# Do people in the USA think voting SHOULD be difficult? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 21, 2012, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-in-the-usa-think-voting-should-be-difficult/632138 "2012-08-21T04:50:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-in-the-usa-think-voting-should-be-difficult/632138/21 "2012-08-22T03:39:56Z")
Voting should be as easy as possible. It should also be simple. (No more complicated “butterfly” ballots!) Everybody should vote. Yes, even stupid people, ignorant people, and nasty, horrible, bigoted people. God help us all if their candidates win, but they should vote. Democracy itself, as an ideal, has value. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-in-the-usa-think-voting-should-be-difficult/632138/22 "2012-08-22T07:30:31Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > “Doesn’t exist” is probably incorrect. I’ll stick with “doesn’t exist” for in-person voter impersonation. [From here](http://www.iwatchnews.org/node/10662): > [@](#): > > A News21 analysis of 2,068 alleged election-fraud cases since 2000 shows that while fraud has occurred, the rate is infinitesimal, and in-person voter impersonation on Election Day, which prompted 37 state legislatures to enact or consider tough voter ID laws, is virtually non-existent. > > In an exhaustive public records search, News21 reporters sent thousands of requests to elections officers in all 50 states, asking for every case of fraudulent activity including registration fraud, absentee ballot fraud, vote buying, false election counts, campaign fraud, casting an ineligible vote, voting twice, voter impersonation fraud and intimidation. > > Analysis of the resulting comprehensive News21 election fraud database turned up 10 cases of voter impersonation. With 146 million registered voters in the United States during that time, those 10 cases represent one out of about every 15 million prospective voters. OK, so technically it should be _virtually_ non-existent. Fucking sue me. > [@](#): > > Sunland Park, NM has been rocked by scandals relating to the recent mayoral election. Allegations include bribery, extortion, and voter fraud. So far, nine government officials have been accused of voter fraud. These are indictments, not convictions, but the suspicion does exist. Oh my god, bribery exists. Let’s disenfranchise the poor and minorities. A more famous case occured in the 1960 presidential election. > **[1960 United States presidential election](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1960)** > > Dwight D. Eisenhower > Republican > John F. Kennedy > Democratic [/QUOTE] Yes, let’s go back to the 1960s to solve a problem which doesn’t exist as anything but a fig leaf for [the real reason](http://www.salon.com/2012/06/25/penn_republican_voter_id_will_help_romney_win/). > [@](#): > > Some even claim the laws are designed to intentionally sway elections by suppressing the vote of demographics that tend to vote Democratic (mostly young people and minorities). Republicans, of course, always deny this and say they are merely trying to protect the security of the vote and prevent fraud. > > But one of Pennsylvania’s top Republican leaders may have tipped his hand this weekend when he suggested to a meeting of Republican officials that the purpose of voter ID laws is to help his party’s presidential nominee win. PoliticsPA’s Kelly Cernetich quoted state House Majority Leader Mike Turzai at the Republican State Committee meeting: > > ``` > He mentioned the law among a laundry list of accomplishments made by the GOP-run legislature. “Pro-Second Amendment? The Castle Doctrine, it’s done. First pro-life legislation – abortion facility regulations – in 22 years, done. Voter ID, which is gonna allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania, done.” > > ``` So, who are you going to believe? Some guy on the Net or the Pennsylvania House Majority Leader who helped get it passed? Here’s the problem. There are millions of people who don’t have government IDs, and which it’s n[ot easy to get](http://www.brennancenter.org/content/resource/study_500000_americans_could_face_significant_challenges_to_obtain_photo_id/). > [@](#): > > The Center’s research shows 1 in 10 eligible voters lack the necessary government-issued photo ID required by new restrictive voter ID laws, including 25 percent of African-Americans and 18 percent of Americans over 65. > > Even if someone seeking photo ID manages to travel to an ID-issuing office, there is no guarantee it will be open during regular business hours. In Wisconsin, Alabama, and Mississippi, fewer than half of all ID-issuing offices are open five days a week. None are open on weekends. And some offices maintain truly unusual hours: the office in Woodville, Mississippi is open only on the second Thursday of each month. > > The report also provides an extensive look at the scarcity of ID-issuing offices in areas heavily populated by people of color and those in poverty — the exact population that most lack government-issued photo ID. > > In 11 Alabama counties within the rural “black belt,” there are more than 60,000 eligible black voters but no driver’s license offices open more than two days per week. In Texas, in 32 counties near the Mexico border, there are 80,000 Hispanic eligible voters but only two such ID-issuing offices. Across the voter ID states, many of the offices with limited hours are located in rural areas with high concentrations of minority voters. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-in-the-usa-think-voting-should-be-difficult/632138/23 "2012-08-22T13:00:55Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > You know, the local government is typically considered the ‘public servant’ of the residents, and yes in fact you can just open the phone book and contact them, and yes they do have to actually manage to do their jobs, and one of the jobs of the local government is arranging voting, and one of the services is providing absentee ballots. I am soooo sorry you consider picking a phone up once a year to be horribly inconvenient and a huge huge huge bother, but you know, it beats not being _allowed_ to vote because you are female or colored. Show me where any of these voter ID laws provide for funding and staff to go to a persons home and take their picture and process their voter ID. Again, you are being deliberately obtuse and engaging in magical thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-in-the-usa-think-voting-should-be-difficult/632138/24 "2012-08-22T13:59:35Z")
