# Do people really believe that Obama is a Communist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 18, 2008, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442 "2008-08-18T16:35:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442/1 "2008-08-18T16:35:03Z")
I’ve seen the bumper stickers and t-shirts calling Barack Obama a Communist or a Socialist. Do the people displaying these really believe this is true or is it just something they’re saying because they don’t like Obama? I have no problem with those people who don’t want to vote for Obama because he’s a Democrat but let’s face facts, he’s not a Socialist or a Communist. It’s as ridiculous as claiming McCain is a member of the Nazi Party. So what’s the point? If you oppose Obama’s election, publically declaring that you’re grossly ignorant of basic political issues is unlikely to sway any other voters to follow your example. Is the point that everyone is in on the joke? They know that Obama isn’t a Communist and they know that you know it also, so it’s just a hyperbolic statement of opposition? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442/2 "2008-08-18T16:38:48Z")
If something is said often enough, people start to believe it. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442/3 "2008-08-18T16:44:52Z")
He listed as a childhood mentor a member of the CPUSA ([cite](http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/obama-confirms-relationship-red-mentor/)), and many of his economic positions tend in the socialist direction. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442/4 "2008-08-18T16:44:54Z")
If you were to ask them, “What’s a Communist?” I suspect you would get a fuzzy answer that boils down to “Liberal bad guy, enemy.” If you were to ask them, “What’s a Liberal?” I suspect you would get a fuzzy answer that boils down to “Bad guy, enemy, who wants to raise my taxes.” So, to answer your question - yes, they really believe it. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442/5 "2008-08-18T16:54:09Z")
They think he’s a Joe McCarthy Communist (basically an educated social-welfare liberal who’s been exposed to too many un-American influences), not a Joe Stalin Communist (as in card-carrying doctrinaire party agitator). ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442/6 "2008-08-18T16:56:41Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] He listed as a childhood mentor a member of the CPUSA ([cite](http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/obama-confirms-relationship-red-mentor/)) [/QUOTE] Jesus, are we back to McCarthyism, where if you have any Communist associate you are a Communist? Fox News makes me want to puke. Not that CNN is any better. The only time I watched CNN in the last month was when I flipped on it long enough to hear Glenn Beck say that he thought Obama was a “Marxist.” I had to change the channel before I threw something at the TV. So either Glenn Beck thinks Obama is a Marxist, or he is a liar. Take your pick. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442/7 "2008-08-18T16:58:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Do people really believe that Obama is a Communist? Wouldn’t surprise me a bit. People believe in Big Foot and that the US government was responsible for 9/11, that the moon landings were fake and that there was a vast conspiracy to kill Kennedy involving the US government and the Mob (and space aliens to). They believe that a balloon train to monitory Soviet nuclear activity was a crashed alien space craft and that the Republican plays dirty political tricks while the Dems are pure like snowflake… 😛 So…yeah, doesn’t seem a stretch to me that some clueless people think Obama is a communist. Even less of a stretch that people would consider him a socialist (he’s closer to that than being a communist). > [@](#): > > Do the people displaying these really believe this is true or is it just something they’re saying because they don’t like Obama? No, I think that the majority of people putting this on their car probably really believe it at some level. Now, if you asked them to define what a communist IS…well, that’s another matter. Also, there is an aspect of painting Obama with the communist brush because people in the US have a very negative view of communists and communism. Socialism to is not exactly going to be giving most people warm and fuzzy feeling about anyone who is successfully painted with that brush (well, among the center and right wings anyway). > [@](#): > > It’s as ridiculous as claiming McCain is a member of the Nazi Party. Agreed. Sort of like all those nut cases who were (and still are for all I know) trying to paint Bush as a Nazi, or at least to compare him to the Nazi party. How many debates did we have on this board about that in the last 7 years? No idea here…but it was more than one. > [@](#): > > So what’s the point? If you oppose Obama’s election, publically declaring that you’re grossly ignorant of basic political issues is unlikely to sway any other voters to follow your example. Is the point that everyone is in on the joke? They know that Obama isn’t a Communist and they know that you know it also, so it’s just a hyperbolic statement of opposition? Well, there isn’t one point. There are multiple points to this, as with all things political. One point is that many people who put these kinds of bumper stickers on their cars actually believe it. Look at all the anti-Bush bumper stickers…some of them are really out there. Well, same here with Obama. Another point is to try and fix a label or concept to someone. If people can associate Obama with communists and/or socialists then it will be a negative label affixed to him, no? And he will have to spend energy (and money) disputing it (if they are successful)…taking away energy and money from things he’d rather be talking about. This is standard US politics 101 here…give the tools (such as bumper stickers) to the poor schlubs out there who actually believe this kind of tripe, and see what happens. If it gets traction, then great. If not…well, the faithful will appreciate it in any case. Think of all those folks happily motoring about with ‘Impeach Bush!’ on their bumpers. Well, the right wing nutters need something to make them feel good to, no? -XT ---
**Author:** ![Bobotheoptimist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/919ad9/32.png) [@Bobotheoptimist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bobotheoptimist)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442/8 "2008-08-18T17:11:48Z")
Big “S” Marxist type Socialist, of course not. Certainly not a commie, but yeah he’s pretty close to some of the 100 different definitions of “socialism”. From what I’ve heard, a _social democracy_ wouldn’t offend him terribly. Some people deny that social democracy is a form of socialism, so it’s all a matter of definitions. And I don’t think he’s a Muslim or give a damn if he wears a flag pin. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442/9 "2008-08-18T17:41:02Z")
