# Do other species exhibit facial dimorphism between sexes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 11, 2014, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-other-species-exhibit-facial-dimorphism-between-sexes/683408 "2014-03-11T03:20:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-other-species-exhibit-facial-dimorphism-between-sexes/683408/21 "2014-03-11T15:09:48Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Telling me that there must be something wrong with me because I don’t see it doesn’t help to convince me. I’m curious. Do you really feel that you can’t distinguish most male faces from most female faces (recognizing that there is some percentage of overlap, as there is in most human features)? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-other-species-exhibit-facial-dimorphism-between-sexes/683408/22 "2014-03-11T18:28:55Z")
I’m not sure whether I could tell in the total absence of facial hair, adam’s apple, hair style and other clues. And these days I’d have to include eyebrows. Sure, it’s easy when we consider “average” examples, but there are way too many exceptions . . . especially in the very young and very old. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-other-species-exhibit-facial-dimorphism-between-sexes/683408/23 "2014-03-11T20:27:07Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > I’m not sure whether I could tell in the total absence of facial hair, adam’s apple, hair style and other clues. I’m pretty sure you would do much better than you think you could. Research has shown that most adults are very good at such distinctions. From this article (link to download pdf): [http://scholar.google.com/scholar\_url?hl=en&q=http://www.researchgate.net/publication/8460447\_Sex\_differences\_in\_face\_gender\_recognition\_in\_humans/file/9fcfd50f113e282713.pdf&sa=X&scisig=AAGBfm3oH5yfw74DMXEHb6\_a2xXCxCkLsw&oi=scholarr](http://scholar.google.com/scholar_url?hl=en&q=http://www.researchgate.net/publication/8460447_Sex_differences_in_face_gender_recognition_in_humans/file/9fcfd50f113e282713.pdf&sa=X&scisig=AAGBfm3oH5yfw74DMXEHb6_a2xXCxCkLsw&oi=scholarr) > [@](#): > > The human face presents a clear sexual dimorphism [7,10,11,18,19]. Face gender recognition is an extremely efficient and fast cognitive process [6]. Even when images are cropped to remove all cultural cues to gender such as hairstyle and make-up, gender classification is correct in almost 100% of the cases in adult subjects [6], whereas 7-years-old children already reach 80% accuracy in the same task [21]. These data clearly indicate that biological cues in facial anatomy are sufficient for a very efficient gender recognition and this ability is acquired early during childhood > [@panache45](#): > > Sure, it’s easy when we consider “average” examples, but there are way too many exceptions . . . especially in the very young and very old. The dimorphism mainly develops in adolescence, so that many children may not be easily distinguishable. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-other-species-exhibit-facial-dimorphism-between-sexes/683408/24 "2014-03-11T20:34:16Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Seriously? Are you saying you can’t distinguish male and female faces? Look around you. Most people can quite easily distinguish most male from most female faces independently of other cues. This is true regardless of the race of the individuals. Speaking as a biologist, I would think this is so blatantly obvious that it requires no cite. But for the record, here’s one of many: > > [An analysis of sexual dimorphism in the human face.](http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1101&context=csearticles) Classic scene - > [@](#): > > “Just checking something…” > Paul Hogan, _Crocodile Dundee_ ---
**Author:** ![HipGnosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/76d3ee/32.png) [@HipGnosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HipGnosis)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-other-species-exhibit-facial-dimorphism-between-sexes/683408/25 "2014-03-11T20:50:10Z")
It wasn’t an official instruction, but I was STRONGLY AND CLEARLY warned NOT to trust my ability to distinquish male from female faces when I went to the Philippines. The warning made me look quite hard, and I surely could not tell on many of them. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-other-species-exhibit-facial-dimorphism-between-sexes/683408/26 "2014-03-11T21:00:55Z")
