits, boards won’t load. Man I run 'em hot in that other thread. Most of 'em never even got the point! Anyway, it’s Cuervo time! -later- 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![w0rdsmith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a698b9/32.png) [@w0rdsmith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/w0rdsmith)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-not-re-elect-bush-2004/120154/68 "2003-08-01T06:22:08Z")
i did a search for Bush 2004 and came up with this… interesting points made here. Seems a lot more prevalent… now that things have passed. Hrmm. the original poster was banned? another sign of the apocolypse? But anyway please vote for anyone but bush in 2004. ---
**Author:** ![\_O\_o\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/9d8465/32.png) [@\_O\_o\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_O_o_1)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-not-re-elect-bush-2004/120154/69 "2003-08-01T06:35:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by w0rdsmith \* > \*\*i did a search for Bush 2004 and came up with this… interesting points made here. Seems a lot more prevalent… now that things have passed. Hrmm. the original poster was banned? another sign of the apocolypse? > > But anyway please vote for anyone but bush in 2004. \*\* Yeah… Split your votes up between Democrat and Green again! Do it! ---
**Author:** ![w0rdsmith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a698b9/32.png) [@w0rdsmith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/w0rdsmith)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-not-re-elect-bush-2004/120154/70 "2003-08-01T06:46:56Z")
Well I would say vote for [Kucinich](http://www.kucinich.us) or [Dean](http://www.deanforamerica.com) as they look like great candidates with minimal hidden agendas. I wouldnt vote for John F Kerry. As F stands for FORBES, so you know he is wealthy, wealthy. And wealthy wealthy isnt really democratic. And he certainly hasnt had to do a hard day of work in his life. I really like the fact that Kucinich has the idea for [Department of Peace](http://www.dopcampaign.org/). I dont think he is getting enough media attention though. However with the FCC new regulations on media that doesnt surprise me. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-not-re-elect-bush-2004/120154/71 "2003-08-01T11:45:49Z")
How the heck am I reading a thread with posts from a guy whose subtitle is “banned”? I see dead people? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-not-re-elect-bush-2004/120154/72 "2003-08-01T11:53:37Z")
Kucinich isn’t getting coverage because his ideas are way out on the fringe. The media could make him their top story and he’d get 30% of the vote and hand Bush 49 states. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-not-re-elect-bush-2004/120154/73 "2003-08-01T11:54:07Z")
check the dates. It was bumped from last year. BTW, the Bilderberg Group does exist, but it’s aims and objectives are greatly exaggerated. ---
**Author:** ![zut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zut/32/2875_2.png) [@zut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zut)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-not-re-elect-bush-2004/120154/74 "2003-08-01T12:18:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Captain Amazing \* > [Re: Lincoln quote “…the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until the wealth is aggregated in the hands of a few, and the Republic is destroyed”]Do you know where or when he said that? I was just wondering if you could source the speech. I’m a little late here (OK, a year late, so sue me), but I’ve seen this quote before and it didn’t ring true to me, so I poked around. The quote is repeated in a number of places (Google _Lincoln “the Republic is destroyed”_ and you’ll see), either without source, or attributed to a Nov. 21, 1864 letter to Col. William F. Elkins (Ref.: THE LINCOLN ENCYCLOPEDIA, Archer H. Shaw [Macmillan, 1950]). However, as [Snopes points out](http://www.snopes.com/quotes/lincoln.htm) the quotation is almost certainly spurious, Shaw being, apparently, something of a sloppy reasearcher. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-not-re-elect-bush-2004/120154/75 "2003-08-01T12:21:52Z")
> [@](#): > > If this conspiracy were so powerful and widespread, how come they haven’t sent snipers after you yet? > [@](#): > > **jharek** > Banned :eek: ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-not-re-elect-bush-2004/120154/76 "2003-08-01T12:30:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Captain Amazing \* > \*\*Do you know where or when he said that? I was just wondering if you could source the speech. \*\* Here’s a lead: Abraham Lincoln, letter to William Elkins, Nov 21, 1864 (just after the passage of the National Banking Act, right before assasination) [http://www.welfarestate.com/](http://www.welfarestate.com/) Which leads to: U.S. President Abraham Lincoln, Nov. 21, 1864 (letter to Col. William F. Elkins) Ref: The Lincoln Encyclopedia, Archer H. Shaw (Macmillan, 1950, NY) [http://www.ratical.org/corporations/Lincoln.html](http://www.ratical.org/corporations/Lincoln.html) Which leads to: > [@](#): > > Some people expressed doubts about its authenticity, given Lincoln’s work as an attorney for railroad corporations! It was an interesting job tracking it down and verifying its authenticity. > > The first ref I heard for this quote was Jack London’s 1908 Iron Heel. And although the quote indeed appears there (near p. 100), Jack London offered neither context nor source. > > More recently, David Korten’s book, When Corporations Rule the World (1995, Kumarian Press), sources the quote to Harvey Wasserman (America Born and Reborn, Macmillan, 1983, p. 89-90, 313), who in turn sources it to Paha Sapa Reports, the newspaper of the Black Hills Alliance, Rapid City, South Dakota, 4 March 1982. But given Wasserman’s ties to Howard Zinn, and his status as co-founder (?) of the Liberation News Service, citing that kind of trail is like waving a red flag for the skeptics 😉 > > Fortunately, after some burrowing in the univ. library, I was able to confirm its authenticity. Here it is, with more surrounding context: > > > [@](#): > > > > \*\* > > "We may congratulate ourselves that this cruel war is nearing its end. It has cost a vast amount of treasure and blood. . . . It has indeed been a trying hour for the Republic; but I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. > > > > I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety of my country than ever before, even in the midst of war. God grant that my suspicions may prove groundless."\*\* > > The passage appears in a letter from Lincoln to (Col.) William F. > Elkins, Nov. 21, 1864. > > For a reliable pedigree, cite p. 40 of The Lincoln Encyclopedia, > by Archer H. Shaw (Macmillan, 1950, NY). That traces the quote’s > lineage to p. 954 of Abraham Lincoln: A New Portrait, (Vol. 2) by > Emanuel Hertz (Horace Liveright Inc, 1931, NY) In addition: > [@](#): > > Here’s another reference you can add to your list. People can read the Lincoln quote in one of the basement rooms of the Lincoln Memorial in Washington, DC, as I did 2 years ago. [http://csf.colorado.edu/bioregional/99/msg00084.html](http://csf.colorado.edu/bioregional/99/msg00084.html) You’re welcome! Just don’t ask me to source “Writing about music is like dancing about architecture” ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-not-re-elect-bush-2004/120154/77 "2003-08-01T14:30:16Z")
> [@](#): > > ## \*Originally posted by Attrayant \* > > ## If this conspiracy were so powerful and widespread, how come they haven’t sent snipers after you yet? > > ## quote: > > jharek > Banned > > * * * > > \*\*:eek: \*\* And why can’t I find _where_ and _why_ he was banned??? Hmm, maybe I should start reading his links… ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-not-re-elect-bush-2004/120154/78 "2003-08-01T14:45:05Z")
Who resurrected this hoary old chestnut? Hmm? Nobody’s leaving until whoever did it owns up. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-not-re-elect-bush-2004/120154/79 "2003-08-01T17:32:35Z")
… ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-not-re-elect-bush-2004/120154/80 "2003-08-01T17:33:52Z")
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