All I ever take away from these voter ID threads is a sense that getting my drivers license renewed is much more difficult than it should be. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-in-the-usa-think-voting-should-be-difficult/632138/25 "2012-08-23T03:52:16Z")
Last birthday my driver license was no longer eligible for extension, so I had to replace it, paying about $30 for the privilege. A non-driver ID card in my state is cheaper, but not by much. If I were too poor to drive a car that would be a high price to pay for something which is meant to be my right by birth or by naturalization. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-in-the-usa-think-voting-should-be-difficult/632138/26 "2012-08-23T09:11:17Z")
There are four types of people 1. They believe voting should be easy and encouraged, even at the cost of security 2. They believe voting should be secure, even at the cost of ease or expense 3. They believe there should be some kind of barrier to voting to ensure votes are serious and well considered 4. They believe only the “right” sort of voters should be voting, and will pretend to be one of the other three in order to further their goals I don’t object to voter ID ideologically, but I agree it has strong pragmatic problems that would have to be seriously addressed. And it’s obvious and unfortunate that many of the legislators who are proponents are creepily disingenuous. I certainly wouldn’t advocate starting a program without working out all the kinks first, and it’s ridiculous that people are trying to do it right before an election. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-in-the-usa-think-voting-should-be-difficult/632138/27 "2012-08-23T13:35:19Z")
It’s really very simple. Republicans do better in elections with low turnouts. So they try to discourage people from voting, particularly poor people and minorities who usually vote for the Democrats. One way that do this is by pretending that there’s a problem with voter fraud that doesn’t exist. To “solve” this make-believe problem they make it harder to vote. It’s a profoundly cynical and unAmerican way to win elections, but it works because people buy into their lies. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-in-the-usa-think-voting-should-be-difficult/632138/28 "2012-08-23T14:27:07Z")
I went to the elections office to ask what is needed to register to vote. The elections office asked for a copy of my passport to prove my eligibility to vote. Is that so terrible? I am not a citizen of the country where I live and made the inquiry. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-in-the-usa-think-voting-should-be-difficult/632138/29 "2012-08-23T15:03:59Z")
Last time I checked, it cost something like $130 to get a passport. That’s an expensive piece of identification. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-in-the-usa-think-voting-should-be-difficult/632138/30 "2012-08-23T15:15:58Z")
Bottom line: it ISN’T hard to vote. Perhaps there are ways it could be made easier, but getting registered to vote requires nothing more than filling out a postcard- one that can be found at almost any post office, library or other government-run building (or that can be mailed to you, if you call the local city or county clerk). After that, you can vote if you show your voter registration card or any other form of ID. It’s NOT hard. and frankly, gven how often most of us have to show ID during the course of an ordinary week, I can’t feel too sorry for anyone who thinks showing a driver’s license is an onerous, unfair burden. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-in-the-usa-think-voting-should-be-difficult/632138/31 "2012-08-23T15:21:22Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > Show me where any of these voter ID laws provide for funding and staff to go to a persons home and take their picture and process their voter ID. Again, you are being deliberately obtuse and engaging in magical thinking. Somehow we seem to get from “evil Republicans are trying to disenfranchise people by requiring a state ID card” to “evil Republicans are trying to disenfranchise people because they won’t send camera crews door-to-door”. _:shrugs:_ Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-in-the-usa-think-voting-should-be-difficult/632138/32 "2012-08-23T15:42:28Z")