> [@Reply](#): > > Hey Wendell, I find this really fascinating. Would you be willing to take a quick (10 ish minutes?) test on facial recognition with hair and facial hair removed? There are children and adults. Can you easily tell who’s male and who’s not? > > Edit: Duh, a link might help: > [http://www.faceblind.org/facetests/upinv/upinv\_intro.php](http://www.faceblind.org/facetests/upinv/upinv_intro.php) It’s interesting. I think of myself as someone with poor facial recognition, but I did well on this test. Missed one on the upright children, none on the adults, and got a 67% on the inverted children. I wonder why I’m so convinced I have very poor facial recognition skills. I always make a point of looking at what someone is wearing to identify them later. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-other-species-exhibit-facial-dimorphism-between-sexes/683408/27 "2014-03-11T21:03:28Z")
Yeah, I took “The Crying Game” over to a friend’s house once; I knew the twist, but neither he nor his son caught on until the reveal. Whereas another friend caught on to “Color of Night” right away, and I hadn’t a clue. I think a lot of our “recognition” is driven by other clues; plus the obvious ones are not the issue - let’s say you could assign, say, 80% of faces accurately to gender. That would still leave a lot of ambiguous ones. What does the OP consider validation of his thesis? Better than random, 99%, or somewhere in between? What bothers me about a lot of fantasy art is that the sword-wielding heroines also seem to have a jawline like Arnold Schwarznegger- not sure what that says about geek fantasies, or the obsessions of comic book artists. there’s the whole discussion too, that women are 'softer" and less square-jawed because the adaptive evolution of females is to mimic youthful characteristics somewhat to appear younger and thus more likely to be early in child-bearing age. Hence also there’s the appeal of less body hair, blonde (a mimicry of fairer hair being an indicator of youth), and smaller size. i would be curious how discernable male and female faces are before puberty. It would seem to me that the difference is significantly less before hormones put on the finishing touches, meaning taht hormone issues could have an effect on this too. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-other-species-exhibit-facial-dimorphism-between-sexes/683408/28 "2014-03-11T22:09:28Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I’m pretty sure you would do much better than you think you could. Research has shown that most adults are very good at such distinctions. > > From this article (link to download pdf): > > [Redirect Notice](http://scholar.google.com/scholar_url?hl=en&q=http://www.researchgate.net/publication/8460447_Sex_differences_in_face_gender_recognition_in_humans/file/9fcfd50f113e282713.pdf&sa=X&scisig=AAGBfm3oH5yfw74DMXEHb6_a2xXCxCkLsw&oi=scholarr)… And we have a winner. This and the feminization pictures cited above (I just saw a YouTube set of time laps over 36 months of a trans-sex patient. SerenDipity). ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-other-species-exhibit-facial-dimorphism-between-sexes/683408/29 "2014-03-12T00:35:48Z")
> [@HipGnosis](#): > > It wasn’t an official instruction, but I was STRONGLY AND CLEARLY warned NOT to trust my ability to distinquish male from female faces when I went to the Philippines. > The warning made me look quite hard, and I surely could not tell on many of them. I can’t say I had much of a problem when I went to the Philippines. But I may not have gone to the same bars as you did.😉 ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-other-species-exhibit-facial-dimorphism-between-sexes/683408/30 "2014-03-12T02:01:10Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > Removing hair and facial accessories (whatever those are) makes it a lot harder. But yes, male cats have a different facial shape than female cats. Really? What’s the difference? ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-other-species-exhibit-facial-dimorphism-between-sexes/683408/31 "2014-03-12T05:45:34Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Yeah, I took “The Crying Game” over to a friend’s house once; I knew the twist, but neither he nor his son caught on until the reveal. Whereas another friend caught on to “Color of Night” right away, and I hadn’t a clue. What are those and how are they relevant? ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-other-species-exhibit-facial-dimorphism-between-sexes/683408/32 "2014-03-12T09:48:36Z")
