# Do people have too much freedom? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 1, 2003, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-have-too-much-freedom/178943 "2003-06-01T14:55:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-have-too-much-freedom/178943/21 "2003-06-02T14:08:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Marley23 \* > \*\*I’m going to agree with the people who say we have too little freedom. And the people who says we do have too much are some of the scariest sonsabitches out there, like Bush and Ashcroft and Fleischer. Blecch. \*\* Can you provide a cite where Bush has said we have too much freedom? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-have-too-much-freedom/178943/22 "2003-06-02T15:33:50Z")
And what do you suppose we do about these things? ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-have-too-much-freedom/178943/23 "2003-06-02T15:53:44Z")
Too much freedom for _what_?? Restrictions on freedom exist in some sense under all circumstances, and so does freedom. I am not free to flap my arms and fly to the sun because of natural restrictions on what I am able to do. _Usually_ these kinds of restrictions are not what we have in mind when we speak of freedom, although this is not always the case. (freedom from disease, freedom from mortality, freedom from hunger = all notions of surmounting what are or originally were natural limitations and consequences of us being us in our natural environment). I am not free to methodically kill, barbecue, and eat other randomly chosen members of my species because when I start to behave in that fashion my intended prey will behave in fairly predictable ways to thwart me, even in the complete absence of any organized structure of law or rule or law enforcement mechanism. My right to swing my fist ends where your chin begins not merely because of social contract, but also because you have your own fist. _Usually_ these kinds of restrictions are also not what we speak of when we speak of having or lacking freedom, since no conceivable social or political revolution can increase everyone’s freedom to the point that we would all be free of this restriction. I am not free to waste away in drunken laziness, masturbation, squalor, willful ignorance, and avaricious self-centeredness without consequences to my health, my reputation, and the likelihood of my neighbors being friendly and helpful and cooperative when I want assistance and favors. This is true in the absence of social systems of law and authority and currency and market and the concept of ownership. Interestingly enough, it is not necessarily quite so true once you add those things in, as such system can make these freedoms possible, such as they are. I _am_ free to do anything other than as mentioned above unless I am physically restrained, even in the presence of social systems of absolute centralization of authority. My exercise of such freedom may result in my incarceration or my dismemberment and death on very short order, depending on the content of the rules and the draconian nature of enforcement. In _most_ cases, when we speak of freedom, we don’t include this kind of freedom, because the deliberate imposition of punishment (or the withdrawal of reward, where resources are reallocated as reward systems) is understood to be effectively coercive whenever we are able to anticipate outcomes. It is against such systems that we usually rebel when we do rebel, and it is the freedom that persists in spite of the situation that makes rebellion a possibility. If the OP is recommending an increase in the number of formalized restrictions on our freedom, and/or an increase in the speed and efficiency of the enforcement of such restrictions, I hereby utilize my existing freedoms to say unto the OP: “Go to hell”. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-have-too-much-freedom/178943/24 "2003-06-02T15:58:29Z")
\>\> It’s like, people can do whatever the fuck they want and it’s hard to stop them. Can you show any instance in history where authoritarian governments have made things better? I don’t think so. You see, if God was in charge maybe things would be better but since you have to put a person in charge how can you be sure he will not abuse the power given him? Look at Cuba and North Korea. Are they places you’d like to live? ---
**Author:** ![zwaldd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a9adbd/32.png) [@zwaldd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zwaldd)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-have-too-much-freedom/178943/25 "2003-06-02T16:42:19Z")
I think we have the right amount of freedom in the US. Freedom to elect officials that have the power to make, change, and veto laws. That money tilts the tables is not a concept that can be removed in any constructive way, IMO, so I don’t bemoan its influence. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-have-too-much-freedom/178943/26 "2003-06-02T16:52:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Can you provide a cite where Bush has said we have too much freedom? I was thinking of his famous quote “There ought to be limits to freedom,” from a press conference in Austin on May 21, 1999. He was upset about the parody site [www.gwbush.com](http://www.gwbush.com) and wanted it shut down. I admit he doesn’t say we specifically have too much freedom, but I think the implication is clear. And I’d argue his policies back up that view. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-have-too-much-freedom/178943/27 "2003-06-02T17:15:53Z")
