Do other 8 year old girls enjoy Sex and the City?

Cafe Society
61

I’ve never watched SatC so I can’t address that. I have some thoughts on this aspect though:

I do think though that even if a child can indulge in forbidden behavior at a friend’s house (be it watching a racy show, playing a violent video game or eating junk food to take some hypothetical examples) that there is still value in a parent’s making a stand that we don’t do (whatever) at our house. One obviously can’t control what goes on at other people’s houses but kids are at least clear on where their parents stand.

Our best friends growing up had a mother who hated TV. The only TV they owned was relegated to the workshop, the kids could watch half an hour a day on school nights (this was before cable or VCRs) and they had to watch it out there. When they came to our house they were allowed to watch as much as we did (which in retrospect was probably too much, but that is another story). Their mother didn’t try to control their behavior at our house but there was no question what her values were. The kids grew up to be quite succesful people FWIW.
That’s my working hypothesis anyway: that parents can only control what goes on in their house, but they shouldn’t avoid doing it simply because other people may not believe what they do.

My one and only child is four, I will let you know in 14 or so years how it works out.

62

Another problem in the way Abbie mentioned role models-these girls may not want to act like the gals on SATC, but they may want to start dressing like them, and look like them. Where do our young girls get such negative body images?

We complain about Britney Spears being a poor example for young girls, and are horrified at girls as young as five dressing like her. I wouldn’t want my hypothetical daughter dressing like Kim Catrall or Sarah Jessica Parker when she’s 8 years old.

The raunchiest shows I ever saw as a kid were Night Court or Three’s Company, and even then, a lot of the humor flew completely over my head.
As for Judy Blume books, they are GEARED towards children. SATC is not. What’s wrong with letting kids be kids? What’s the hurry for them to grow up?

Again, people nowadays have no concept of moderation. It’s all or nothing. You either let them watch everything that’s ever on TV, up to and including porn, or you totally lock them away from it all and never let them see anything? That’s a disturbing attitude.

63

I can see some objections about an 8 year old watching it, though I think it’s better that she’s watching it with her parents than alone. Hell, I remember watching The Accused on TV with my parents when I was about that age (they made me cover my eyes during the rape, but I could still hear it). But 16 or 18? It wasn’t too long ago when I was in high/middle school and my parents would let me watch “The Larry Sanders Show” with them because there was swearing and sex in it. Never mind that[ul]
[li]My dad can be quite the swearer, especially if his sports teams aren’t doing so well[/li][li]I read. A lot. Lots of swearing and sex in there[/li][li]My bedroom used to be right next to my parents. I won’t lie and say I never heard them having sex[/li]I heard a lot worse at school[/ul]

64

I wholeheartedly concur with you Guin about certain role models displaying their images negatively and young, impressionable girls imitating them, resulting in horrible body issues. So, you’re right there. But my point was, that at least back when I was a kid and idolizing ol’ Donna, I knew the difference between what was acceptable for play only and not for everything else. And if I didn’t, or had any preconceived notions about what I ought to be able to wear or who I could look like, my mother set me straight very quick. No ifs, ands or buts. I had NO say in the matter and henceforth, there was no problem.

Specifically I can remember one incident of wanting to don a cloth-like red halter top of hers to SixFlags. Crying on my end erupted swiftly, spanking followed from her and the last I recall of that article of clothing was it being cut down the middle. I guess she didn’t want it anymore either, although I doubt feeling the need to set a good example occurred to her.

I do know that Judy Blume’s books are almost entirely devoted to the age bracket we’re talking about. However, I was trying (apparently in an incredibly inept fashion) to say that I learned more about the ‘adult’ world from that than from anything truly classified that way. Just what happened to me though.

In conclusion, I don’t think anyone doesn’t want children to enjoy their formative years. But they are just that… formative. I certainly don’t want them to hurry and grow up. It can be scary out there and fast paced and depressing and confusing and all sorts of other things. On the other hand, it can also be wonderful and helpful and interesting and fun. If we have the right tools and skills to cope with it, make good decisions and learn from our mistakes. If you really think anyone in this thread is advocating an “all or nothing” approach, could you please point it out to me? Because I honestly haven’t seen one and I don’t want to have missed it and be rattling off an erroneous opinion from neither side of the fence.

65

I grew up in the 1970’s. My mother wouldn’t even let me watch The Mary Tyler Moore Show. When I saw reruns on Nick at Nite I realized her decision was completely right.

The topics discussed on SatC are simply not appropriate for an eight year old.

Fuck buddy is not a term an eight year old should understand.

It’s bad enough our society pushes early puberty and sexualization on young children. I don’t want to speed the process any further along.

