Do nurses really "eat their young"?

I don’t think it’s a woman thing–I think that’s a red herring. It’s all about status. In jobs where there are very few meaningful symbols of status, people start to make a much bigger deal about the minor symbols–i.e., in fields where there is a clear corporate ladder, success and competence lead to promotions and better pay. In other fields–like teaching, nursing, certain retail environments–those things that serve as meaningful recognitions of power and competence are diluted. Pay scale tends to be set, and fairly static. There isn’t anything above “supervisor” to advance to, and because of that, supervisors tend to stay where they are a long time, making advancement impossible unless you change careers. In this sort of environment, the petty prerogatives–the right to bully, a slightly better parking place, better shifts, longer breaks–become serious battleground, turf that has to be defended.

As to why all the “dynamic” careers are the male-dominated ones and the “static” careers are the female-dominated ones, I think that has a lot to do with the starkly different role of women in the workforce 40 years ago.

For what it’s worth, I’m a male nurse working in Australia, in a high-acuity (therefore high-stress) surgical ward. I think that nurses eating their young is a fading relic from years when women didn’t have much choice in careers. Now that women are free to quit and choose from any number of different jobs nursing’s had to shape up and offer a supportive environment to keep it an attractive job.

MandaJo, you couldn’t be more wrong, at least in Australia. One of the nice things about Nursing here is that there is plenty of room for advancement.

You start off looking after a patient load. Then, if you have more experience (and want to apply for the job) you can be in charge of the shift, where you’re basically the ringleader for however many other nurses are on (usually about 5-8 where I work). Then, you can be the person who actually runs the ward. Above that, you can be the person in charge of all the nurses. Above that is the person who runs the hospital (here, that’s usually someone with a background in nursing). That’s not to mention the side specialties of being a stomaltherapist, a wound care nurse, IV services, etc etc.

Anyway, my point is that saying there’s not much room for promotion in the profession shows either a gross misunderstanding of nursing or a disturbing fact of nursing in the US. I suspect it’s the former.

Back to the the question in the OP, either it’s completely different in Australia or I’ve been very lucky. I’ve only worked on two different wards since I got my degree, but I’ve been on 8 different wards in 3 different hospitals while I was a student and the only places that had an “eat their young” vibe were also widely known to be places that it was unpleasant to work.

The ward I work on now has a very good reputation for being nice, but even so shifts are set in stone, so while a nurse who’s been working for a long while but has neglected to move up the ladder (and some do, since the higher you go the further away from patient care and into management you get) can usually get better shifts, they always do at the expense of actual hours. If you want to work full time you have to do the full spread of shifts and it’s divvied up pretty fairly. If someone decided to only give easier shifts to senior staff and crap shifts to junior ones it would be blatantly wrong and they’d probably not only be asked to explain themselves, but asked to step down as an in-charge.

We’re also very concious of being caring and supportive of new staff since it IS a stressful place to work. All the unpleasantness I get at work is from the more dickheaded patients, and I know that of the 50-odd people I’m likely to be on with not one of them won’t have my back. (Along those lines I got my first threatened lawsuit this week! Even then, everyone was on my side, and I never felt like I was being hung out to dry at any point.)

I aknowledge that I might be just very lucky in where I’ve been working/placed, and am a little nervous for when I change hospitals later this year to work in an emergency room. Even so, I’ve only run into 2 bad wards out of 8, not counting the rest of the hospital I work at (which has 1 ward with a bad reputation out of 12.)

Sorry if that was all a bit disjointed!

I’ll be the first to admit that I know more about the other two female-dominant professions I mentioned–teaching and non-comissioned retail sales–but I don’t think that advancement is that simple everywhere, nor was that always that case. My mother-in-law was a nurse at a tiny county hospital and before that in a series of nursing homes, and when her knees started to give out (severe hereditary rickets), she couldn’t find anything to to with her degree that didn’t involve being on her feet administrating patient care without going back and getting a master’s. In the days when becoming an RN was a 2-year degree, I don’t think there were nearly as many options for nurses and it was a much more static field–and that’s where the “nurses eat their young” meme developed.

