# Do people really believe that Obama is a Communist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 18, 2008, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442 "2008-08-18T16:35:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442/41 "2008-08-19T00:55:29Z")
I see, so he called it ‘black’ for no apparent reason. As opposed to its sister Liberation Theology that doesn’t have any ethnic referent. > [@](#): > > “Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community … Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love.” I’m finding it hard to come over to your point of view. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442/42 "2008-08-19T01:03:59Z")
How can anyone seriously think that? Communism and Islam conflict in too many ways. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442/43 "2008-08-19T01:05:12Z")
Shodan, kaylasdad99 already made most of the points I would have made. But just to be clear, Barack Obama had a close associate who was a communist (I’m assuming Davis is dead by now if he was a friend of Obama’s grandfather). Ronald Reagan, Barry Goldwater, and John Wayne also had close associates who were communists. You seem to feel that calling Davis a “childhood mentor” creates some kind of vast distinction that seperates Obama’s association with a communist from these other people’s association with communists. Nobody else but you sees this distinction. So there’s no more evidence that Obama is a communist than there is that Reagan, Goldwater, or Wayne were communists. But as someone once said, no one can force someone to acknowledge the truth if they are determined enough to ignore it. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442/44 "2008-08-19T01:05:42Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] How can anyone seriously think that? Communism and Islam conflict in too many ways. [/QUOTE] Because people know next to nothing about either Communism or Islam? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442/45 "2008-08-19T01:32:00Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] I see, so he called it ‘black’ for no apparent reason. As opposed to its sister Liberation Theology that doesn’t have any ethnic referent. I’m finding it hard to come over to your point of view. [/QUOTE] I don’t see anything nationalistic in there. Since when is being opposed to racism nationalistic? In any case. It represents none of Barack Obama’s views. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442/46 "2008-08-19T01:37:18Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I don’t see anything nationalistic in there. Since when is being opposed to racism nationalistic? [/QUOTE] I’m sorry that’s a pro-racist view, not an anti-racist view. Black people who believe that God should be for black people and against white people are in fact, racists. You can quibble about the definition of nationalism all you want. I’m not going to argue such an insignificant and unimportant point, so I’ll concede it to you. At least though you are not arguing that there is no Marxism inherent in Liberation Theology. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442/47 "2008-08-19T01:37:41Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] I’ve seen the bumper stickers and t-shirts calling Barack Obama a Communist or a Socialist. Do the people displaying these really believe this is true or is it just something they’re saying because they don’t like Obama? [/QUOTE] Has any Democrat presidential candidate since FDR _not_ been called a socialist by many and a communist by some? It’s part and parcel of Republican negative campaigning; there are certain people who will buy it on its face, so they’d be fools not to take advantage of it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442/48 "2008-08-19T01:40:50Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] I’m sorry that’s a pro-racist view, not an anti-racist view. Black people who believe that God should be for black people and against white people are in fact, racists. You can quibble about the definition of nationalism all you want. I’m not going to argue such an insignificant and unimportant point, so I’ll concede it to you. [/quote] They’re not against all white people, just against white racism. > [@](#): > > At least though you are not arguing that there is no Marxism inherent in Liberation Theology. I don’t see that either. Are they talking about the government owning the means of production? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442/49 "2008-08-19T01:42:47Z")
I would love it if a Marxist could get elected, but it will never happen. American standards of left and right are really skewed in comparison to the rest of the world. We don’t even have a liberal party. We have a right wing party and a moderate right wing party. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442/50 "2008-08-19T01:48:34Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] They’re not against all white people, just against white racism. [/quote] You are selectively reinterpreting it to mean what you want it to mean. That is not what that quote said. > [@](#): > > I don’t see that either. Are they talking about the government owning the means of production? > **[Liberation theology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_theology)** > > Liberation theology is a Christian theological approach emphasizing the liberation of the oppressed. The term originated among Latin American Catholic theologians in the 1960s, and it has increasingly been used to describe similar approaches in other parts of the globe. It often engages in socio-economic analyses, and emphasizes social concern for those marginalized due to their social class, race, ethnicity, gender, etc. > Liberation theologies were first being discussed in the Latin American ... > [@](#): > > Liberation theology is a school of theology within Christianity, particularly in the Roman Catholic Church. Two of the starting points of Liberation theology are, first, the question of the origin of sin; and secondly, the idea that Christians should make good use of the talents given by God, and that includes intelligence in a general sense, and science in particular. Therefore, these theologians use sociology and economics sciences to understand poverty, since they considered poverty was the source of sin. In the sixties, when they started this line of thought, social sciences in Latin America and Europe were dominated by marxist activism[citation needed] and methodologies derived from historical materialism, which influenced the development of Liberation theology. They then read the Bible from the new perspective and developed the ethical consequences that led many of them to an active participation in the political life, and to focus on Jesus Christ as not only the Redeemer but also the Liberator of the oppressed. It emphasizes the Christian mission to bring justice to the poor and oppressed, particularly through political activism. Some elements of certain liberation theologies have been rejected by the Catholic Church. