# Do People Care About Hearing Lyrics Anymore? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 21, 2016, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-care-about-hearing-lyrics-anymore/775315 "2016-12-21T18:44:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Deser2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dfb087/32.png) [@Deser2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deser2)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-care-about-hearing-lyrics-anymore/775315/41 "2016-12-22T18:02:39Z")
> [@WOOKINPANUB](#): > > This is so totally opposite of my view that I can hardly comprehend it. Not to say it’s _wrong_ by any means, just really alien to me. > > This also confuses me. It would seem “vocabulary” is being used to mean "the most words crammed into a song. Just because there’s more of 'em doesn’t mean they carry any more weight. For me personally, the cadence of the admittedly small sample of rap I’ve heard is one of the main reasons I don’t care for it. To my ears it sounds like someone rambling really fast over a beat that doesn’t match, I am going to say that part of the issue is that it seems the rap/hip-hop to which you’ve been exposed falls more in the realm of pop than rap/hip-hop. It commercially produced and aimed to appeal to the masses. So most of the time you’re not getting deep lyrics or meaningful songs. Like other upthread have stated - pop is traditionally more in the realm of “something you can dance to”. If you want to look at some Hip-Hop that has more of a message and where the lyrics actually matter I’d recommend the following groups: -Atmosphere (my favorite group for years. the group refers to themselves as “Dad Rap”) -Brother Ali (member of the same record label as the above. He’s albino and was raised in the black community. the majority of his songs carry a heavy message influenced by how he was raised and what he went through in his life) -Talib Kweli (excellent Brooklyn rapper with a focus on activism) -A Tribe Called Quest (depending on the album you’re listening to they range all the way from more poppy sounding (although never even getting close to “pop”) to extremely message-centric (their latest album is probably their most politicized) -Blackalicious/Gift of Gab (group/solo artist - kind of hard to describe. to people familiar with the genre they/he would probably be labeled “conscious rap”) Let me know if you still feel the same after listening to those groups. If not and you’d like some more recommendations, I’d be happy to provide them. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-care-about-hearing-lyrics-anymore/775315/42 "2016-12-22T18:41:41Z")
> [@Richard\_John\_Marcej](#): > > No, you’re wrong. There’s an era of popular music that falls within the late 60’s thru mid 70’s that many call the “Singer-Songwriter” era. Many extremely talented artists who wrote songs that relied as much on the lyrics of their songs as well as the music. I think your memory of the popular music of the late 60s and 70s is not quite what the actual popular music of that era was. Check some of Smapti’s #1 polls. The actual hits of that era are things like “Sugar, Sugar,” “In the Year 2525,” “My Sweet Lord,” “A Horse With No Name,” “Bad Bad Leroy Brown.” (not the most amazing lyrics). Most of the things that I think you’re remembering as singer-songwriter songs weren’t so high on the charts. To the OP, people care as much as they ever did. And there are still good lyrics (or at least good lines) out there, **not what you’d expect** already mentioned that one from “Love Yourself” (I don’t like the song, but that’s a good line). “Closer” by the Chainsmokers has several nice turns of phrase. The song list linked to in the OP is a strange collection. I’m also not sure how the OP listened to “Super Bass” and “Thrift Shop” & thinks that one just blended into the other and they sound alike. ---
**Author:** ![Fleetwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fleetwood/32/271_2.png) [@Fleetwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fleetwood)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-care-about-hearing-lyrics-anymore/775315/43 "2016-12-22T20:39:27Z")
> [@naita](#): > > Yeah, opera sucks. Or am I the only one unable to make out the words there? Huh. It’s as if they are singing in a foreign language. ---
**Author:** ![Wallaby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/dc4da7/32.png) [@Wallaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallaby)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-care-about-hearing-lyrics-anymore/775315/44 "2016-12-22T22:24:42Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > Anymore? I never did. > > In reality, more often than not, learning the words usually ruins a song for me. Because they are usually stupid. Very few lyrics enhance the song for me. The voice is just another instrument. I don’t care about the dumb stories they are trying to tell me. Gotta say - I agree. I love singing along to my old favorites - not because the words are meaningful or reach out to me in any way - but because I can then join in and enjoy the musical experience with the only instrument I can play semi-adequately - my own voice (admittedly, opinions are divided about my singing ability in the same way they are divided about Cacofonix:p). Scat singing is great. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-care-about-hearing-lyrics-anymore/775315/45 "2016-12-22T22:41:35Z")
> [@Wallaby](#): > > Gotta say - I agree. I love singing along to my old favorites - not because the words are meaningful or reach out to me in any way - but because I can then join in and enjoy the musical experience with the only instrument I can play semi-adequately - my own voice (admittedly, opinions are divided about my singing ability in the same way they are divided about Cacofonix:p). Scat singing is great. For me it works both ways: I think “A wop bop a loo bop, a lop bam boom” it’s as good a line as “The ghost of electricity howls in the bones of her face”. There’s a time for dancing and going crazy about a song that’s pure nonsense, but funny or agitating, and a time for contemplating about deeper meanings in songs, though there are also tons of dance songs with great lyrics. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-care-about-hearing-lyrics-anymore/775315/46 "2016-12-22T22:48:14Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > That’s like saying that listening to the dialogue ruins a movie. > Okay, not really. But there are plenty of us who care about the lyrics to the songs we listen to; and if they’re stupid or turn us off in some way, that tends to make it Not A Good Song. Yes, but it can still be good music. That is exactly my point. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-care-about-hearing-lyrics-anymore/775315/47 "2016-12-22T22:56:46Z")
I’m one of those people who love lyrics and consider lyrics to be “my” poetry. There is a ton of music that is absolute shit for lyrics from every decade. I totally love hip hop because I think the lyrics are great and clever and a lot of it isn’t the boring boy-loves-girl nonsense. Of course, not all hip hop. There’s a lot of great popular hip hop but a lot more of it on the edges. Deser2 has a great list and I’ll say add Chance the Rapper and Childish Gambino too. For popular stuff there’s Outkast, Ludacris and Eminem. I find with rock and rap that you have to listen a few times to really get the lyrics. If you are turned off by the music right away you probably aren’t going to get deep enough into it to hear the real words. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-care-about-hearing-lyrics-anymore/775315/48 "2016-12-22T23:27:01Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Singing, in other words. No. Singing has a melody. Rap: most does not. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-care-about-hearing-lyrics-anymore/775315/49 "2016-12-23T00:56:29Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > Anymore? I never did. > > In reality, more often than not, learning the words usually ruins a song for me. …says the person who just posted in the “[Speak to me in succinct song lyrics](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=726911)” thread. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-care-about-hearing-lyrics-anymore/775315/50 "2016-12-23T01:07:46Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > …says the person who just posted in the “[Speak to me in succinct song lyrics](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=726911)” thread. 🙂 The words themselves are stupid. But the way he sings/yells them with the music is great! ETA: Plus I thought it would be a good counter balance to “onward christian soldiers” that Prof. posted above me. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-care-about-hearing-lyrics-anymore/775315/51 "2016-12-23T01:26:13Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Real, adult music for adults is written by people who win major awards for the lyrics themselves. This must be a usage of the word “major” that I’m unaware of. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-care-about-hearing-lyrics-anymore/775315/52 "2016-12-23T01:40:22Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > “My momma don’t like you and she likes everyone” says volumes to me. > > I have no problem with the lyrics of todays music. Maybe I just speak the language. I assume you’re taking the piss but that line might be the most delightful thing I encountered in 2016 pop music. [Quote=edwards\_beard] Hey…isn’t your screen name a lyric??? encountered in 2016 pop music 😛 [/QUOTE] Yes, yes it is, but I’m fee times a mady so I’ll withhold a response at this time. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-care-about-hearing-lyrics-anymore/775315/53 "2016-12-23T09:06:32Z")
> [@Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](#): > > But what I think is being described here is people deliberately choosing to mumble and/or use a limited vocabulary or even prelinguistic onomatopoeia. There’s no valid justification for that: it’s either laziness or affectation and both are grating. They may be grating to you. But your tastes are not the objective truth of performing arts. ---
**Author:** ![Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/les_espaces_du_sommeil/32/308_2.png) [@Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Les_Espaces_Du_Sommeil)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-care-about-hearing-lyrics-anymore/775315/54 "2016-12-23T09:36:10Z")
Absolutely, my tastes are subjective. However, I doubt many people consider laziness and affectation as fundamental components of art. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-care-about-hearing-lyrics-anymore/775315/55 "2016-12-23T13:13:37Z")
> [@Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](#): > > Absolutely, my tastes are subjective. > > However, I doubt many people consider laziness and affectation as fundamental components of art. That it can only be laziness and affectation, and not an artistic choice/trends, is your judgement, based on your subjective tastes. ---