66

Good lordy. Two things I’ve gotta say:

  1. Forgive me, and I’m sorry for bringing what are probably my own issues into this, but I’m getting vaguely nauseous thinking about a father/eight-year-old daughter combo watching graphic adult sex hijinks together. That puts the “ick” in “squickiness.”

Yes, I’m sure there’s nothing wrong going on here, 'cause I strongly doubt roger thornhill would be bragging about it if there were, but personally? This is just giving me a case of the raging heebie jeebies. (It’s not helped by envisioning a little girl sitting on the knee of a Alfred Hitchcock character!)

  1. I have an eight year old niece, whom I’ll call “S” for no particular reason. Preamble: They don’t live in some remote Amish village, nor does my niece attend some elite repressed private/religious school – hell, she lives in Brooklyn and goes to a public school. They all lead a typically harried, middle-class NYC metropolitan life. Both parents work outside the home and since they have no household help or nannies, they make sure S. has lots of playdates, piano lessons and arts/crafts groups to act as babysitters and time occupiers until her Mom & Dad get home. (Dad fortunately can spend a couple of days working from home, so he’s around if S. has a playdate in their apartment or if she just wants to hang out by herself.)

Despite their busy-ness and city life, somehow S. is pretty much having a happy, fun and fairly innocent childhood. I’m happy to report that she has expressed no interest yet in graphic sex jokes and even less in spurting genitalia during orgasms.

I think the reason for this (IMHO entirely appropriate) ignorance/innocence is that neither the Web nor the TV are the default entertainers in their household. Sadly this is not the norm, at least so it would seem. But my sister and bro-in-law don’t have HBO or other premium cable channels, and the TV is not switched on the first second anyone enters the house. Actually, most TV viewing is in the form of DVDs or videotapes – S. loves DVDs of Harry Potter, Disney films, and especially movie musicals like The King and I and My Fair Lady or ballets like Swan Lake. Although admittedly, HGTV’s home improvement shows have long been a mom/daughter bonding experience. :slight_smile:

As for the Web, S’s time on it is largely limited to school hours (where she has a class in computers), and when she’s on the Web at home she’s generally supervised. And one or the other of her parents reads to her every night.

Her parents aren’t prudes or repressed by any stretch, and they answer any questions in a forthright and honest manner. They explain their decisions/beliefs without apologizing for them or dumbing them down. And perhaps most important, they have shown that they trust her by allowing for some compromises on some issues, if S. shows that she’s able to handle whatever it is that she’s seeking approval for.

In short, they show respect both for her and for the preciousness of childhood in general. I think S. senses this respect, and as a result she seems pretty trusting of them in turn, and understanding that sometimes the parents know best.

She ain’t a paragon, of course – they definitely have arguments when S. doesn’t agree! But when they tell her “nope, ____ isn’t really appropriate for you right now, give it a couple years, okay?” my niece basically shrugs and says “'kay.” Or rolls her eyes at the general lameness of adults – and still abides by their decision. A tantrum may be thrown now and then, but it fades away before too long.

Now I’m sure that’ll change in a couple of years, heh. S. is gonna be one hella handful very soon, what with her smarts, snarky sense of humor, confidence and independent streak! But for now I’m relieved to see that she lives a very age-appropriate, happily childlike existence.

All this detail is not to hold S. up as the Ideal Girlchild, nor to laud my sister’s unique brilliance at raising a child. I’m saying that even in this oh-so-sexually/vioently mature world, keeping your kids curious, intelligent but still healthily naive is not impossible – and I doubt it’s as rare as people seem to think it is. At least, I hope not.

Seriously, folks: whatever happened to letting kids be KIDS?

67

And this is why I don’t watch much TV at all. Characters who are redemable only in the context of fantasy land are not redemable at all, IMO.

68

And it isn’t because…? Honestly. Parents to some degree control their children. I can’t really believe you’re suggesting that parents puting limitations on their children despite the children’s desires is a bad thing, but that’s how that reads to me.

Nice to meet you, sven, I for one was raised on a very limited TV intake of PBS and some other specific programs, and I am far far far from a TV junkie. There goes one absolute out the window. :slight_smile:

Also:

You made a post with a lot of good points, and this is perhaps a bit off-topic, but the idea that boys ‘enjoy’ locker-room talk and are comfortable with pornography at a young age seems to be one of the giant myths of the age. Some do, sure, but there are many who are uncomfortable with the machismo from their fellow 12 year olds, and who wonder if they are responding appropriately to pornography they hardly understand. Locker-room talk, and locker-room mentality is a patently unhealthy way in general for boys to learn how to be men in the context of relationships. It’s a giant game that is only enjoyed by those who come out on top.

Anyway, I’m rambling on about that enough for now.

