# Do people get shunned at work like this? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 20, 2012, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-get-shunned-at-work-like-this/613414 "2012-02-20T13:13:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-get-shunned-at-work-like-this/613414/61 "2012-02-20T22:18:17Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > But I think it can fairly be argued that kayaker is at least partially responsible for the situation, due to his indifference. It would not have killed him financially to let her have unemployment insurance. Meh. Indifference over something that is none of my fucking business to begin with? I train a new employee and before I’ve even recovered my investment she quits without notice. Because nobody likes her? A group of women who all get along just fine? And then uses me as a personal reference and attempts to collect unemployment? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-get-shunned-at-work-like-this/613414/62 "2012-02-20T22:21:14Z")
> [@KneeSid](#): > > As long as I get my paycheck and my coworkers are civil to me, everything else is gravy I guess it all boils down to what “civil” means in this context. Most employees wouldn’t quit over minor slights. Major hostility, even if mostly _passive_ hostility, can become quite intolerable. ---
**Author:** ![raspberry\_hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@raspberry\_hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raspberry_hunter)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-get-shunned-at-work-like-this/613414/63 "2012-02-20T22:25:07Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > But it does not stop there. He gets a call for a reference for the woman. When he learns it’s a personal reference and not “did she work there” he laughs, essentially stabbing her in the back, killing that job opportunity for her. So I may be reading too much into this, but **kayaker** also said that when he laughed, the person who called him also laughed. My reading of that was that the caller had figured out some of this for him(her?)self before even calling **kayaker**. (Frankly, otherwise, were I calling a personal reference, I would not take a laugh as necessarily meaning “I am stabbing this person in the back!” There are many reasons to laugh, including “Oh, she thought we were good friends! Well, she’s a nice kid,” or “Oh, I thought it would be a work reference!”) And anyway, what do you expect kayaker to do? Lie? I thought references were supposed to tell the truth. Now if kayaker had assured the woman that he’d give her a glowing reference regarding her social skills, then yeah, that wouldn’t be nice at all. But that’s not what happened. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-get-shunned-at-work-like-this/613414/64 "2012-02-20T23:32:47Z")
You do NOT list someone as a personal reference without asking them first. If I call someone you’ve listed and they’re surprised by my request, your resume gets shit-canned, and rightly so. ---
**Author:** ![emcee2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emcee2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emcee2k)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-get-shunned-at-work-like-this/613414/65 "2012-02-20T23:50:51Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > I own a small business. My employees all get along and socialize outside of work. A few years back I hired someone who everyone else just did not like. But everyone did their jobs and covered for her when things got busy, etc. > > One day she came to me and complained that none of the other employees were nice to her. I told her that I wasn’t running a cruise line, and I was not the social director. As long as everyone did their jobs well I had no problem with the situation. > > A few weeks later, she quit. She then filed for unemployment and I filed my denial request and won. A few weeks later I got a call regarding a reference. I told the caller the dates she worked for me. He explained no, this was a personal reference. I laughed. He laughed. What exactly did she do wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-get-shunned-at-work-like-this/613414/66 "2012-02-20T23:51:47Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Meh. Indifference over something that is none of my fucking business to begin with? I train a new employee and before I’ve even recovered my investment she quits without notice. Because nobody likes her? A group of women who all get along just fine? And then uses me as a personal reference and attempts to collect unemployment? > > :rolleyes: Well, I see it as a matter of different situations. She’s struggling to survive because she has no job. You’re still employed, have your own company, etc. She is much more vulnerable, at greater risk than you. It would have cost you very little to have done things differently, but might have made a great deal of difference to her. So, yah … still flunking. And I agree … she should not have used you as a reference without making enquiries. Very foolish indeed. But you still seem, well, how to put this … overly indifferent. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-get-shunned-at-work-like-this/613414/67 "2012-02-20T23:53:08Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > You do NOT list someone as a personal reference without asking them first. If I call someone you’ve listed and they’re surprised by my request, your resume gets shit-canned, and rightly so. It was foolish, but not necessarily evil, of her. I said so in my post. Would you like to stab her or what? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-get-shunned-at-work-like-this/613414/68 "2012-02-21T00:05:56Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Meh. Indifference over something that is none of my fucking business to begin with? I train a new employee and before I’ve even recovered my investment she quits without notice. Because nobody likes her? A group of women who all get along just fine? And then uses me as a personal reference and attempts to collect unemployment? > > :rolleyes: You should have hired her back and fired the rest of the company… wouldn’t have done you any good, of course, but at least we would get the pleasure of watching **EC’s** head explode. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-get-shunned-at-work-like-this/613414/69 "2012-02-21T00:44:25Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > But you still seem, well, how to put this … overly indifferent. No argument from me. ---
**Author:** ![raspberry\_hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@raspberry\_hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raspberry_hunter)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-get-shunned-at-work-like-this/613414/70 "2012-02-21T00:45:00Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > You do NOT list someone as a personal reference without asking them first. If I call someone you’ve listed and they’re surprised by my request, your resume gets shit-canned, and rightly so. > [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > It was foolish, but not necessarily evil, of her. I said so in my post. Would you like to stab her or what? I dunno, at my company we have higher standards than “let’s hire anyone who isn’t overtly evil.” And at Ruken’s too, apparently. Don’t know how that translates to stabbing her. ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-get-shunned-at-work-like-this/613414/71 "2012-02-21T00:49:45Z")
I shun all of my coworkers. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-get-shunned-at-work-like-this/613414/72 "2012-02-21T00:58:26Z")