Where to start? While I am glad that in Australia things seem to be looking up (or you are in an excellent health care setting–I suggest staying there), I don’t think that is true for American nursing.

Couple of caveats: I can only speak to my own experience and what I have observed over the years in several different acute care settings. Also, there are indeed hospitals and other settings where nursing staff is supportive of one another and a team mentality exists. I know this is true, but have not been fortunate enough to find one of these places. (that truly is not sarcastic–I haven’t found such a place).

I really don’t have a lot of time today–and fully exploring this issue could take years. I’ll do what little I can to shed some light (as best I can).
I’ve been an RN for 20+ years. When I graduated in 1984, IV pumps were just starting to be seen on specialty units. I had to learn the apothecary system of measurement as well as the metric, “to serve those older physicians who prefer this method”. I was to give up my seat at the nurse’s station for any MD who came on the unit. I wore white. No cap (I was not capped-an edgy thing for my nursing college to do). I still cannot call docs by their first names(even the ones 20 years younger than I)–not only do they not invite me (or the staff) to do so, it is frowned on by administration. Some things die slowly.

Couple of things: nursing is a conservative profession that changes slowly. Or rather, the culture of it changes slowly. The technology and practices change all too rapidly! Just like medicine, we are faced daily with new research, new “best practices”, new drugs and treatments. This can lead to not only anxiety but also stress when doing our job. (I have had it happen that something I did on Monday is against policy on Friday due to new findings. That is all to the good because it improves pt care, but it can leave you feeling somewhat battered and unsure of your knowledge base!)
Re the eating the young stuff. YES. It happens and on a spectrum no matter where you work. It is endemic and pervasive and can be toxic, IMO. Maybe if I tell you what happened to me, you can extrapolate some generalizations that may help you. Not all of this happened to me, but enough of it did where I feel I can write about it with confidence that it does occur often.

Me: Doctor and nurse’s daughter (mom was Director of an ED); graduated with BSN and passed Boards. Entered the job market during the last nursing “glut” in the mid 80s. Was offered a job of newborn nursery nights–I would not use any skills there (that I wanted to), so went to my mother’s old hospital(she had moved on to direct prison nursing), and was hired immediately for med/surg.
[the fact that I was related to a former administrator and personally knew a VP was an onus that naive me had no clue I would almost never overcome]

Med/surg: nurse/pt ratio in 1985 was one RN to 18 pts. yes, 18. HMOs were just hitting and there were still some people in the hospital for “tests” and things like “pelvic traction”. For those of medical background reading this, we were still doing Domborough soaks (sp?) and pouring Betadine into bedsores. You were castigated in nursing school for “demeaning the pt by touching him with gloved hands”. We’ve come a long way…

The ratio now for med/surg is 1:8-9. Still too high, but much better! I had 2 aides “working” under me. 3 RNs to a floor with 36 pts on it. I never so much as knew my pts’ names. I knew their treatments, meds, IVs and maybe their labs. There was no time for teaching, for comfort, for lunch. This was a hellish environment–truly chaos.

Given this, like foot soldiers on the front in battle, there was precious little comfort or support to be had. Any sign of weakness was a real threat to the precarious appearance of “care” being given. You learned quickly not to cry at work, not to ask for help–because those things showed weakness. Asking for help got you scathing commentary on your abilities as a nurse and your character as a person. I wish I were exaggerating. I was told that those were my call lights and I had to answer them, never mind whatever other emergency I had going on (or if I needed to go to the bathroom). It was sick. Taking concerns to the NM was a dead end, but here is where some of the “femaleness” of this comes into play:

Nurses tend to be people pleasers–they want to help. Some of us truly must help or suffer anxiety if we are not allowed to do so (not me). Nurses also tend to be young women–a demographic for which it is still overwhelmingly true that the disease to please is strong. And nurses also tend to come from dysfunctional home environments, where boundaries and limits are fuzzy at best. Not true for all nurses, certainly, but enough that I feel I need to mention it.