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442/51 "2008-08-19T02:22:33Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] You are selectively reinterpreting it to mean what you want it to mean. That is not what that quote said. > **[Liberation theology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_theology)** > > Liberation theology is a Christian theological approach emphasizing the liberation of the oppressed. The term originated among Latin American Catholic theologians in the 1960s, and it has increasingly been used to describe similar approaches in other parts of the globe. It often engages in socio-economic analyses, and emphasizes social concern for those marginalized due to their social class, race, ethnicity, gender, etc. > Liberation theologies were first being discussed in the Latin American ... [/QUOTE] Ah, well, if Obama is a “Marxist” in **that** sense, so much the better for him and for us. But I ain’t optimistic. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442/52 "2008-08-19T02:24:08Z")
It seems to me that a “socialist” is someone who envisions the economy as a whole and advocates transforming it so as to dedicate it to providing benefits to the public, particularly the lower classes–in order to make it up to them. But most Democrats take a bottom-up approach with a series of single-issues that are seen to add up. It’s terrible that people who need medical care face bankruptcy, so wouldn’t it be nice if we set up a system to make it affordable for everyone? Meanwhile, isn’t it great that every child is entitled to a free education in the public schools? Let’s try to keep them from falling apart any further. Over there are some folks who want to make sure that benefits to retirees remain intact, and there there’s the social safety net to help people who are on the verge of destitution. Add to that police, fire, and military, and you’ve got a pretty tall order. But that’s all it is–a tall order. It’s not like Obama and other Dems are motived on every issue by the principle of What Would Karl Marx Do. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442/53 "2008-08-19T02:37:12Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Ah, well, if Obama is a “Marxist” in **that** sense, so much the better for him and for us. But I ain’t optimistic. [/QUOTE] I don’t think Obama wants the government to control the means of production. He’s no Marxist. I was just pointing out that it’s not as simple as ‘heh heh heh silly redneck doesn’t know what communist means.’ ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442/54 "2008-08-19T02:51:08Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] I don’t think Obama wants the government to control the means of production. He’s no Marxist. I was just pointing out that it’s not as simple as ‘heh heh heh silly redneck doesn’t know what communist means.’ [/QUOTE] Oh, yes, it is. Marx’s doctrines have had very wide and varied influences over the past century and a half and it is ignorant to apply the label “Communist” to every school of thought in any way influenced by them. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442/55 "2008-08-19T02:51:24Z")
I think it kind of is that simple. These are not brain surgeons we’re talking about. They think economic liberalism and socialism are synonomous. They’re not. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442/56 "2008-08-19T02:57:15Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I think it kind of is that simple. [/QUOTE] Of course you do. [Obama’s Women Reveal his Secret](http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/JB26Aa01.html) I’m not posting this because I agree with it, in fact I pissed off the author mightily in my disagreement. I’m just pointing out that some people who make arguments about these things do know the difference. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442/57 "2008-08-19T03:09:28Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] Of course you do. [Obama’s Women Reveal his Secret](http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/JB26Aa01.html) I’m not posting this because I agree with it, in fact I pissed off the author mightily in my disagreement. I’m just pointing out that some people who make arguments about these things do know the difference. [/QUOTE] I don’t understand the relevance of this article to the subject. it’s a misogynistic hit piece on Obama, his wife and his mother by a far right wing crank. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442/58 "2008-08-19T03:51:50Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I don’t understand the relevance of this article to the subject. it’s a misogynistic hit piece on Obama, his wife and his mother by a far right wing crank. [/QUOTE] A far right wing crank who understands the difference between the two ideas that you presented in the post I was responding to. Someone who actually knows a bit about the debate. But if ‘huh huh huh silly redneck.’ is a high enough level of analysis of the topic for you, far be it from me to try too hard to disabuse the ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442/59 "2008-08-19T04:14:48Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] Of course you do. [Obama’s Women Reveal his Secret](http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/JB26Aa01.html) I’m not posting this because I agree with it, in fact I pissed off the author mightily in my disagreement. I’m just pointing out that some people who make arguments about these things do know the difference. [/QUOTE] I see nothing in that article to indicate that “Spengler” knows the difference between anything and anything else. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442/60 "2008-08-19T04:41:37Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] I see nothing in that article to indicate that “Spengler” knows the difference between anything and anything else. [/QUOTE] Of course not, you’re locked in the, ‘liberals are smart conservatives are stupid’, paradigm. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-believe-that-obama-is-a-communist/460442.md?page=4)