To get off the **Evil Captor** hijack because it’s really boring, > [@Incubus](#): > > \ > She told us how all her coworkers were in this little clique; they all knew each other from high school. They were all single, lived in the city, went out and partied, and generally “acted like kids” as she put it. And they never, in nine months, ate lunch with her; never invited her to join them nor accepted any of her invitations. Nor did they seem to want to hang out with her outside of work. She felt like because she was married and at a different point in her life she wasnt able to fit in. After nine months, she got fed up and quit. \ My wife speculated that she was probably annoying the hell out her coworkers to the point they couldnt stand her. Being shunned at work isn’t any fun and I think most of us would eventually quit a job where we were being shunned, but I think most of us would quit inviting people who obviously aren’t interested, too. I suspect there was fault on both sides in this case. Because your friend was only 25, I also suspect that she handled it differently than I would at 45 - like **Athena** , I would just take indifference from my co-workers as a blessing - yay, no gossiping and boring conversations with people I don’t care about! > [@stolatt](#): > > \ > I’m too old to play clique-y games, so I was friendly with everyone. Even the queen bees, because it infuriated them. You could see the wheels turning in their heads, haven’t I been mean enough? Why doesn’t she get it? That part was fun. It sounds like you handle people with arrested development just right. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jabiru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbce88/32.png) [@jabiru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jabiru)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-get-shunned-at-work-like-this/613414/73 "2012-02-21T01:08:59Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > A Jewish guy in the lab said she was the epitome of JAPness, my first encounter with that word. ?? The rest of your post makes complete sense but I have no idea what Japness is. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-get-shunned-at-work-like-this/613414/74 "2012-02-21T01:09:50Z")
Why was she inviting people she didn’t like to join her for weekend activities? Isn’t that something you do when a friendship is already established? She could have invited me to see Prince and Annie Lennox together on stage, singing David Bowie songs and dancing like Michael Jackson, and I would have turned her down. Especially if we hadn’t even eaten lunch together. I imagine those invitations marked her as weird right off the bat. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-get-shunned-at-work-like-this/613414/75 "2012-02-21T01:11:31Z")
> [@jabiru](#): > > ?? The rest of your post makes complete sense but I have no idea what Japness is. JAP = Jewish American Princess. One of those phrases I trust only Jewish people to use correctly. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-get-shunned-at-work-like-this/613414/76 "2012-02-21T01:33:41Z")
Been plenty of places where cliquism is rampant. But then, this is Minnesota, Land of 10,000 Cliques. Not uncommon for one person to get into a place and then get all their friends/drinking buddies jobs at the same place so they can all hang out together during and after work. And then it’s just a matter of (petty) course that people not in the clique tend to get shunned, ignored, sabotaged, whatever. Some people just never grow past junior high school. As a matter of personal policy, I do not socialize with my co-workers any more than I have to. I see them 8-9 hours a day, why would I want to hang out with them on my down time and listen to more shit about the workplace? So for the most part, I don’t give a shit if they ignore or shun me, it says nothing about me and everything about them. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-get-shunned-at-work-like-this/613414/77 "2012-02-21T01:41:47Z")
> [@raspberry\_hunter](#): > > So I may be reading too much into this, but **kayaker** also said that when he laughed, the person who called him also laughed. My reading of that was that the caller had figured out some of this for him(her?)self before even calling **kayaker**. They are Management. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-get-shunned-at-work-like-this/613414/78 "2012-02-21T03:03:58Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > You do NOT list someone as a personal reference without asking them first. If I call someone you’ve listed and they’re surprised by my request, your resume gets shit-canned, and rightly so. I agree that you do not list someone as a reference without asking them. But not everyone is aware of the social convention of requesting first. I’d certainly tell if someone listed me as a reference and I had not been asked, but I wouldn’t laugh at their ignorance to a stranger. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-get-shunned-at-work-like-this/613414/79 "2012-02-21T03:48:45Z")
I worked in a Mean Girls environment right out of high school and lasted there for almost ten years. Although those women in that small office were equally awful, I was pretty cocky and it would’ve been intrusive to insert myself into dynamics that had been going on forever. So, I stayed in a pretty hostile situation until I could happily move on. Since then, I’ve matured and I’ve never had the same problems again. I figure I can put on a happy face while I’m there and I don’t have to be any more overly involved than is like. To me, it sounds like she was pretty condescending if she saw that much of a divide between herself and her co-workers, when in reality it was only a couple of years. Yes, if you’re in different places in your lives (like single versus married), the gap will seem wider, but it’s up to all interested parties if they want to bridge it. Due to her attitude, I think they passed and she wasn’t as adult as she’d like to portray. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-get-shunned-at-work-like-this/613414/80 "2012-02-21T04:05:11Z")
I wouldn’t join an employee at a ren fair, I guess I’m a shunner. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-get-shunned-at-work-like-this/613414.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-get-shunned-at-work-like-this/613414.md?page=5)