Marley: I’ll give you credit for having a cite. Do you know of any US leader who has ever said or implied that there should be NO limits to freedom? Pubs and Dems just want to limit different kinds of freedoms. Neither has a monopoly on that. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-have-too-much-freedom/178943/28 "2003-06-02T17:15:53Z")
Okay, time for the OP… I was dreading trying this… > [@](#): > > People have too much freedom. > See they started smoking pot, now at first I thought, “what if we get caught?”. > So I looked around… no cops, no sirens, no neighbors that would even care. So then you’re fine, and you probably won’t get caught unless you’re doing something loud and obnoxious. What’s the problem? The lack of cops? Does that mean you’d rather have police patrolling every street all the time? Perhaps you want surveillance cameras installed throughout your house? Or are you just saying your neighbors should be more actively involved in spying on you ::cough cough TIPS:: FOR the police, when you’re doing something in your own home that isn’t harming them? > [@](#): > > I mean, download a porn video and you can see the dude is banging her at his house, some fancy house up in the hollywood hills f eks. This is wrong why? It’s legal to have sex, it’s legal to videotape it. There’s nothing illegal about putting it on the 'net provided you do it properly. It’s even legal to do in Hollywood Hills. (I’d ask why that matters, but I figure you were drunk when you wrote this and I shouldn’t even be answering it in the first place.) If it’s what you want to do - and again, I see no demonstrable harm being done to you or anyone else - what’s wrong with it? Why should it be banned? Why should the government/police be allowed to intrude upon your life like that? If you only answer one of these questions, please make it the first one. I just don’t see why people shouldn’t be allowed to watch porn. (I find it gross myself, but hey.) > [@](#): > > They might be sniffing cocaine or shooting heroine for chr. sake. Oh dear lord! 😛 This is your business why? It affects you how? Same questions as above. Puritans started this country, and I guess they’re still around. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > My point is, walk around during the day and think about what you could do right then and there without anybody knowing. > You could kill someone, rape someone, do drugs, make bombs… I couldn’t do ANY of those things during the day - not without somebody noticing! Yes, people get away with terrible shit sometimes, and it sucks. > [@](#): > > This is what makes all the problems in the world, people can’t control their freedom. First off, the problem you’re pissing and moaning about is PRIVACY, not freedom. Or human choice, at least. None of the things you’re talking about are legally guaranteed or constitutionally protected freedoms in any sense, in this or any other country. > [@](#): > > Now if someone made a government, and had the resources to do surveillance on it’s citizens(and the men to apprehend whoever), would crime cease to exist? Yes, as we all know, there was no crime in the Soviet Union or Nazi Germany. Totalitarian countries are always perfectly nice places to live where everythng is great. Mass killing of citizens who hold unpopular attitudes is not a problem, and it’s certainly an acceptable price given the terrible alternative of having too much freedom. > [@](#): > > I know I have a good point, I just don’t know exactly how to discuss it. Don’t pat yourself on the back too hard there, you might sprain your arm. 😛 > [@](#): > > Whatever. You said it. Sounds too me like the problem people have isn’t too much freedom - it’s too little brains. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-have-too-much-freedom/178943/29 "2003-06-02T17:22:13Z")
Okay, time for the OP… I was dreading trying this… > [@](#): > > People have too much freedom. > See they started smoking pot, now at first I thought, “what if we get caught?”. > So I looked around… no cops, no sirens, no neighbors that would even care. So then you’re fine, and you probably won’t get caught unless you’re doing something loud and obnoxious. What’s the problem? The lack of cops? Does that mean you’d rather have police patrolling every street all the time? Perhaps you want surveillance cameras installed throughout your house? Or are you just saying your neighbors should be more actively involved in spying on you ::cough cough TIPS:: FOR the police, when you’re doing something in your own home that isn’t harming them? > [@](#): > > I mean, download a porn video and you can see the dude is banging her at his house, some fancy house up in the hollywood hills f eks. This is wrong why? It’s legal to have sex, it’s legal to videotape it. There’s nothing illegal about putting it on the 'net provided you do it properly. It’s even legal to do in Hollywood Hills. (I’d ask why that matters, but I figure you were drunk when you wrote this and I shouldn’t even be answering it in the first place.) If it’s what you want to do - and again, I see no demonstrable harm being done to you or anyone else - what’s wrong with it? Why should it be banned? Why should the government/police be allowed to intrude upon your life like that? If you only answer one of these questions, please make it the first one. I just don’t see why people shouldn’t be allowed to watch porn. (I find it gross myself, but hey.) > [@](#): > > They might be sniffing cocaine or shooting heroine for chr. sake. Oh dear lord! 