Couple that with the natural insecurities that lie in anyone just starting in a high stress profession and we have a crucible that can lead to dangerous situations. Let’s face it: if the new administrative assistant screws up a file, that’s bad. But nobody died. Nobody had an anaphylatic reaction or had a vital symptom missed. That is not to say that admin. ass’ts are necessary and their work unimportant, I’m just trying to communicate the underlying stress that all nurses work with (other health care professionals too).

So, we have (so far) an untried nurse, a young woman who needs to please, someone who may not be able to recognize or articulate healthy boundaries and a chaotic and stressful environment that has an entrenched culture that is suspicious of new people (who can you trust in the jungle?), desperate for support and afraid to show that need. This is not a good environment for learning or nursing.

Now let’s turn to the nursing hierarchy, which despite many, many changes in practice and staffing etc, still remains at heart a military, top-down one. There is little to no collaboration between hospitals or even units within a single hospital (at least not in the southern half of the city of Chicago and its surrounding suburbs).

Docs think nothing of attempting to get support (aka consultation) from another colleague on staff, and if that doesn’t pan out–they say things like, “Melanie is over at U of C. Her team has done some work with X treatment. I’ll give her a call” even though Dr Tom works for Northwestern and hasn’t seen Melanie since the last GU conference or whatever. That simply does not occur in nursing. It can and it should. (actually, it does occur–at the academic level and in some of the subspecialties like wound care. But it is not a regular thing).

back to the hierarchy–so essentially, you now have these little fiefdoms of power–in reverse order: CNA, student nurse, graduate nurse, LPN, RN, assistant nurse manager, nurse manager, director of unit(s), nursing supervisor(on par with unit directors), director of nursing or VP of nursing. Edicts come from on high and are handed down as such. Very little gets from CNA back to VPN. We are often asked to things with little to no explanation of why the changes are needed. Sure, you can ask–and get no real response except for one like, “Joint commission is coming”. or “the VP wants it done that way.” And if you have a suggestion for a change? You can tell your NM, and hope s/he finds it good, but it won’t come to anything until it’s gone through several committees and final approval of the VPN.

Is it any wonder that those in the trenches then look for stuff they can control? Power is power, no matter if it’s the power to shame a newbie. And there actually is some twisted logic in that–you better be tough out there or you will die–or kill someone. Like those cultures who let kids play with fire because “it’s the only way they learn to respect or fear it”–that’s nursing to new grads.
More later.

All I can say is I’m glad as hell I don’t work in the US then! Everyone’s who’s worked for 20 odd years has got similiar sounding horror stories and I’ll readily say that nursing here was still like it was then I’d never had entered the profession. It really does seem to be a generational thing at times since the older nurses (not all of them, of course!) are the ones to be sickiningly deferential to the doctors, to work themselves to the bone without asking for overtime, and to be reluctant to accept offered help. The younger ones such as myself (and I use young to mean anyone who’s done their training in the last 15 years or so) treat everyone like colleagues (including the docs, who we’re all on first name basis with except for the oldies who call them “Doctor” at all times), are more than happy to give and recieve help and advice, and in general are less stressed! I’m speaking in generalities, of course, but I think it’s true.

On my ward we trend the acuitity of patients so heavier patients get more time allocated: in practice it means that if you’ve got a bunch of light patients (say a bunch of lap-bands/appendectomies) you can have up to 7 patients on a day shift; if you have really clinically intense patients you can have as few as 3. I work in a private hospital so if we accept more patients than we have staff it can get a bit hairy (happens mostly with emergency admissions on night shift, my worst has been 15 patients at once) but in a public hospital they simply close beds if they don’t have the staff to cover, and refuse admissions until they do.