Movies in which you’re surprised about the sex of a character. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-other-species-exhibit-facial-dimorphism-between-sexes/683408/33 "2014-03-12T15:29:41Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Lots of things that some people think are obvious are also wrong. It wasn’t obvious to me that it’s true. Telling me that there must be something wrong with me because I don’t see it doesn’t help to convince me. It just comes across to me as saying, “We’re going to make fun of you for not agreeing with us, since that’s easier than showing you evidence.” A paper laying out the evidence does help convince me. Thank you for the link. I am willing to believe that you may have [Prosopagnosia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosopagnosia), but I don’t believe for one second that sexual dimorphism in faces is a concept you have never heard of before. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-other-species-exhibit-facial-dimorphism-between-sexes/683408/34 "2014-03-12T15:39:42Z")
\ Among insects, there are species that exhibit huge sexual dimorphism. One wouldn’t think male and female Black Widow spiders are even the same species just looking at their faces. Male Praying Mantises don’t even have faces after mating !!! \ ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-other-species-exhibit-facial-dimorphism-between-sexes/683408/35 "2014-03-12T16:18:05Z")
> [@Reply](#): > > What are those and how are they relevant? How quickly they forget. 1992 - Crying Game has 6 oscar nominations, won one, hit song from the movie, incredible media buzz. Which is why it amazed me that my friend did not know what it was about. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-other-species-exhibit-facial-dimorphism-between-sexes/683408/36 "2014-03-12T17:39:06Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I’m pretty sure you would do much better than you think you could. Research has shown that most adults are very good at such distinctions. > > From this article (link to download pdf): > > [Redirect Notice](http://scholar.google.com/scholar_url?hl=en&q=http://www.researchgate.net/publication/8460447_Sex_differences_in_face_gender_recognition_in_humans/file/9fcfd50f113e282713.pdf&sa=X&scisig=AAGBfm3oH5yfw74DMXEHb6_a2xXCxCkLsw&oi=scholarr) It says they eliminated hairstyles and makeup, but did they eliminate stubble and eyebrow tweezing? Those are two of the biggest signs, I would think. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-other-species-exhibit-facial-dimorphism-between-sexes/683408/37 "2014-03-12T18:59:05Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Really? What’s the difference? [what the hell, I thought I already answered this. Must have hit preview instead of submit.] Males have a bigger jaw, kind of more rectangular. Their facial structure is longer, female structure is rounder. Male cats look like panthers, females look like kittycats. Eh, they all look like kittycats. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-other-species-exhibit-facial-dimorphism-between-sexes/683408/38 "2014-03-12T19:31:35Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > It says they eliminated hairstyles and makeup, but did they eliminate stubble and eyebrow tweezing? Those are two of the biggest signs, I would think. I doubt very much those are the “biggest signs.” The article says the male faces were clean shaven. Male and female eyebrows tend to be different even without tweezing. The photos were also pixelated to various degrees, which would also tend to minimize the importance of such minor alterations. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-other-species-exhibit-facial-dimorphism-between-sexes/683408/39 "2014-03-12T20:07:38Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The article says the male faces were clean shaven. Even with most clean shaven men, you can tell the presence of a tiny bit of stubble. > [@](#): > > The photos were also pixelated to various degrees, which would also tend to minimize the importance of such minor alterations. I think you might be confusing two sources here. The study that you cited discussed pixelating the pictures to various degrees. However the quote that you cited about people being able to determine the genders without cues from hairstyles or makeup was not the conclusion of the cited study which used pixelated pictures. It was cited in that article from another study, and it’s nowhere stated that that other source study used pixelatd pictures. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-other-species-exhibit-facial-dimorphism-between-sexes/683408/40 "2014-03-12T20:22:25Z")
Why would you want to compare pics of clean shaven men? Our species obviously evolved with men exhibiting more facial hair than women. It’s an artificial trait to shave facial hair, and would seem to violate the question in the OP. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-other-species-exhibit-facial-dimorphism-between-sexes/683408.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-other-species-exhibit-facial-dimorphism-between-sexes/683408.md?page=3)