# Do people just not understand they shouldn't point lasers at aircraft? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 12, 2015, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-just-not-understand-they-shouldnt-point-lasers-at-aircraft/737380 "2015-11-12T16:17:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ac8455/32.png) [@Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Your_Great_Darsh_Face)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2015, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-just-not-understand-they-shouldnt-point-lasers-at-aircraft/737380/41 "2015-11-13T18:30:53Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I know I might have tried it. (I tried it on the moon once.) Pish. Only rank amateurs tool around with pointing _lasers_ at the moon. You want to get anything meaningful done, you need to show commitment. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2015, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-just-not-understand-they-shouldnt-point-lasers-at-aircraft/737380/42 "2015-11-13T18:36:14Z")
> [@Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](#): > > Pish. Only rank amateurs tool around with pointing _lasers_ at the moon. You want to get anything meaningful done, you need to show commitment. You left out the link: [Laser Pointer](http://what-if.xkcd.com/13/) šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2015, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-just-not-understand-they-shouldnt-point-lasers-at-aircraft/737380/43 "2015-11-13T18:55:13Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Of course they donā€™t know. Why would they? Are there any warnings on the packaging? > > I mean, these are toys used to make cats do silly things. You guys talk like this is common knowledge. > > I know I might have tried it. (I tried it on the moon once.) Now I wonā€™t. Itā€™s ridiculous to say that getting the information out there would not help. > [@madmonk28](#): > > You honestly needed to be told not to shine a light in the eyes of a person piloting an aircraft? No, I honestly would need to be told that Iā€™d have a snowballā€™s chance of being able to do so, unless the light beam was sufficiently diffused by that point to render it harmless. If I was standing at one end of a football field, and you propped up a mannequin at the other end of the football field, I doubt I could hold the pointer steadily and accurately enough to put that red dot on the mannequinā€™s face, let alone in its eyes. So weā€™ve got an airplane a thousand feet up, moving at a couple hundred miles per hour on takeoff or landing. No, the idea that I could threaten it with a standard office laser pointer would never have occurred to me. Still seems extremely improbable to me. Maybe some people have steadier hands than I do. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2015, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-just-not-understand-they-shouldnt-point-lasers-at-aircraft/737380/44 "2015-11-13T19:18:26Z")
And this is where people go wrong. At the distance of the airplane, the dangerous cone for the laser is 50 feet across. Itā€™s not a dot. You donā€™t need to maneuver a tiny dot onto an eyeball at two miles. All you need to do is put a 50 foot circle so it briefly sweeps across any of the cockpit windows. Once. And the disconnect between what Iā€™m saying here and what \*\*RTFirefly \*\*was thinking is exactly how decent ordinary citizens (such as he) are doing this in their hundreds or thousands every year. It \*sounds \*innocuous in the extreme. But itā€™s not really. Hence the need for significant public education. If for some reason fancy lasers become the hot toy this Christmas for older boys and younger men this will really be a mess. ---
**Author:** ![Ionizer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5daacb/32.png) [@Ionizer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ionizer)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2015, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-just-not-understand-they-shouldnt-point-lasers-at-aircraft/737380/45 "2015-11-13T20:45:41Z")
> [@Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](#): > > Pish. Only rank amateurs tool around with pointing _lasers_ at the moon. You want to get anything meaningful done, you need to show commitment. (Off topic somewhat) I know the above was most likely in jest, **Your Great Darsh Face** , but, just in case, and in interest of fighting possible ignorance - lasers are _extremely_ useful in astronomy/space-imaging. [Hereā€™s one article by Bad Astronomer](http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2014/04/19/laser_ranging_to_the_moon_zapping_the_lunar_eclipse.html) (former Doper!) telling how lasers are used to measure our Moonā€™s distance from us very accurately. Plus, many astronomy observatories use a laserā€™s reflection off Moon and its Apollo moon-landing missionsā€™ carefully placed mirrors to measure Earthā€™s atmospheric ā€˜disturbancesā€™ to optically correct for atmospherical distortions of incoming light-energy for such during their often lengthy imaging views of the heavens above. [Hereā€™s a look at Google Images of such happening.](https://www.google.com/search?q=astronomy+laser+at+moon&safe=off&biw=819&bih=530&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CCUQsARqFQoTCJ_i_IOcjskCFUr0YwodNeoLkg) So, pointing lasers (of much, much higher power than those handhelds, I am sure) at Moon is widely used and has led to better science results (!). Pretty cool, I think. Now, back to bit about planes and lasersā€¦just donā€™t do it. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2015, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-just-not-understand-they-shouldnt-point-lasers-at-aircraft/737380/46 "2015-11-13T21:11:09Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > No, I honestly would need to be told that Iā€™d have a snowballā€™s chance of being able to do so, unless the light beam was sufficiently diffused by that point to render it harmless. > > If I was standing at one end of a football field, and you propped up a mannequin at the other end of the football field, I doubt I could hold the pointer steadily and accurately enough to put that red dot on the mannequinā€™s face, let alone in its eyes. > > So weā€™ve got an airplane a thousand feet up, moving at a couple hundred miles per hour on takeoff or landing. No, the idea that I could threaten it with a standard office laser pointer would never have occurred to me. Still seems extremely improbable to me. Maybe some people have steadier hands than I do. The idea isnā€™t that you would be able to target the pilotā€™s eyes, but that you wouldnā€™t be able to NOT accidentally flash it in his eyes for the very reasons you state. The person is flying a plane, leave him be. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2015, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-just-not-understand-they-shouldnt-point-lasers-at-aircraft/737380/47 "2015-11-13T21:32:22Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > And this is where people go wrong. At the distance of the airplane, the dangerous cone for the laser is 50 feet across. Itā€™s not a dot. > > You donā€™t need to maneuver a tiny dot onto an eyeball at two miles. All you need to do is put a 50 foot circle so it briefly sweeps across any of the cockpit windows. Once. See, I knew itā€™s dangerous, the light will spread, etc., but I had NO clue itā€™d be 50 feet across! Man, thatā€™s huge. Iā€™ve always known that you do NOT aim a laser pointer at someoneā€™s eye (and that you NEVER look directly into the laser). Iā€™m sure this is relatively common knowledge, but not universal. But even of the people who know laser pointers can blind you, Iā€™m betting the vast majority donā€™t have any clue that the beam spreads out, like, at all. Most people either never take a physics class or forget everything from it after that semester. The beam width stays skinny for the length \*they \*can see it, so why would it occur to them that itā€™d widen? Especially to 50ā€™ across! So I would bet that the people who do this shit think thereā€™s probably no chance in hell the laser would actually reach the plane (aiming at a moving target, etc.). And if it DID, what are the odds that the suuuper skinny laser beam will directly go into the pilotā€™s eyeball? And it wouldnā€™t occur to them that the windshield can refract/intensify the light, either. All of those assumptions are WRONG, of course. But itā€™s not absurd for people who donā€™t know much about optics\* to reach those conclusions. - which is the vast majority. ---
**Author:** ![Grestarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grestarian/32/3227_2.png) [@Grestarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grestarian)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-just-not-understand-they-shouldnt-point-lasers-at-aircraft/737380/48 "2015-11-14T00:14:15Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > I have one of those little 3-inch laser pointers (on a key ring, no less.) One night I went out in the backyard, pointed it at a nearby school building, and made a nice, visible red circle on the wall. > > I checked the distance. 810 feet:eek: Yep! Those are the ones I was talking about. Kids donā€™t know any better, and theyā€™re too young to understand if you try to explain it. Parents either A: donā€™t know, B: donā€™t care, C: or just want the kid to quit begging for it ā€“G! D: All of the Above :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Renee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/renee/32/287_2.png) [@Renee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-just-not-understand-they-shouldnt-point-lasers-at-aircraft/737380/49 "2015-11-14T00:38:51Z")
Iā€™m actually kind of curious now if a lot of kids are being blinded by holding these ā€œtoysā€ up to their eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-just-not-understand-they-shouldnt-point-lasers-at-aircraft/737380/50 "2015-11-14T01:07:57Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Iā€™m going to go against the grain and suggest that most of these incidents are brain-off stupidity not malice. To be sure the aparrent increase in ā€œme first, f\*\*\* youā€ so called ā€œattitudeā€ means in 2015 more people make a habit of thinking of nothing beyond their own interests when thinking or doing anything. But not thinking before doing has a long and storied tradition in humanity. Iā€™ll suggest that ā€œstupidityā€ is not quite the right word here. I agree that itā€™s largely a function of people not considering the consequences of their actions either at all, or not beyond their own immediate gratification. As you say, trying to hit an object with a gun/laser/whatever is fun, and if you lack any consideration of the target, then thereā€™s nothing to stop you from performing that action. So itā€™s not quite stupidity but rather a lack of that inner voice that says ā€œhey, maybe you should think things through a bit before doing thatā€¦ā€. Of course the two things are closely related, but Iā€™ve met plenty of people that are highly intelligent in some particular field that lack that voice. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-just-not-understand-they-shouldnt-point-lasers-at-aircraft/737380/51 "2015-11-14T02:00:52Z")