I am one of the more outspoken people who work here, it’s true, but if anyone ever tried to pull some of the shit on me that you describe they’d get what for – and I know that any of the people I work with who graduated in the last 15 years would do the same! If I have an outlie from another specialty area I know that if I call the ward they’d usually be sent to any of the RN’s would help as best they could. The closest we’d get to seeing a different area as an adversary is hoarding equipment, but that’s mostly because loaned equipment rarely comes back and every ward’s meant to have their own budget.

Basically, the nursing shortage coupled with plenty of different career opportunities elsewhere for everyone has made everyone really have to pull their heads in here and treat us fairly. I mean, if someone treats me badly and I tell them to get fucked, unless I’m actually endangering a patient (which I’d never do) they’re not going to fire me since finding a replacement is not exactly easy in our understaffed times!

By the way, I take exception to “And there actually is some twisted logic in that–you better be tough out there or you will die–or kill someone. Like those cultures who let kids play with fire because “it’s the only way they learn to respect or fear it”–that’s nursing to new grads.” At least, the way it’s done here. If a new grad fucks up and kills a patient the person who’ll cop in will be the nurse in charge, the other nurses they’re on with and possibly even the doc. “I wasn’t given help and am inexperienced” is a perfectly valid excuse if the shit hits the fan and everyone knows it, so helping the junior members of staff is neccessary from a practical standpoint as well as an ethical one.

I’ve been an RN for almost 12 years and I have not seen the “young eating” on any type of large scale.
I’ve read many stories of it however on a nursing board I frequent. What it seems, is that many new, young nurses have a hard time accepting directness and bluntness from seasoned nurses. They then state “they’re being mean to me”. Most of the time it’s unfounded, there are those occasional instances where the experienced nurse is just a jerk.

My personal example: When I first started out, I was assigned to a floor where the nurses had a reputation of being “tough”. So I was a little apprehensive but it worked out fine. I have a strong, dominant personality and people can see that and wouldn’t try crap with me.

Now being young and new with a meeker personality might have a different ending. I think if many of these women just stand up for themselves OR don’t take everything personally, they might be better off. Most nurses in hospitals don’t have the time to hand hold a new nurse. It kind of sucks but that’s the way it is.

When I worked in Surgical ICU, there was one new nurse and she caught a hard time. She had worked in a nursing home but never a hospital and she was unsure of herself and slow. The rest of the nurses let her know that she was slow and she would cry all the time. I and another nurse tried to give her pep talks and hints on what NOT to do and eventually she caught on.

So do I think it happens a lot? No I don’t. I think it’s something that does happen in every profession to some degree.

I think that’s a valid hypothesis. I’ve seen a number of workforces where people get extraordinarily petty about things that are relatively minor and insignificant.

I’ve seen it a lot in consulting as well. Normally consulting is a very dynamic career with a lot of upward potential. Unless you are in a slow period. When that happens, opportunities close off. There aren’t as many projects which means less billable hours and fewer opportunities. All of a sudden, people get very petty and underhanded.

Exactly. Many times it helps in nursing to have that kind of personality. It’s a tough job for tough people.

So does anybody have direct experience of actual hazing? I just try to imagine my fellow librarians locking young me in the supply closet or something and can’t do it.

The closest I’ve ever gotten to hazing someone was when I got in an argument with a nursing student over who was easier to catheterize, men or women. He said men cause his lecturers told him that the prostate can make it hard to push in a catheter sometimes. I said women because, especially in older (like 70+) women, it can be very hard to find the urethra among all the folds down there. I won the argument by making him do a female catheter when a patient needed one instead of letting him watch someone else do it. (Yes, it does sound unfair on the patient but she was demented and how else is he going to learn?)