> [@](#): > > He listed as a childhood mentor a member of the CPUSA (cite), and many of his economic positions tend in the socialist direction. By that loose a standard, Ronald Reagan, Barry Goldwater, and John Wayne were all Communists as well. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442/10 "2008-08-18T17:47:15Z")
> [@](#): > > People believe in Big Foot and that the US government was responsible for 9/11, that the moon landings were fake and that there was a vast conspiracy to kill Kennedy involving the US government and the Mob (and space aliens to). Exactly. This is my point. Why should I give any more respect to somebody who claims that Barack Obama is a Communist then I should to somebody who claims that he’s a Muslim or that he’s a Lizardman from Alpha Draconis? These are people who are proclaiming that their political beliefs are not connected with reality. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442/11 "2008-08-18T17:52:47Z")
Not me, but I just heard McCain is a member of the Nazi party. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442/12 "2008-08-18T18:10:27Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] By that loose a standard, Ronald Reagan, Barry Goldwater, and John Wayne were all Communists as well. [/QUOTE] Serious question - what member of the Communist party did Reagan and Goldwater list as childhood mentors? Unless you were talking about their economic policies. ETA: I was trying to explain why one might believe Obama is a socialist rather than asserting that he is. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442/13 "2008-08-18T18:24:24Z")
My god, that “mentor” thing is lame. Obama’s grandfather was friends with a poet and civil rights activist named [Frank Marshall Davis](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Marshall_Davis). > [@](#): > > In his autobiographical Dreams from My Father, U.S. Senator and Democratic Party presidential candidate Barack Obama wrote about “Frank”, a friend of his grandfather’s. “Frank” told Obama that he and Stanley (Obama’s maternal grandfather) both had grown up only 50 miles apart, near Wichita, although they did not meet until Hawaii. He described the way race relations were back then, including Jim Crow, and his view that there had been little progress since then. As Obama remembered, “It made me smile, thinking back on Frank and his old Black Power, dashiki self. In some ways he was as incurable as my mother, as certain in his faith, living in the same sixties time warp that Hawaii had created.”[14] So, because Barack Obama’s granfather (A WWII veteran, by the way) was friends with a commie when Barack was a child, that makes him a “mentor” and makes Obama a communist? Do you righties ever actually listen to yourselves? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442/14 "2008-08-18T18:37:08Z")
> [@](#): > > Serious question - what member of the Communist party did Reagan and Goldwater list as childhood mentors? Unless you were talking about their economic policies. Reagan, Goldwater, and Wayne all had close associates in their life who were Communist Party members. None of them were Communist themselves. Neither is Obama unless you can explain why he caught a case of contact communism and those others were immune. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442/15 "2008-08-18T18:38:39Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] My god, that “mentor” thing is lame. Obama’s grandfather was friends with a poet and civil rights activist named [Frank Marshall Davis](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Marshall_Davis). So, because Barack Obama’s granfather (A WWII veteran, by the way) was friends with a commie when Barack was a child, that makes him a “mentor” and makes Obama a communist? [/quote] Well, I have learned from past experience that no one can force someone to acknowledge the truth if they are determined enough to ignore it. > [@](#): > > Do you righties ever actually listen to yourselves? Yes, I do. Do you ever read cites? The Obama campaign has “finally acknowledged that the mysterious “Frank” in Obama’s 1995 book, Dreams From My Father, is in fact the Communist Party USA (CPUSA) member Frank Marshall Davis.” I am assuming we are going down the Wright path, where your nose is repeatedly rubbed in the facts, but to no avail. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442/16 "2008-08-18T18:42:58Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] Reagan, Goldwater, and Wayne all had close associates in their life who were Communist Party members. None of them were Communist themselves. Neither is Obama unless you can explain why he caught a case of contact communism and those others were immune. [/QUOTE] That is not what I asked - which Communists did Goldwater, Reagan and Wayne mention as childhood mentors? I read both Reagan’s and Goldwater’s autobiographies, and I don’t recall anything like this. If you do, by all means cite it. TIA. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442/17 "2008-08-18T18:46:49Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] where your nose is repeatedly rubbed in the facts [/QUOTE] I don’t think those are facts. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442/18 "2008-08-18T18:47:30Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] Well, I have learned from past experience that no one can force someone to acknowledge the truth if they are determined enough to ignore it. Yes, I do. Do you ever read cites? The Obama campaign has “finally acknowledged that the mysterious “Frank” in Obama’s 1995 book, Dreams From My Father, is in fact the Communist Party USA (CPUSA) member Frank Marshall Davis.” I am assuming we are going down the Wright path, where your nose is repeatedly rubbed in the facts, but to no avail. Regards, Shodan [/QUOTE] No one is disputing "Frank’s identity. What I’m pointing out is the idiocy of trying to extropolate that it makes Obama himself a communist. He wasn’t even really a “mentor,” just a friend of his grandfather’s. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442/19 "2008-08-18T18:48:34Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] That is not what I asked - which Communists did Goldwater, Reagan and Wayne mention as childhood mentors? I read both Reagan’s and Goldwater’s autobiographies, and I don’t recall anything like this. If you do, by all means cite it. TIA. Regards, Shodan [/QUOTE] Isn’t it more significant to question _adult_ associations than who one knew in childhood? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442/20 "2008-08-18T19:16:44Z")
Shodan, if you look up you’ll see that the title of this thread is not “Do people really believe that Frank Davis is a Communist?” Hopefully that will clear up whatever confusion you’re been experiencing as you’ve presented evidence that Davis was a Communist while the rest of us were discussing a different topic. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442.md?page=2)