# Do pens have caps or lids? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 21, 2013, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-pens-have-caps-or-lids/671821 "2013-10-21T14:53:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-pens-have-caps-or-lids/671821/21 "2013-10-21T16:19:45Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > But but… caps go on top too? To cap it all off and all that. Well, damn, there goes that theory. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-pens-have-caps-or-lids/671821/22 "2013-10-21T16:23:04Z")
> [@For You](#): > > “Biro” is a brand name, like in US, we would use “Davenport” to mean just any sofa (not so much these days). Or “Kleenex”, there is no substitute for that. The most obvious example like that (aside from biro) – we use ‘hoover’, as both a noun and a verb, in place of vacuum. Do you do that too? Kleenex is just a tissue, no? I’d just say ‘tissue’. > [@For You](#): > > But generally, we just say “pen”. Not very precise though. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-pens-have-caps-or-lids/671821/23 "2013-10-21T16:46:25Z")
I have not found writing utensils to be an area where specificity is greatly in demand. Generally, if I say I need a pen, a bic, uni-ball or biro will all do the trick. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-pens-have-caps-or-lids/671821/24 "2013-10-21T16:49:16Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > Not very precise though. If we need to be more precise, we call them [ballpoint pen](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballpoint_pen)s. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-pens-have-caps-or-lids/671821/25 "2013-10-21T16:50:49Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > Not very precise though. In US, very few of us ever use fountain pens. We do sometimes use felt-tip pens or these things that look kind of like needles, but the upshot is a pen puts ink on paper, not much greater detail is needed. We rarely even use carbon-paper-type things anymore, so the type of pen is usually not an issue. Even some non-ball-point pens have ink that survives getting wet, all we really care about is that the lines get on the paper. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-pens-have-caps-or-lids/671821/26 "2013-10-21T18:42:33Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Wait a minute—what to you mean by the “top” of a pen? The cap goes over the **tip** of the pen—the part you write with—which is at the **bottom** while the pen is in use. No, the part of the pen you write with is the top of the pen. Look at the writing on a pen - if there’s any writing that’s oriented perpendicular to the shaft of the pen, it will almost always be oriented so that the top of the text it towards the tip of the pen.\* Saying that the tip of the pen is at the bottom is like arguing that the cork is in the bottom of a wine bottle, because that’s the way you hold it when you pour it into a glass. \*Cite: the pens I can reach without getting up from my computer. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-pens-have-caps-or-lids/671821/27 "2013-10-21T18:44:20Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > The most obvious example like that (aside from biro) – we use ‘hoover’, as both a noun and a verb, in place of vacuum. Do you do that too? It’s not as common any more as a noun - “vacuum” tends to be the generic word for it. The verb form is still used, though. As always, regional variations may apply. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-pens-have-caps-or-lids/671821/28 "2013-10-21T18:50:24Z")
When my wife was recovering from encephalitis a few years ago, one of the neuro tests they would do with her would be to hold up an every day object like a pen and point to different parts asking her to name them. If she had said “lid” when they were pointing at the cap, they would have never let her leave. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-pens-have-caps-or-lids/671821/29 "2013-10-21T18:53:24Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > If we need to be more precise, we call them [ballpoint pen](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballpoint_pen)s. Zaphod Beeblebrox would like a word with you. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-pens-have-caps-or-lids/671821/30 "2013-10-21T18:53:55Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > No, the part of the pen you write with is the top of the pen. Look at the writing on a pen - if there’s any writing that’s oriented perpendicular to the shaft of the pen, it will almost always be oriented so that the top of the text it towards the tip of the pen. I’m having trouble finding any pens with writing perpendicular to the shaft of the pen. Got a link to a picture? For what it’s worth, in a google image search of “ballpoint pen,” not one of the many images that came up showed what you’re calling the “top” higher than the rest of the pen. Unless the pen was perfectly horizontal, they were all point-downward. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-pens-have-caps-or-lids/671821/31 "2013-10-21T18:56:23Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I’m having trouble finding any pens with writing perpendicular to the shaft of the pen. Got a link to a picture? The lid of my Pentel RSVP BK90 fine has the writing oriented perpendicularly. [can just barely see it here.](http://s7d5.scene7.com/is/image/Staples/s0071590_sc7?$splssku$) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-pens-have-caps-or-lids/671821/32 "2013-10-21T19:34:30Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I’m having trouble finding any pens with writing perpendicular to the shaft of the pen. Got a link to a picture? [Uni-Ball Vision Elite.](http://officesupplygeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Uniball-Vision-Elite-and-BLX-Blue-Black-Comparison.jpg) In fairness, the [Uni-Ball Signo](http://s1156.photobucket.com/user/nofars/media/P1050196.jpg.html) (which was sitting on my sideboard, and as such, outside the parameters of my original research) takes the opposite tack. > [@](#): > > For what it’s worth, in a google image search of “ballpoint pen,” not one of the many images that came up showed what you’re calling the “top” higher than the rest of the pen. Unless the pen was perfectly horizontal, they were all point-downward. This is kind of interesting. Do a search for “ball point pen,” and most of the images are, indeed, tip-downward. Do a search for “ball point pen cap,” however, and most of the images are tip upward. Also, consider the pocket hook on most pens. If the pen has a cap, the hook is on the cap, meaning you store it point up. If the pen has a retractable point and no cap, the hook is on the opposite end of the point, meaning you store it point down. On the basis of these findings, I’m prepared to provisionally state that the tip is the top of a pen with a cap, and the bottom of a pen with no cap. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-pens-have-caps-or-lids/671821/33 "2013-10-21T20:11:36Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-pens-have-caps-or-lids/671821/34 "2013-10-21T23:37:03Z")
Both… ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-pens-have-caps-or-lids/671821/35 "2013-10-22T00:03:50Z")
I respectfully submit that the “tip” is the part of the pen that makes contact with the writing surface to make a mark. I further submit that I always cringe when I hear someone say “Where my ink pen at?”. And not just because they pronounce “pen” as if it’s spelled “pin”. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-pens-have-caps-or-lids/671821/36 "2013-10-22T00:07:42Z")
It’s a cap. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-pens-have-caps-or-lids/671821/37 "2013-10-22T00:10:01Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > I respectfully submit that the “tip” is the part of the pen that makes contact with the writing surface to make a mark. Unless it’s a fountain pen, in which case it’s the nib that makes contact with the writing surface to make a mark. But y’all knew that already, I’m sure. ---
**Author:** ![Accidental\_Martyr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ce7236/32.png) [@Accidental\_Martyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Accidental_Martyr)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-pens-have-caps-or-lids/671821/38 "2013-10-22T05:07:30Z")
> [@For You](#): > > “Biro” is a brand name, like in US, we would use “Davenport” to mean just any sofa (not so much these days). Or “Kleenex”, there is no substitute for that. But generally, we just say “pen”. Make sure you put a Band-Aid on that cut after you clean it with a Kleenex. ---
**Author:** ![Monkey\_Chews](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@Monkey\_Chews](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monkey_Chews)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-pens-have-caps-or-lids/671821/39 "2013-10-22T07:03:46Z")
Aussie here - I’d call it a lid. I’m pretty sure that’s the standard term around here. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-pens-have-caps-or-lids/671821/40 "2013-10-22T07:17:51Z")
> [@sahirrnee](#): > > But are they still $15? > > Damn I’m old ☹ \*15 bucks, Little Man. Put that money in my hand. If that money doesn’t show, Then you’ll owe-e-owe-e-owe. \* I’ve always heard it called a cap, never a lid. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-pens-have-caps-or-lids/671821.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-pens-have-caps-or-lids/671821.md?page=3)