(bolding mine)

That’s disgusting. :mad: How does having dementia make a patient less deserving of respect or dignty? Had this student even observed how to cath a female before? It sounds like you deliberately picked her since she wasn’t capable of complaining.

And… here we go.

Younger, “meeker” --you can describe it as you wish (I did so to give a context as to how some of this happens, not to say that all new nurses are either young or “meek”). I am tired of having this problem, which dogs this profession, dismissed or minimized. Several here didn’t or don’t experience it–good. Nice to know. That does not mean that it does not exist. On almost every unit there seems to be at least one person who is known to be “difficult” and is either worked around or catered to–could be the unit secretary, an aide, the NM, another RN, anyone. There is a tangled mass of power struggles, referential power, skeletons in closets and who knows about them kind of thing and some outright bullying. Most offices or departments have something similar, if folks are truly honest about it.

I think that if you had tried that strong personality in another, more toxic setting, you may not have had the same results. I have witnessed physical confrontation between an RN and a CNA(aide was pushing the nurse and telling her she wouldn’t do what the nurse had told her to do. I was taking a body to the morgue with another nurse at the time. I called the nursing supervisor to the scene, stat. Guess who got in trouble aka written up? I did-for “interfering”. Oh, the aide got talked to; the RN denied any pushing, though and everything went back to “normal”). I have heard about RN to RN fist fights as well (only one other) I have seen doctors, red in the face, screaming in the hallway at a nurse-in front of family, pts and other staff. Not much was done, frankly. I have full urinals thrown at me by pts–non-senile pts, mind you. Workplace violence (and I include eating our young in that) is quite common in nursing.

It is most emphatically not a generational thing. IMO, nursing in America is quite different from Australia, due to cultural and national differences in approaches to health care. We don’t have National Health Service vs Private pay. There is no weighting of assignments per acuity here–except in ED and ICU. There is not enough staff for such a luxury. On very rare occasions, you may see a NM come and make assignments in such a way, but usually the day shift pt load is made by the previous night shift. Every attempt is made to keep each nurse’s assignment the “same” in terms of acuity (balanced) and also from shift to shift (for continuity–better for pt and nurse).
One thing I have seen over the years is a willingness to take a nurse off a pt who bothers me or there is a personality conflict. That did not occur when I was a younger nurse.

As for actual hazing: I was pulled into the clean utility room and told that no one liked me and that I had better shape up(this by the assistant NM). When pressed for reasons “no one liked me” (after 3 weeks of orientation), I was told “they just don’t. And stop asking questions[of your preceptor].” Please don’t tell me this doesn’t happen. I needed the job, but made sure I got off that floor ASAP–and into critical care, where competition of a different sort awaited.

ICU nurses like to think highly of themselves–I did so myself, once I knew something. There is nothing wrong with taking pride in your skills and making a difference. The problem comes when a nurse forgets that s/he was new once, too. Once, s/he didn’t know a balloon pump from a hypothermia machine or MAT from SVT. We all have to start somewhere; IMO, some of the eating of the young comes from unrealistic expectations on the part of the preceptor and other staff. It doesn’t have to be active, in your face hazing. Just feeling unable to ask a question is very bad in nursing–it’s a field where stuff should be bounced off other staff all the time. A LOT of nurses don’t want to lose face by doing so, though–and the younger nurses learn the culture of not asking.

Also, I think nurses tend to not know a whole lot (ironically enough) about educational theory–god knows we’ve been exposed to enough of it. New orientees don’t learn stuff from being exposed to it once–especially stuff like new forms and (most importantly) prioritizing your tasks. Such skills ONLY come with time and experience–something all newbies lack. Put that with the fact that most preceptors are assigned their task (and may be horrible teachers) due to staffing, NOT “fit”–that’s another recipe for major stress.

trenchant–that is NOT the way it works here in USA. Each RN has her own license. Yes, she can claim or state that she was new and overwhelmed etc, but her actions rest with her alone. Her charge nurse or NM may also get into trouble, but that RN is not cut slack because she’s “new”.

