# Do people really not care about their leaders' comportment? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 10, 2017, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-not-care-about-their-leaders-comportment/776793 "2017-01-10T01:44:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-not-care-about-their-leaders-comportment/776793/41 "2017-01-10T21:01:28Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Pretty weak sauce. Doesn’t compare to vomiting on the Japanese PM…and I’m still holding up Bush the elder as a model of good behavior. > > (The two “saluting” incidents are bullshit, exploded and exploited by partisan political enemies. They don’t add up to anything meaningful whateverl. The CIC is not a military officer; he doesn’t have to salute at all. In fact, there were conservatives who got angry when Obama did salute properly.) Especially weak since George W Bush once saluted while holding a dog. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-not-care-about-their-leaders-comportment/776793/42 "2017-01-10T21:07:28Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > He’s blatantly bigoted, arrogant, psychopathically selfish, stupid, ignorant, amoral, jingoistic, dishonest, cruel, and many other bad qualities - all of which the Right considers virtues Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![Neo-Calredic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/96bed5/32.png) [@Neo-Calredic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neo-Calredic)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-not-care-about-their-leaders-comportment/776793/43 "2017-01-10T21:11:12Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > But anyway, yes, Trump is preferable IMHO to having a Democrat in office. Is he a klutz at times? Of course. Does he say things that make you wince? Often. Has his successful campaign for the Presidency made it possible for the Republicans to shape the agenda for the next generation or two, especially with a putative conservative majority on SCOTUS? Yes, yes and a thousand times yes. > > Be honest, wouldn’t you accept a klutzy Democratic President to achieve that? One who was so ignorant that he or she was willing to destabilize alliances that have helped keep the peace in Europe for 70 years, has bragged about committing sexual assault, ignores intelligence briefings, and is actively taking steps to make the possibility of a nuclear war more likely than it has been in generations? No. No decent person would consider that a worthy trade. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-not-care-about-their-leaders-comportment/776793/44 "2017-01-10T21:13:07Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Pretty weak sauce. Doesn’t compare to vomiting on the Japanese PM…and I’m still holding up Bush the elder as a model of good behavior. _Dios mio_, I’m defending a Bush. Trying to do your job while ill is not a bad thing. It’s not like former President Bush vomited on the Japanese PM on purpose, or because he was drunk. Secretary Clinton’s attending the 911 memorial when ill was also not a bad thing. Lying on easily checked facts, and then doubling down and never apologizing when called on it is embarrassing when it’s your 10 year old doing it. It’s cringe-inducing when your grandpa does it. It’s outright shameful when a presidential candidate does it. I can’t even think of the right word to describe what it’s going to be like when the President of the United States does it. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-not-care-about-their-leaders-comportment/776793/45 "2017-01-10T21:24:06Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > :dubious: > > I seem to recall a long list of embarrassing gaffes on his part. If your eyebrow is raised, it may be trying to escape your face before your brain forms a list of stupidities like your list of “gaffes”. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-not-care-about-their-leaders-comportment/776793/46 "2017-01-10T21:25:12Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > There’s no question, Obama comports himself a whole lot better than Trump, he’s far more personable, handsome, telegenic and I’m sure has better table manners. > > But all this is beside the point. I don’t agree with his policies. And while I’d much rather go out for a beer with Obama than with Trump I’d sooner have the latter for President, because his policies, or many of them, I do agree with. His “policies” are mainly “worship Trump and give him money”. And Trump’s behavior is of major practical concern; politics is about human interaction, how you act matters. And he greatly weakens the US’s international diplomatic position, even assuming that he doesn’t kick off multiple major wars and a global Depression. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-not-care-about-their-leaders-comportment/776793/47 "2017-01-10T21:25:17Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Which are the policies you agree with that you believe Trump actually supports? > A lot of Trump supporters seem to believe that Trump favors a particular policy because he said something at some point that seemed to indicate support for such a policy, ignoring other Trump statements or actions that indicated the contrary. That’s a fair question and deserves a serious answer. It is difficult to pin down Trump sometimes on where he is on a particular policy issue, which is why sites such as [PolitiPlatform](https://www.politiplatform.com/) are extremely helpful. If you look at [Trump’s policies](https://www.politiplatform.com/trump) there I’d be supportive of the great majority. There are issues on which I can’t go along with Trump, or at least some of his more zealous Cabinet members, eg Abortion. I’m in favor of a woman’s right to choose. And I’m hoping Trump will step back from any radical moves and rein in the religious right on this. Marijuana. Trump, as is shown on that site, has said that states should decide on marijuana legislation and the feds should stay out of it. I agree with that but some of the idiotic stuff from his colleagues about the evil of weed bugs me. There are a few other things that I part company with him on but they’re minor. On the whole if Trump stands by the statements detailed there then I’ll be quite happy. ---
**Author:** ![MindsEye\_Watering](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mindseye_watering/32/3619_2.png) [@MindsEye\_Watering](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MindsEye_Watering)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-not-care-about-their-leaders-comportment/776793/48 "2017-01-10T21:30:03Z")
> [@Helena330](#): > > He’s an embarrassment to the position of president and to our country. This. A thousand times this. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-not-care-about-their-leaders-comportment/776793/49 "2017-01-10T21:40:46Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > There are a few other things that I part company with him on but they’re minor. On the whole if Trump stands by the statements detailed there then I’ll be quite happy. :dubious: Defunding Planned Parenthood? Ending birthright citizenship? Halting Muslim immigration while ISIS exists, as well as suspending immigration altogether from unspecified “dangerous and volatile regions”? Imposing a 20% tax on all imported goods, a 35% import tax at the Mexican border, and a 45% tariff on all Chinese imports? Paying for major military expansion “by conducting a full audit of the Pentagon”? Do these seem like good and realistic goals to you? Most of that platform, like most of Trump’s campaign rhetoric, sounds like unworkable, self-contradictory hype pulled out of his ass to please voters without any clear idea of what the requirements and consequences of actually implementing it would be. ---
**Author:** ![MindsEye\_Watering](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mindseye_watering/32/3619_2.png) [@MindsEye\_Watering](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MindsEye_Watering)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-not-care-about-their-leaders-comportment/776793/50 "2017-01-10T21:45:54Z")
[Trump is a child](http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb377/MindsEyeWatering/Trump.jpg) and a pig. But that’s okay…so are his retarded fans. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-not-care-about-their-leaders-comportment/776793/51 "2017-01-10T22:06:36Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > If you look at [Trump’s policies](https://www.politiplatform.com/trump) there I’d be supportive of the great majority. There are issues on which I can’t go along with Trump, or at least some of his more zealous Cabinet members, eg > > Abortion. I’m in favor of a woman’s right to choose. And I’m hoping Trump will step back from any radical moves and rein in the religious right on this. I looked a the page you cited, does not say anything at all about reproductive rights, which leads me to believe that it will be more or less along republican lines, so this is a policy over which you will likely disagree. > [@](#): > > Marijuana. Trump, as is shown on that site, has said that states should decide on marijuana legislation and the feds should stay out of it. I agree with that but some of the idiotic stuff from his colleagues about the evil of weed bugs me. That one will be interesting. As his pick for AG is pretty anti-drug, I don’t know whose policies come out on top there. As my state has only very recently take up the medical aspect of marijuana, I don’t know how much I care, but there are quite a few others that will be quite effected. > [@](#): > > There are a few other things that I part company with him on but they’re minor. On the whole if Trump stands by the statements detailed there then I’ll be quite happy. Most of the statements are completely meaningless, like “Eliminate waste, fraud and abuse in Federal government spending”, okay, great, but how? What is waste to you may be vitally important to someone else. In any case, do you really think you can ever eliminate _all_ waste? There is often some waste laying around that can be dealt with as low hanging fruit. I think most of that has already been sucked up by the shenanigans of the last few years. We want to get rid of the “birthright” citizenship? That’s definitely a “I got mine jack” move. He wants to detain and deport _all_ illegal aliens. We discussed “Temporarily halt Muslim immigration as long as the threat of ISIS persists” in other threads, and determined that it is antithetical to everything it is to be American, even if it is technically not unconstitutional. (The jury was still out on that). “Place a 45% tariff on Chinese exports to the United States” That’s gonna help the economy. Suddenly, everything at wal-mart goes up by 45%. “Impose a 20% tax on all imported goods”, and “Impose a 35% import tax on Mexican border” once again, not really gonna help those struggling to make ends meet. “Eliminate the death tax”, I realize that this one is popular, but only because for some reason, people seem to think that it applies to greater than .02% of the population, and they think that it is actually punitive or something. It really is a terrible idea, and not one I would get behind. Anyway, I went through the list, and just grabbed the ones that happened to pop out at me. There are plenty others that I could disagree with, but then I’d be here all day. Why don’t you say what policies that are on that list that you actually agree with? Can you give some examples of ones you don’t, and why they are not a deal breaker for you? ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-not-care-about-their-leaders-comportment/776793/52 "2017-01-10T23:01:34Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Well, let’s see. Michelle Obama is black and a shameful whore and an embarrassment to the nation for wearing a sleeveless dress. Ms. Trump is a nude model and not a peep out of the peanut gallery. > > No, people don’t care unless it’s a democrat. > > And yes, I know the first lady isn’t the president, but it’s a package deal. You conveniently ignore that Michelle’s behavior happened in the present, while Melania’s behavior happened in the past, well before she became famous. But I’ve long since given up on expecting intellectual honesty from most liberals. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-not-care-about-their-leaders-comportment/776793/53 "2017-01-10T23:09:14Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > You conveniently ignore that Michelle’s behavior happened in the present, while Melania’s behavior happened in the past, well before she became famous. > > But I’ve long since given up on expecting intellectual honesty from most liberals. You want honesty? Melania is a golddigging former “escort” who sucks wrinkly old cock for money and status. Michelle Obama is a lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-not-care-about-their-leaders-comportment/776793/54 "2017-01-10T23:18:10Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > You conveniently ignore that Michelle’s behavior happened in the present, while Melania’s behavior happened in the past, well before she became famous. Yes, for shame, Michelle is still black. She really should have done something about that by now. Melania of course, was white before it was even known that she was going to be famous. And we all know that you only should be expected to behave well after you are famous, anything that happens before pretty much didn’t happen at all, right? > [@](#): > > But I’ve long since given up on expecting intellectual honesty from most liberals. And now I see why! ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2017, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-not-care-about-their-leaders-comportment/776793/55 "2017-01-11T00:47:55Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > If you look at [Trump’s policies](https://www.politiplatform.com/trump) there I’d be supportive of the great majority. …those aren’t policy positions. Those are mainly lists of quotes of things that Trump has said. Regarding marijuana: all we have is a quote of his opinion. That isn’t a stance of his administration. Here is his healthcare reform paper. [https://assets.donaldjtrump.com/HCReformPaper.pdf](https://assets.donaldjtrump.com/HCReformPaper.pdf) Nothing about marijuana there at all. I’d link to his stance on crime: but his administrations doesn’t fucking have one. [https://www.donaldjtrump.com/policies](https://www.donaldjtrump.com/policies) If you are supportive of his “policies”: then you are a fool. An absolute fool. That you have to use an independent third party to try and decipher where Trump and his administration stand on important issue says it all. There is literally nothing here. There is no plan. Just talking points. You support a buffoon that is going to drive your country over a cliff. You show no signs of critical thinking. You should be ashamed of yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2017, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-not-care-about-their-leaders-comportment/776793/56 "2017-01-11T00:54:51Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > You conveniently ignore that Michelle’s behavior happened in the present, while Melania’s behavior happened in the past, well before she became famous. Heh. 😉 Remember conservatives’ [massive tizzy about finding out The Truth concerning Obama’s college transcripts?](http://theweek.com/articles/473282/why-fringe-conservatives-are-obsessed-obamas-college-grades-4-theories) > [@](#): > > In a Tuesday [Aug. 2012] article in Glenn Beck’s The Blaze that circulated widely in conservative circles, Wayne Allyn Root — a conservative radio host and, by his own description, “one of the most accurate Las Vegas oddsmakers and prognosticators” — says his infallible “gut” tells him that Obama’s undergraduate transcript from Columbia University contains scandalous info “that threatens to bring down his presidency.” […] In May, conservative blogger Brooks Bayne offered $20,000 for Obama’s Columbia, Occidental College, and Harvard Law transcripts. Conservatives are happy to rake up potential political ammunition from decades in the past, as long as the person it might damage happens to be a liberal. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2017, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-not-care-about-their-leaders-comportment/776793/57 "2017-01-11T00:57:01Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Why don’t you say what policies that are on that list that you actually agree with? Because that would take an inordinate length of time which I just don’t have. Have you seen how many policies are on that list? I do agree though, some of those policy statements are so ridiculously general as to be meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![MindsEye\_Watering](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mindseye_watering/32/3619_2.png) [@MindsEye\_Watering](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MindsEye_Watering)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2017, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-not-care-about-their-leaders-comportment/776793/58 "2017-01-11T01:31:49Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > You support a buffoon that is going to drive your country over a cliff. You show no signs of critical thinking. You should be ashamed of yourself. Trump fans have no shame. Worse, they have no _ **honor** _. They are America’s _ **worst** _ Americans. ---
**Author:** ![MindsEye\_Watering](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mindseye_watering/32/3619_2.png) [@MindsEye\_Watering](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MindsEye_Watering)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2017, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-not-care-about-their-leaders-comportment/776793/59 "2017-01-11T03:10:27Z")
_That a government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth._ - Abraham Lincoln _The only thing we have to fear is fear itself_. - Franklin D. Roosevelt _Ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country_. - John F. Kennedy \* The long sweep of America has been defined by forward motion, a constant widening of our founding creed to embrace all, and not just some\*. - Obama **Grab 'em by the pussy! - Trump** ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2017, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-not-care-about-their-leaders-comportment/776793/60 "2017-01-11T03:30:34Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > You conveniently ignore that Michelle’s behavior happened in the present … > But I’ve long since given up on expecting intellectual honesty from most liberals. No, he’s conveniently pointing out that “Michelle’s behavior” isn’t in any way something that normal, non-psychopaths would consider even worth mentioning, much less make an issue out of. But be sure to keep lecturing _us_ on intellectual honesty. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-not-care-about-their-leaders-comportment/776793.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-not-care-about-their-leaders-comportment/776793.md?page=4)