Agreed. As I said: ā€œā€¦ brain-off stupidity ā€¦ā€ If your brain is off, whether from lazy habit, selfish habit, excess beer, or good old fashioned low birth IQ, the result is the same. You donā€™t behave as a thoughtful judicious adult. Instead stuff just happens with your higher functions passively watching whatever it is your lower functions just did. I agree that lack of IQ isnā€™t the cause for the vast majority of functional stupidity in the world. Brain-offness is an acquired behavior. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-just-not-understand-they-shouldnt-point-lasers-at-aircraft/737380/52 "2015-11-14T07:21:22Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > The idea isnā€™t that you would be able to target the pilotā€™s eyes, but that you wouldnā€™t be able to NOT accidentally flash it in his eyes for the very reasons you state. I think that would be the reasons **LSLGuy** states. > [@](#): > > The person is flying a plane, leave him be. Hey, Iā€™m not doing anything with a laser pointer outside. Hell, I havenā€™t even used my laser pointer for anything at all in several years, not even to tease the cats. Iā€™m just pointing out the reasons that this particular issue has never crossed my mind, nor would have if I were the sort to use it outside. Iā€™m not asking for an explanation of the science here, Iā€™m just saying that AFAICT the general understanding (and certainly mine) of a laserā€™s power and utility is based on the \*lack \*of diffusion of its beam. So turning it around and saying that the danger of lasers in this situation is _because_ the beam diffuses considerably - no, this isnā€™t going to be intuitive to most people. The general notion in this thread that people who aim their lasers at airplanes must be acting maliciously because the risks are so obvious strikes me as total nonsense. I bet 90% of Americans would have no fucking clue. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-just-not-understand-they-shouldnt-point-lasers-at-aircraft/737380/53 "2015-11-14T17:35:44Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > While even a little laser pointer can cause flash blindness, much brighter lasers are now available for a pittance. Lasers capable of lighting matches or paper are also available if one knows where to look. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-just-not-understand-they-shouldnt-point-lasers-at-aircraft/737380/54 "2015-11-14T17:44:58Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Lasers capable of lighting matches or paper are also available if one knows where to look. Iā€™d actually like to have one of those, if you want to PM me. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-just-not-understand-they-shouldnt-point-lasers-at-aircraft/737380/55 "2015-11-14T18:31:21Z")
Google knows where they are. Hereā€™s one of dozens of dedicated online retailers [http://www.wickedlasers.com/](http://www.wickedlasers.com/) An Amazon search for ā€œhigh power laserā€ produces 62,000 hits. Sixty two thousand. Not all are hand helds, but the majority are. This is not a hush hush secret. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-just-not-understand-they-shouldnt-point-lasers-at-aircraft/737380/56 "2015-11-16T18:21:35Z")
Why are these things even _legal_? No, thatā€™s not quite what I mean to ask . . .um, what purpose do they serve / why do people buy them? Aside from the super weak one that I bought to entertain my cat (which did not prove to be very entertaining, btw) what the hell would I ever use a strong one for? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-just-not-understand-they-shouldnt-point-lasers-at-aircraft/737380/57 "2015-11-16T21:30:32Z")
Science experiments. Our green lasers arenā€™t strong enough to set things on fire but the cats love 'em. Ours are much more interested in greens than weak little reds and the greens take standard batteries (size AAA). ---
**Author:** ![Grestarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grestarian/32/3227_2.png) [@Grestarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grestarian)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-just-not-understand-they-shouldnt-point-lasers-at-aircraft/737380/58 "2015-11-17T00:59:39Z")
> [@WOOKINPANUB](#): > > Why are these things even _legal_? No, thatā€™s not quite what I mean to ask . . .um, what purpose do they serve / why do people buy them? Aside from the super weak one that I bought to entertain my cat (which did not prove to be very entertaining, btw) what the hell would I ever use a strong one for? When I first started seeing them on sale ā€“ over $20 at Costco for a 5-inch pointer ā€“ they were being sold as great gifts for your favorite teacher, to replace the old-fashioned stick he/she was using at the blackboard (or whiteboard, as the case may be). Only about a decade later did I see the 3-inch versions being sold as cat toys (and now as kid toysā€¦). :dubious: ā€“G! Do not attribute to malice what is better understood as mere ignorance. ā€¦ā€“Confucius ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-just-not-understand-they-shouldnt-point-lasers-at-aircraft/737380/59 "2015-11-17T02:02:08Z")
> [@WOOKINPANUB](#): > > No, thatā€™s not quite what I mean to ask . . .um, what purpose do they serve / why do people buy them? Theyā€™re great for amateur astronomy. An interesting effect of a beam with semi-infinite extent is that if you point it at a distant object, like a star, nearby observers will also see the beam terminate at that object, even though theyā€™re at a different angle. I have a ~100 mW green laser that will [light a match](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A62o0Ao3uy8), which I bought long before they came into the public consciousness. It really is just absurdly bright. To be honest, the 5 to 10 mW models work just as well for astronomy and donā€™t pose much danger (though you still donā€™t want to point them at aircraft). ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2018, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-just-not-understand-they-shouldnt-point-lasers-at-aircraft/737380/60 "2018-06-22T13:04:30Z")
Bumped. Itā€™s been a problem for U.S. military pilots these days, in the South China Sea and in Djibouti: [https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/22/politics/pacific-ocean-us-military-jets-lasers-intl/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/22/politics/pacific-ocean-us-military-jets-lasers-intl/index.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-just-not-understand-they-shouldnt-point-lasers-at-aircraft/737380.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-just-not-understand-they-shouldnt-point-lasers-at-aircraft/737380.md?page=4)