I am very critical of nursing as a whole–to me it is a profession that could be as politically powerful as the AMA and other professional lobbyists, and yet we do not work together as a group. We STILL cannot come to consensus on the minimum educational standard for field entry. No other health care profession is as messed up as nursing is. They (we) were arguing about making the BSN the entry level degree when my mother graduated from her diploma program in 1951. We were arguing about it when I graduated from my BSN college in 1984. We are still arguing about it-20+ years on. We will be in another 20 years, unless nursing has been passed over for yet another fragmentation of the health care system.
I am taken aback by the whole cathing of the dementia pt story. Did she need to be cathed? Surely this “dilemma” could have been solved via discussion and not using a pt as “proof”? Cathing either sex has its own unique difficulties–one is not “easier” than the other.

Catitude–I think we are talking about matters of degree. I agree that it is a tough job and requires “tough” people. Thing is–how is that toughness acquired? Is it through learning experiences and mistakes with a decent preceptor or is it through being mocked and derided for being new? There is a difference.

I don’t buy this “older nurses are blunt” stuff. Sure, we can (and are) direct, but like anything else, directness should not be a cover for rudeness or unprofessionalism. It’s one thing to tell a new RN that she did X incorrectly and be shown how to do it right. It’s quite another to be told, “what are you doing? You passed boards? How?”

One is direct and needed; the other is character assassination and uncalled for. It’s anyone’s call which a new orientee gets.

As for hand holding–yes, new nurses do need their hands held. These are the people who will be answering my call light. If I can support as many of them as I can before I leave the profession, perhaps most of them will 1. stay in the profession which has problems retaining it’s brain power aka experienced nurses and 2. pass on the “favor” I’ve done for them and even “pay it forward.” It is up to us to change our profession into what we’d like it to be, IOW, it starts with us.

Here are some links to hazing in nursing. I have not read through all of them.

blog
This one is from the ANA. Very well done.
lateralviolence&nursing

You can also go onto allnurses.com and just put in horizontal violence and see what comes up. Or google horizontal violence and nursing like I did.

I’ll try to find specific articles re eating our young, too. I know that RN has done a number of articles about this phenomenom.

eleanorigby, thank you for your insight on this topic. Your experience in this area matches my own more removed experiences.

I suppose I should clarify the “pay it forward” bit. Once I got established in ICU and had some time to breathe, I looked around and thought–this is not right. So, I decided that if I was to ever be in the preceptor position to do it right. I have kept that promise to myself (and it wasn’t easy). Now I willingly take on students and new orientees. I tell them we each have stuff to learn from one another. It can be difficult to gauge their comfort level and skill levels at first, but we work that out. I am one of the few nurses in my hospital who volunteers for preceptorship.

but every orientee is told by me, once they have “graduated”, to watch their back on whatever unit or hospital they end up in. Put your trust in your skills and your critical thinking, not the kindness or “team spirit” of your coworkers and you won’t go far wrong. Common sense, really, no matter your profession.

Just to add my own remarks…

I’ve been a nurse since 1985. I graduated during a glut (worked in a mall jewelry store for six months) and then got hired when the shortage hit, and it’s been shortage ever since.

New nurses are often unhappy, and for good reasons. The work is not what they were led to expect or exposed to during nursing school. It’s harder, dirtier, and more demanding. The pace of change is unbelievable. New nurses are expected to take the least desirable shifts, jobs and tasks. The first year is very difficult due to ‘reality shock’. Few more experienced nurses have the time or low stress levels needed to be a really good mentor to the new ones. All this brings out the very worst, and leads to the ‘eating our own’ atmosphere. To be fair, the worst treatment I got as a new RN was from male nurses - it bordered on harassment. The women I learned from were tough but fair.