😛 This is your business why? It affects you how? Same questions as above. Puritans started this country, and I guess they’re still around. :rolleyes: By the way, it’s spelled HEROIN. If you confuse the two, people think you’re talking about having sex with Wonder Woman. > [@](#): > > My point is, walk around during the day and think about what you could do right then and there without anybody knowing. > You could kill someone, rape someone, do drugs, make bombs… I couldn’t do ANY of those things during the day - not without somebody noticing! Yes, people get away with terrible shit sometimes, and it sucks. > [@](#): > > This is what makes all the problems in the world, people can’t control their freedom. First off, the problem you’re pissing and moaning about is PRIVACY, not freedom. Or human choice, at least. None of the things you’re talking about are legally guaranteed or constitutionally protected freedoms in any sense, in this or any other country. > [@](#): > > Now if someone made a government, and had the resources to do surveillance on it’s citizens(and the men to apprehend whoever), would crime cease to exist? Yes, as we all know, there was no crime in the Soviet Union or Nazi Germany. Totalitarian countries are always perfectly nice places to live where everythng is great. Mass killing of citizens who hold unpopular attitudes is not a problem, and it’s certainly an acceptable price given the terrible alternative of having too much freedom. > [@](#): > > I know I have a good point, I just don’t know exactly how to discuss it. Don’t pat yourself on the back too hard there, you might sprain your arm. 😛 > [@](#): > > Whatever. You said it. Sounds too me like the problem people have isn’t too much freedom - it’s too little brains. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-have-too-much-freedom/178943/30 "2003-06-02T17:32:52Z")
D’oh… stupid slow loading. > [@](#): > > Do you know of any US leader who has ever said or implied that there should be NO limits to freedom? The fact that there’s a leader makes it impossible to have limitless freedom. I mean, I understand what you’re saying, **John Mace** , and you’re not wrong. But there’s something jarring about having a US Presidential candidate say that. And furthermore, he wasn’t talking about social contract-style limitations to our freedom to attack each other or something like that ( **AHunter3** deals with that). He was complaining about constitutionally protected speech because he disapproved of the way someone was using it. And yes, I feel there’s a pattern of that kind of contempt for freedom in his administration - see also Fleischer’s charming remark about Bill Maher from September of 2001: “There are reminders to all Americans that they need to watch what they say, watch what they do, and this is not a time for remarks like that; there never is.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-have-too-much-freedom/178943/31 "2003-06-02T18:10:47Z")
Ari is a flunky. And what exactly happend to Maher? Nothing. He got himself fired because his bosses thought he crossed the line on tastelessness. And he’s resurected himself just fine. Let’s look back at the last time a Dem was in the White House when the US was attacked. That freedom loving Dem put how many Japanese-Americans in internment camps? I lost count. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-have-too-much-freedom/178943/32 "2003-06-02T18:32:27Z")
What if, I dunno, freedom were voluntarily limited…if people collectively said, I know I can do certain things, but doing it would hurt the society, so I won’t do it. What if there were some way to instill in people the belief that they were part of a greater whole, and that everyone has responsibilities to the society. It seems to me that that’s how societies stay together, by having a shared set of values. ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-have-too-much-freedom/178943/33 "2003-06-02T18:56:56Z")