69

Anyone remember this episode , in which Samantha was so weirded out by a 13-year-old girl who dis[played such sexualized behavior? I wonder what she would think of an 8-year-old girl being so into the show?
(Yes, yes, I know…Samantha is fiction and, as such, has no concept of “the show”. I’m just sayin’)

I wholeheartedly agree with those who say that there is a middle ground between throwing all the TVs away and letting kids watch whatever the hell they feel like.

70

I honestly expected a lot more parents to come here and say, “Yes, my 8 year old loves it to!” I’m surprised at the reactions. My overall opinion is with AHunter3’s. Age 8 was the year I saw Dirty Dancing, and I wanted to emulate Patrick Swayze, not that floozy who was stupid enough to get pregnant.

71

The Common Sense post closing from choie

72

I’m desirous of seeing this “appropriateness” discussion expanded in a more appropriate venue. This topic is now a Great Debate thread, here.

73

I dunno – it’s not necessarily axiomatic that “sexually naive” = “healthy.”

Really, how do you arrive at the conclusion that Sex in the City is unhealthy for eight-year-olds because it acknowledges that people have sex?

We’re not talking about Fisting Nuns Volume Twelve, here. The show is largely about people dealing realistically with intimate relationships. Sometimes they make poor choices and it makes them unhappy. Becaue it’s TV, they nearly always figure out the important stuff.

Look, around the age of twelve or thirteen most kids are suddenly going to be extremely preoccupied with sex. Not relationships, sex.. How does it profit us to try to keep them insulated from things concerning the subject until the very last minute, and then try to give them a crash course? Why have such rigid delineations between “juvenile,” “teen,” and “adult” material? Is it helping? I mean, under the current (and by no means historic) model we have in North America, people typically try to insulate juveniles from the concept of sexual relationships, except in the vaguest possible ways. Then, teen entertainment consists of totally unrealistic idealized relationships, or worse, strictly puerile teen sex comedies.

I think, in all probabilty, a kid who’s interested in a sex-and-relationships program like Sex in the City has a better chance of approaching relationships in a balanced way when puberty pulls the rug out from underneath them. The depictions of sex in SitC aren’t going to make a nine-year-old rush out and engage in analingus at the earliest opportunity. Yeah, Samantha’s character exhibits some promiscuous and amoral behaviour. She’s also conspicuously unhappy – until she grows up a bit and settles down. I can’t think of anything in the show that is likely to foster bad morals. Really, it’s as wholesome as milk.

The idea of a strict adult things/child things dichotomy is actually a relatively recent development, and I don’t think it’s particularly helpful to withold all information about sex until kids are on the threshold of puberty. On the contrary, I think it’s a recipe for trouble.

Is it a natural law that most kids reach physical sexual maturity without really having a clue what the whole deal is about, or is that just an unfortunate situation that we’ve created for ourselves?

74

First, please understand that I am not a prude. I intend to discuss sex and all other topics quite openly with my kids, I think nudity is great (as long as it’s not too cold), and swearing is a perfectly valid form of communication. I also acknowledge that there is a continuum of sexual activity along which children travel, rather than a bright line between “for children” and “for adults.”

And I am horrified that someone would revel in allowing their eight-year-old to watch SatC.

Just as **PunditLisa ** said, the characters are enjoyable only because they are fictional. If I knew people in real life who acted the way they do, I would consider them stupid, shallow, and pathetic.

I don’t care about the explicit sex on the show. I care about the messages it could send to a person who is not terribly able to separate fantasy from reality, who is trying to begin building a sexual (and all-around) identity, who doesn’t have the capability to critically analyze the subtext of the show.

On one level, the blithe disregard for the consequences of promiscuity and sex with near-strangers bugs me. I’m not an abstinence-only type, and I actually hope my kids have sex before they get married. But the fact is, if you jump in bed with dozens of people, don’t consistently use condoms, and have sex with people you hardly know, you are exposing yourself to a lot of risk. Sure, adults generally know this and can brush it off as just a comedy show, but I shudder to think of a child learning about sexual behavior from this show.

On a deeper, more subversive level, this show has disastrous teachings for girls about love, sex, and self-worth. The characters constantly obsess about finding a man to complete their lives. Charlotte and Carrie are more obvious about this. It at first appears that Miranda and Samantha are more modern women - one more interested in her career than fulfillment via love, the other entirely eschewing love in favor of fun, entanglement-free sex. And yet by the final episode, the show brings them into line, with Miranda realizing that she’s only truly happy as a dutiful wife/mother/daughter-in-law, and even Samantha becoming dependent on her one true love.

Don’t get me wrong - I really loved this show. I enjoyed the frank, modern sexuality of the women. I wanted Miranda to wake up and marry Steve, and I *adored * Jerry/Smith. But I have a lot of experience and a pretty solid identity, and I can put it all in context. I just can’t imagine showing this to a child.