I can’t say with any honesty I believe this is a female environment problem. I’m still working in nursing. The difference is I’m working in a large call center, there are no nights, weekends, or holidays, the pay is hospital-equivalent, the perks and benefits, including a bonus program, are many, and the company has recently been named a ‘top 100 places to work for’ by Fortune Magazine (#80, I think). The ‘eating our own’ thing is entirely absent in this job, and it’s still about 95% female nurses, including the leadership. I have never been so well treated or supported (for the most part; there are always exceptions) in a job.

I think the employer’s attitude towards nurses makes a difference. Most hospitals are locked in an attitude that’s badly out of date. They pay lip service to respecting nurses, but don’t really do much about it. The field is, though, getting to a point where a graduate nurse need never work a hospital job at all and go directly into something else, and I think that, more than anything else, may help force change. I hope so.

Me, too–and other nurses just look at me in amazement when I say it was HARD to find a job just out of school! :slight_smile:

Fair enough. I will only add that the only sexual harassment suit that I know of was one involving a male nurse and female nurse. She depants him in the nurse’s station–all in “good fun”. She was let go. And rightly so.

That sounds great–good for you! I haven’t made it clear that I don’t place these problems are the fact that it is a female dominated profession. IMO, there are issues in nursing that are exacerbated by it being primarily female. As someone said upthread, any field that is gender dominated will have such issues–the issues will differ, depending on the gender. Whoever said the bit about the competition via “cooperation” was spot on.

Yes, yes, yes. No matter how much lip service administration gives to “respect” etc, a nurse is a nurse is a nurse to them. Did you know that in many hospitals nursing services is listed under housekeeping–in with the room charge? PT and dietary(RDs) and RT were smart–they made sure to become independent of that sort of categorization.

I also think that there will be major shifts in attitude because so many entering the field now are doing so from other fields, plus more men are entering. If it does nothing else, it should dilute this entrenched culture that has proven so toxic to many.

ETA: that blog I cited above–he really likes the word fuck and he is somewhat of a rabble rouser–I would not access that for a measured look at this problem.

Do any nurses think it’s a problem that has anything to do with public perception of nurses as “doctor’s secretaries”? I saw an episode of Scrubs a while ago that just dropped my jaw with ignorance of nursing as its own field, and I don’t even know that much about nursing! (Seriously, it was downright offensive.) Do you think it’s an issue in nursing and not so much doctoring because doctoring is a prestige profession?

I never meant that directness should be allowed to cover up rudeness. Matter of fact I did say that some nurses are jerks. Just as some Dr’s, aides, admin’s, hskpg. staff are as well. I just think that the “eating young” issue has gotten out of hand as it is used so much that it’s lost it’s meaning. I don’t think that anyone has the right to be condescending or unprofessional towards a coworker. I just honestly haven’t seen this happening on a large scale.

I think there are isolated incidents but that occurs in most workplaces. Before I was a nurse, I was a correctional officer at a large male state prison. It happened there too, it’s workplace bullying and it’s not limited to nursing. Again, it wasn’t happening on a large scale at the prison either.

I think there are new nurses that have a legitimate beef. I also think there are new nurses that are crying wolf. I’ve seen instances of both.

Re: “handholding”. Again, my meaning may not be clear. I fully support new nurses and have always been the type that have newbies flocking to me. My managers have always noticed this too so I am supportive. However, that doesn’t mean smiles and hugs when a new nurse seriously screws up because she was yapping on the phone with her boyfriend. I’ve seen bad things happen and a newbie gets told her/his mistake and then they bitch about it. Rudeness and unprofessionalism can happen on the part of the newb as well.

I think that we’re on the same side as far as wantting better things for our profession. I also think that many situations are changed because of people’s perceptions. This is why a questionable situation may occur and you and I see it two different ways. You and I being a generalization of all nurses. I’ve seen many nurses insist that “eating young” is a horrible epidemic and many that say they just haven’t experienced/witnessed it. People in general need to treat others better, in all walks of life.