As far as I can tell, most liberals believe we have too much freedom. Freedom allows people to make different choices, which may ultimately lead to inequality. Freedom also allows people to do and say things that are considered wrong in the liberal mindset. For example, suppose person A chooses to get an education, and eventually gets a well-paying job as a result of this decision. Meanwhile, person B does not choose to get an education and is not able to get a well-paying job. In the liberal mindset, the fact that person A makes more money than person B is an example of economic injustice. The fact that person A and person B had the freedom to choose created the inequality between their situations. Another example: Many liberals believe that genetic engineering of food is wrong and shouldn’t be done under any circumstances. So they want to restrict the freedom of scientists to work in this arena. Not only has the freedom of the scientists been compromised, but also the freedom of the consumers to choose whether they wish to purchase genetically modified products or not. Another example: Many liberals believe that freedom of speech ought to be limited. They believe that expressing certain opinions should be considered “hate speech” and should be forbidden by law. I could come up with more examples. If you listen to most liberals talk, it becomes clear very quickly that they believe freedom is the source of most of societies problems. The solutions they expouse almost always entail a reduction of freedom, supposedly for the good of society. But compasionate fascism is still fascism. ---
**Author:** ![zwaldd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a9adbd/32.png) [@zwaldd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zwaldd)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-have-too-much-freedom/178943/34 "2003-06-02T19:17:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tjblack \* > **If you listen to most liberals talk, it becomes clear very quickly that they believe freedom is the source of most of societies problems.** The only freedom they object to is the freedom of the powerful to ignore the powerless. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-have-too-much-freedom/178943/35 "2003-06-02T19:28:17Z")
> [@](#): > > Ari is a flunky. Yes… and the flunky’s bosses were apparently fine with the comment, since they didn’t ask him to apologize for what sounded to me like a threat. 😛 > [@](#): > > And what exactly happend to Maher? Nothing. He got himself fired because his bosses thought he crossed the line on tastelessness. And he’s resurected himself just fine. This is irrelevant, isn’t it? My complaint was that Fleischer made a ridiculous comment, which he did, not that he ruined Bill Maher’s career, which he didn’t. > [@](#): > > Let’s look back at the last time a Dem was in the White House when the US was attacked. That freedom loving Dem put how many Japanese-Americans in internment camps? I lost count. Yes, and that was wrong. And it justifies what Bush has done how? It doesn’t, it’s a lame attempt at changing the subject. If we were discussing the internment camps, I’d be criticizing that. I wasn’t even criticizing Republicans in general, I was talking about Bush’s people. > [@](#): > > But compasionate fascism is still fascism. This whole post is pretty funny, but come on. It’s fascism to offer aid to the poor, but no-fly lists and Total Information Awareness protect our freedom. I need a stiff drink and a plane ticket to Canada. 😛 😉 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-have-too-much-freedom/178943/36 "2003-06-02T19:35:14Z")
By the way, while the term “fascism” is thrown around by everybody and his mother these days - and I’m not trying to do it here - fascism is marked by very close ties between the government and businesses. Given Bush’s drive to privatize most everything and his very chummy ties with the corporate world, it strikes me as just goofy to call liberals fascists. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-have-too-much-freedom/178943/37 "2003-06-02T20:19:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tjblack \* > \*\*As far as I can tell, most liberals believe we have too much freedom. Freedom allows people to make different choices, which may ultimately lead to inequality. Freedom also allows people to do and say things that are considered wrong in the liberal mindset. > > For example, suppose person A chooses to get an education, and eventually gets a well-paying job as a result of this decision. Meanwhile, person B does not choose to get an education and is not able to get a well-paying job. In the liberal mindset, the fact that person A makes more money than person B is an example of economic injustice. The fact that person A and person B had the freedom to choose created the inequality between their situations. > > Another example: Many liberals believe that genetic engineering of food is wrong and shouldn’t be done under any circumstances. So they want to restrict the freedom of scientists to work in this arena. Not only has the freedom of the scientists been compromised, but also the freedom of the consumers to choose whether they wish to purchase genetically modified products or not. > > Another example: Many liberals believe that freedom of speech ought to be limited. They believe that expressing certain opinions should be considered “hate speech” and should be forbidden by law. > > I could come up with more examples. If you listen to most liberals talk, it becomes clear very quickly that they believe freedom is the source of most of societies problems. The solutions they expouse almost always entail a reduction of freedom, supposedly for the good of society. But compasionate fascism is still fascism. \*\* Saying “most liberals” instead of “all liberals” doesn’t absolve you of your egregious misreadings of the main currents of liberal thought. Your paragraph on education reduces people’s decisions to simple, rational economic choices, and takes no account of pre-existing circumstances that might predispose one person to get an education and another not to. You totally ignore the fact that different opportunities are open to different people, depending on their socio-economic background, current financial situation, geographical location and, yes, even if the era of affirmative action, their race, gender, religion, or sexual orientation. It must be nice to live a world where true equality of opportunity exists–send me a postcard so i know how to find the place. On genetic engineering, you are almost precisely wrong. While many liberals would probably choose not to eat genetically modified foods, the main liberal argument in this debate is not to ban such foods, but to require that they be clearly labelled as genetically modified. The corporate controllers of genetic technology, the food producers, and their conservative allies in government tell us we don’t need such labels because people get all emotional about the issue and are unable to make rational decisions. So much for your assertion that it’s liberals who want to deprive consumers of the freedom to choose. You are right that some liberals do support hate speech legislation. I disagree with these people; i think we should punish bad acts, not bad thought or bad speech. But liberals are no more prone than conservatives to being hypocritical about free speech issues; they just happen to have a problem with different aspects of speech. Perhaps the only truly consistent groups on this issue are anarchists and libertarians. Your last paragraph is asinine. Liberalism is no more “fascism” than conservatism is. And have you even glanced at the attempts of the Bush administration to curtail freedom over the past eighteen months or so, especially the Justice Department under John Ashcroft? It’s certainly true that, on a societal level, many liberals are willing to sacrifice certain freedoms in favour of security, but certainly no more so than many conservatives. Again, it’s probably only the libertarians who can claim utter consistency on this issue, and even they have their blind spots. For example, too many of them seem to believe that the _only_ possible barrier to freedom is government, and that if we just got the pesky state out of the way, everything would be fine. ---
**Author:** ![coax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3ec8ea/32.png) [@coax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coax)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-have-too-much-freedom/178943/38 "2003-06-02T21:14:49Z")
Marley23, I see no point in throwing a personal insult at me just because I posted this(the “too little brains” thing). Anyway, lots of different replies here… I’ve never said that I was for a ‘fascist’ society, or anything like that. It’s just I was thinking about freedom, and what people choose to do with their lives, and just exactly how much crime and suffering there is in this world. So I started thinking about how our society has failed, and what we did wrong. I figured we haven’t done anything wrong, we’re headed for better times now… Crime is decreasing as I understand it, and throughout history we’ve had way worse situations in the world than we have now. I just hope “man” figures this out in the end, and that we can still have freedom with a minimal amount of people who commit crimes. That is all. :\ ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-have-too-much-freedom/178943/39 "2003-06-02T21:19:31Z")
> [@](#): > > So I started thinking about how our society has failed, and what we did wrong. Who says it failed? We’ve got no shortage of problems, but that’s different. I’d say ideas like freedom and human potential go on the list of things we’ve got right so far. > [@](#): > > I figured we haven’t done anything wrong, we’re headed for better times now… Well, wait, a minute ago you said society has failed. 😕 > [@](#): > > Crime is decreasing as I understand it It is (in America), although we’ve got more people in jail than ever. In fact, we’ve now got the highest proportion of citizens in jail of any nation on Earth. That might put a bit of a damper on the “too much freedom” thing. [http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0601-01.htm](http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0601-01.htm) ---
**Author:** ![coax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3ec8ea/32.png) [@coax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coax)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-have-too-much-freedom/178943/40 "2003-06-02T21:25:47Z")
Let me correct myself then, heh, I started thinking 'have we failed ourselves and society", THEN I figured that we hadn’t. I dunno, still the whole concept of, “do whatever you want, because you can” scares me a little. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-have-too-much-freedom/178943.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-have-too-much-freedom/178943.md?page=3)