I also happen to believe that parenting involves protecting your children, which includes controlling a lot of what they see and do. Call me crazy.

75

That’s why I said healthily naive, not living in fantasyland naive!

C’mon, did you watch SiTC regularly? The focus wasn’t on normal, positive sexual relationships. Wouldn’t have been funny if it had been. (And it didn’t always succeed anyway, LOL.) Instead we got different freakish and objectified male sex partners each week, and women pretending to be lesbians because it was chic, dumping guys for having bad-tasting sperm, getting squirted in the face while watching others have sex, having men urinate on them, mocking a guy who lost a testicle due to cancer, cheating on their own longterm relationship by screwing a married guy, and caring/thinking/talking about nothing but fucking, cunts and dicks all the livelong day through.

Adults and older teens are able to have the proper perspective and know that we’re supposed to find these ladies somewhat pathetic and humorous. Even a highly mature 12 or 13 year old could be ready for this kinda stuff.

An eight year old little girl? EIGHT? No. Just no.

76

Maybe I should be watching Sex in the City.

77

Not to get into anymore specifics about her exact age here, but can’t the same be said of the above about entertainment geared towards children? I grew up believing that someday my prince would come and I wasn’t complete until then. Or like Snow White, I’d need one to save me. And there’s lots and lots more examples from contemporary -and- antiquated sources. I realize that very overt sexual references are not on the same par with those aimed at romanticizing the heart or giving focus to particular daydream/fantasies. However, I can certainly tell you that, for me and many, many women I know, it was the latter that was infinitely more damaging, both to my actual existence and inside my head and thought process, and has had the potential to permanently screw me up, make repeated bad choices and transfer what meaning I’d gotten from those early ‘lessons’ unto other areas. Of course, I’m still responsible for my actions. But that crap did so much harm, I guess I can’t imagine that being open and discussing this kind of thing with your child, creating a deeper bond and finding out where they’re at about this stuff (not to mention establishing the whole “I’m always here no matter what or how embarrassing it is, etc.” thing) and what all else might need to be taught.

Again though, this is all from someone who hasn’t seen hardly any SatC (I doubt one episode counts) nor has any children. So, as already stated, our mileages are obviously varying.

78

Hmm, I requested something along the lines of “insidious,” and my brain returned “subversive,” which means the opposite of what I was trying to convey.

Anyway, I forgot to add that I think would rather have my kid watch video of people actually having intercourse than many episodes of SatC.

79

I know one is hardly a statistically valid sampling, but the single episode of Sex and the City that I watched concerned one of the main characters going out with a fellow (I think this was a first date, but I’m not sure), who wanted to take a shower with her. It turned out to be a “golden shower” he was after.

Yes, I watch shows with my kids that involve some nudity, and when there are adult references, I tend to discuss them with the kids. I do not feel like having conversations with my children about people peeing on each other. That’s WAY over the top. I wouldn’t watch that with my 12-year-old, and I certainly wouldn’t have watched it with the kids when they were eight.

On the other hand, all parents have the right (and responsibility) to raise their children they way they think is appropriate, and all children are different. My daughter understood a lot more about sex when she was eight than my son does now at age twelve. If Roger feels that his daughter can handle something that intense, and chooses to watch it with her and explain/interpret/discuss as required, then good for him.

80

I guess I ought to say that my daughter invariably watches SATC with both her mum and dad (or with one or other - or both - of her two cousins). It’s not a specifically father-daughter bonding thing. That’s The Amazing Race.

We have stacks of copies of VCDs of early series on the shelves, but she has no interest in slipping them on when we’re not home. It’s the watching together, exploring together, enjoying together that she enjoys. And the interest and exploration mostly has to do with the non-sexual aspects, the relationships. Re the sex, my wife and I feel no need to discuss or explain every sexual reference (fellatio, golden showers, “lesbianism”, etc), but will chat with her about whatever might interest her. She appears to want to work out most of the mechanics of sexual activities for herself, so we rarely discuss that. But if she has a question, we’ll give her an answer.

From the beginning, we noted how she would sit there glued to the screen in a way that wasn’t the same for other programmes. Usually, she’ll sit with me (if it’s an English film) or her mum (if it’s Cantonese) and check things she doesn’t get, but with SATC from the start she was absorbed. Of course, as parents, we recognised that part of the not wanting to ask too many questions was the desire not to look “naive”, but we were cool with that. Now we can discuss pretty much anything that comes up, which often takes the form of banter as one of us, usually me, makes snarky comments about this or that. One game we play is to try to guess what Carrie is going to type as her episodic “bon mot” -“if…then why can’t women…?”.

AerynSun: isn’t watching a video of a man and a woman having sex - presumably in an educational video format - just guaranteed to put you off sex for life? There must be some je ne sais quoi, non?