> [@grude](#): > > I just wanted to add that voter registration as a seperate issue also introduces another piece of ID that needs to be kept and produced the voter registration card, if you roll registration into state ID this is also eliminated. FWIW, I don’t recall having to actually show my voter registration card the last time I voted; I’ve gone to the polling place without it and not been asked for it. My card is issued by the **county** election office. It gets mailed to me periodically (once a year? before every election? I’m not sure), and it tells me where to go to vote and what jurisdictions I’m entitled to vote in. It also has a form to fill out and mail in if I change my address, and it says that I have to re-register to vote if I change my name or move out of the county. > [@Trinopus](#): > > Voting should be as easy as possible. It should also be simple. (No more complicated “butterfly” ballots!) > > Everybody should vote. Yes, even stupid people, ignorant people, and nasty, horrible, bigoted people. Even dead people? Are you from Chicago? 🙂 > [@jackdavinci](#): > > There are four types of people > > 1. They believe voting should be easy and encouraged, even at the cost of security It looks like **Trinopus** is an example of that kind of person. I suppose even those people would be upset if their candidate or party were to lose an election because of voter fraud—they just don’t believe that’s at all likely. > [@astorian](#): > > It’s NOT hard. and frankly, **gven how often most of us have to show ID** during the course of an ordinary week, I can’t feel too sorry for anyone who thinks showing a driver’s license is an onerous, unfair burden. [We do??](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=661822) For many of us in the US, being able to drive is practically a necessity, so of course we have driver’s licenses, and so having to show ID for other things such as voting imposes very little additional burden. The issue is how difficult it is for _other_ people, who don’t have driver’s licenses. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-in-the-usa-think-voting-should-be-difficult/632138/33 "2012-08-23T15:51:38Z")
> [@Mdcastleman](#): > > I never voted This is fairly common. Voter turnout has trended down over the last several decades, with a slight increase in the last presidential election, because of Obama. Voter turnout is actually lower for local elections, even though they are probably more impactful on individuals lives than the outcome of the national elections. The rhetoric that get’s thrown around for this issue is generally political. An overwhelming high % of people that want to vote do and figure out how to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-in-the-usa-think-voting-should-be-difficult/632138/34 "2012-08-23T18:16:17Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Somehow we seem to get from “evil Republicans are trying to disenfranchise people by requiring a state ID card” to “evil Republicans are trying to disenfranchise people because they won’t send camera crews door-to-door”. > > _:shrugs:_ > > Regards, > Shodan Ok, so now you are just making sh\*t up and attributing it to me. I respectfully request that you do not do that. Cheers, Icarus ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-in-the-usa-think-voting-should-be-difficult/632138/35 "2012-08-23T18:31:52Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > [We do??](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=661822) Yeah, “we” do. I have to show my driver’s license to somebody or other 4 or 5 times a week. And I’m a middle-aged white guy, so I can’t even claim discrimination. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-in-the-usa-think-voting-should-be-difficult/632138/36 "2012-08-23T18:47:16Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Yeah, “we” do. I have to show my driver’s license to somebody or other 4 or 5 times a week. > > And I’m a middle-aged white guy, so I can’t even claim discrimination. I rarely have to show my license to anyone for any reason. I think I did a couple of weeks ago when I was making a big purchase with a credit card. ---
**Author:** ![Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershele_Ostropoler)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-in-the-usa-think-voting-should-be-difficult/632138/37 "2012-08-23T22:53:15Z")
It seems to me the primary forms of fraud are: [ol] [li]Buying votes, i.e., paying voters to vote a particular way[/li][li]Putting nonce votes into the system[/li][/ol] Neither of these is presented by requiring me to prove that I’m Hershele Ostropoler. Ensuring that my vote is cast by me does nothing to prevent that vote from being illegally influenced, nor does it stop the votes cast by nobody. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-in-the-usa-think-voting-should-be-difficult/632138/38 "2012-08-23T22:53:45Z")
Just being able to show your registration card that gets mailed to your house every year does seem sufficient to me, for both sides of the debate. Is that an acceptable form of ID under these new laws? ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-in-the-usa-think-voting-should-be-difficult/632138/39 "2012-08-24T01:24:15Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > It’s really very simple. Republicans do better in elections with low turnouts. So they try to discourage people from voting, particularly poor people and minorities who usually vote for the Democrats. One way that do this is by pretending that there’s a problem with voter fraud that doesn’t exist. To “solve” this make-believe problem they make it harder to vote. It’s a profoundly cynical and unAmerican way to win elections, but it works because people buy into their lies. Oh no. This isn’t true at all. It’s a very American way, as is discrimination. It’s just that people pretend that we’re better than other countries. We are in some ways and not others. Oh, I guess that makes me an atheist who hates America now. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-in-the-usa-think-voting-should-be-difficult/632138/40 "2012-08-24T01:56:14Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > Just being able to show your registration card that gets mailed to your house every year does seem sufficient to me, for both sides of the debate. Is that an acceptable form of ID under these new laws? It depends… do you normally vote Democratic? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-in-the-usa-think-voting-should-be-difficult/632138.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-in-the-usa-think-voting-should-be-difficult/632138.md?page=3)