**Author:** ![Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/les_espaces_du_sommeil/32/308_2.png) [@Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Les_Espaces_Du_Sommeil)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-care-about-hearing-lyrics-anymore/775315/56 "2016-12-23T13:59:18Z")
I suppose so, but then, we’re veering uncomfortably close to artistic relativism (“everything is great, don’t you dare saying that it sucks”), which isn’t a position that I have much respect for. Suffice it to say that while I do indeed think that a lot about art is subjective, there is probably a number of parameters that can be objectively measured (in tune or not, out of rhythm or not, basic or complex harmonies for example). And from there, we can perhaps have the audacity (gasp !) to rank what artists toss at us, especially if we’re expected to give them money for their efforts. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2016, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-care-about-hearing-lyrics-anymore/775315/57 "2016-12-24T09:46:02Z")
Well, using objective parameters, hip hop and heavy metal use the largest vocabularies of all popular genres, according to the analysis posted earlier. An analysis of musical complexity might tend to favour heavy metal, but I’m not sure that has been carried out yet. But having a complex tune and a large semantic field does not make the lyrics easy to understand on a first hearing. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2016, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-care-about-hearing-lyrics-anymore/775315/58 "2016-12-24T22:44:23Z")
The only reason I’ve ever found lyrics hard to understand is just the mixing. They don’t bring out the vocals in front as much as they did back before the 70s. It’s not mumbling or weird vocabulary that’s the problem–although there are some mumble rappers–but they kinda suck. Good rappers have great elecution. It’s just that the music is mixed as loud or louder than the vocals. Parody songs seem to be the ones that do it right. You can always understand Weird Al’s lyrics. And Apologetix (an older Christian parody band), even though they’re trying to sound like the real guys. This is a part of why I like a capella groups. And just more simple acoustic stuff where there’s not this wall of sound behind people. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-care-about-hearing-lyrics-anymore/775315/59 "2016-12-27T14:45:05Z")
> [@Deser2](#): > > I am going to say that part of the issue is that it seems the rap/hip-hop to which you’ve been exposed falls more in the realm of pop than rap/hip-hop. It commercially produced and aimed to appeal to the masses. So most of the time you’re not getting deep lyrics or meaningful songs. Like other upthread have stated - pop is traditionally more in the realm of “something you can dance to”. > > If you want to look at some Hip-Hop that has more of a message and where the lyrics actually matter I’d recommend the following groups: > > -Atmosphere (my favorite group for years. the group refers to themselves as “Dad Rap”) > -Brother Ali (member of the same record label as the above. He’s albino and was raised in the black community. the majority of his songs carry a heavy message influenced by how he was raised and what he went through in his life) > -Talib Kweli (excellent Brooklyn rapper with a focus on activism) > -A Tribe Called Quest (depending on the album you’re listening to they range all the way from more poppy sounding (although never even getting close to “pop”) to extremely message-centric (their latest album is probably their most politicized) > -Blackalicious/Gift of Gab (group/solo artist - kind of hard to describe. to people familiar with the genre they/he would probably be labeled “conscious rap”) > > Let me know if you still feel the same after listening to those groups. If not and you’d like some more recommendations, I’d be happy to provide them. Agreed. Hip hop, the most popular genre today, is where lyrics matter most, but just like anything there is a lot of mediocre hip hop and pop has always been inconsequential. Adding more recent artists to your list Kendrick Lamar is a lyrical genius. The way he plays with rhythm and multi layered rhymes is jaw dropping. It’s musically interesting too and he’s a storyteller first and foremost. Check him out. Also Run the Jewels. Killer Mike and El-P have been in the rap game for decades and just released a new album that, it is safe to say, is the the most anticipated release of the last year. And it’s really good. Their lyrics are more over the top, but also well written and… Just excellent. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-care-about-hearing-lyrics-anymore/775315/60 "2016-12-27T19:10:41Z")
**Two Many Cats** , I presume you come from the generation that listened to “Louie Louie”? And you think modern songs have poor lyrics?? Did you EVER listen to a song from “America” and actually understand it?? Lyrics have always been all over the place. I listen to some lyrics from golden oldies dating to the time of the turn of the previous century, and I shake my head in wonder. Modern music has many issues (mostly dealing with the incredible simplicity of it). Lyrics, not so much. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-care-about-hearing-lyrics-anymore/775315.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-care-about-hearing-lyrics-anymore/775315.md?page=4)