# Do people really resort to barbarism once societies controls are removed? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 30, 2009, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-resort-to-barbarism-once-societies-controls-are-removed/498209 "2009-05-30T23:13:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-resort-to-barbarism-once-societies-controls-are-removed/498209/21 "2009-05-31T01:56:31Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > If you have a blowfish why not just poison his food? It depends on the opportunity that presents itself. If he is busy fighting, he won’t be eating, but I can still stick him with a blow dart. ---
**Author:** ![Covered\_In\_Bees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Covered\_In\_Bees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covered_In_Bees)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-resort-to-barbarism-once-societies-controls-are-removed/498209/22 "2009-05-31T02:03:49Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Fuck that. While you guys take him on 1 at a time I’m going to fashion a blowgun and find me a blowfish. Why not just wait until Bryan has killed all the others first _then_ use the tasty, but poisonous fish to off him? Or whoever was last standing. If you come into the middle of the fight with a weapon, of sorts, they’ll all just gang up on you. Also, for this advice, I suggest you spare me. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-resort-to-barbarism-once-societies-controls-are-removed/498209/23 "2009-05-31T02:25:53Z")
> [@Covered\_In\_Bees](#): > > Also, for this advice, I suggest you spare me. 🙂 I suspect that _ **nobody** _ is going to want eat anyone covered in bees . . . or start a fistfight with one, for that matter. You’d do well in this scenario. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-resort-to-barbarism-once-societies-controls-are-removed/498209/24 "2009-05-31T02:31:13Z")
> [@Covered\_In\_Bees](#): > > Why not just wait until Bryan has killed all the others first _then_ use the tasty, but poisonous fish to off him? Or whoever was last standing. > > If you come into the middle of the fight with a weapon, of sorts, they’ll all just gang up on you. > > Also, for this advice, I suggest you spare me. 🙂 Well who said it was specifically for Bryan? It would be for the winner. I’d probably secretly setup my own Utopia on the other side of the island of people who are just down with having orgies all the time. 😉 When the winner comes looking for us we’ll rush him and stick him with a dozen blowfish darts. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-resort-to-barbarism-once-societies-controls-are-removed/498209/25 "2009-05-31T02:53:52Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Well who said it was specifically for Bryan? It would be for the winner. > > I’d probably secretly setup my own Utopia on the other side of the island of people who are just down with having orgies all the time. 😉 When the winner comes looking for us we’ll rush him and stick him with a dozen blowfish darts. 😉 Unless the winner is **Covered\_In\_Bees!**. 😃 \*\*Covered\_In\_Bees! \*\* : “GO FORTH MY MINIONS !” \< _BZZZZZZZZZ_ \> ---
**Author:** ![Covered\_In\_Bees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Covered\_In\_Bees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covered_In_Bees)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-resort-to-barbarism-once-societies-controls-are-removed/498209/26 "2009-05-31T07:20:37Z")
'Bout time this “entourage” of mine starts making itself useful! 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-resort-to-barbarism-once-societies-controls-are-removed/498209/27 "2009-05-31T09:05:54Z")
> [@Covered\_In\_Bees](#): > > 'Bout time this “entourage” of mine starts making itself useful! 🆒 Well I hope that I can woo ‘Covered\_In\_Bees’ to my side otherwise all is lost for civilization in microcosm. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-resort-to-barbarism-once-societies-controls-are-removed/498209/28 "2009-05-31T21:43:29Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > It depends on the opportunity that presents itself. If he is busy fighting, he won’t be eating, but I can still stick him with a blow dart. A person can’t stay awake forever. At some point even the biggest badass has to trust other people. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-resort-to-barbarism-once-societies-controls-are-removed/498209/29 "2009-05-31T22:21:10Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > A person can’t stay awake forever. At some point even the biggest badass has to trust other people. True. 😉 And that will be when he goes down. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Rucksinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/898d66/32.png) [@Rucksinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rucksinator)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-resort-to-barbarism-once-societies-controls-are-removed/498209/30 "2009-06-01T04:43:47Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > …I’d probably secretly setup my own Utopia on the other side of the island of people who are just down with having orgies all the time. 😉 When the winner comes looking for us we’ll rush him and stick him with a dozen blowfish darts. 😉 The problem is (or would be) that your “Utopia” would probably consist of, at best, one female. > [@](#): > > \*\*The presence of only one woman, Kazuko Higa, caused great difficulty as well. \*\* Six of eleven deaths that occurred > among the holdouts were the result of violence. One man displayed > thirteen knife wounds. Ms. Higa would, from time to time, transfer her > affections between at least four of the men after each mysteriously > disappeared as a result of “being swallowed by the waves while fishing.” ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-resort-to-barbarism-once-societies-controls-are-removed/498209/31 "2009-06-01T05:25:46Z")
I spent a couple of years in Iraq over off and on over the period of 2003-2006. The Baghdad of 2003 was very different from the Baghdad of 2006, societal controls had been removed and every day was little worse and a little chaotic than the day before. Often, there would be an incident such as a bombing of one denomination’s mosque that would justify a reaction by the other side. In 2003, there was a lot of random crime and some bombings. When I left in 2006, there were almost daily bombings of population centers and roving bands of teenage Shii’a militias executing people in the street with power drills. You have no idea what kind of determination it takes to kill an old woman with a power drill, this isn’t just pushing a button or pulling a trigger. In my experience as a foreign aid worker who specializes in confict and post-conflict societies, any culture will eventually devolve into absolute chaos and barbarism given enough time. Some cultures will hold out longer than others, but ultimately I believe any of us could find ourselves on either end of a drill bit. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-resort-to-barbarism-once-societies-controls-are-removed/498209/32 "2009-06-01T11:15:36Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Well I hope that I can woo ‘Covered\_In\_Bees’ to my side otherwise all is lost for civilization in microcosm. 😉 Yeah, the usual Dope hive-mind wins out again. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-resort-to-barbarism-once-societies-controls-are-removed/498209/33 "2009-06-01T12:18:34Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I suspect that _ **nobody** _ is going to want eat anyone covered in bees . . . or start a fistfight with one, for that matter. Oh, I dunno - [this guy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Smeaton_(baggage_handler)) picked a fight with a man who was _on fire at the time_. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-resort-to-barbarism-once-societies-controls-are-removed/498209/34 "2009-06-01T12:43:12Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Oh, I dunno - [this guy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Smeaton_(baggage_handler)) picked a fight with a man who was _on fire at the time_. Yeah, but bees have range and onboard seeking capability. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-resort-to-barbarism-once-societies-controls-are-removed/498209/35 "2009-06-01T20:36:19Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > In my experience as a foreign aid worker who specializes in confict and post-conflict societies, any culture will eventually devolve into absolute chaos and barbarism given enough time. Some cultures will hold out longer than others, but ultimately I believe any of us could find ourselves on either end of a drill bit. Wait - does this apply to _any_ culture? Even ones with governments and stuff? I mean, there are some countries that have been chugging along in relative non-anarchy for hundreds or thousands of years. If they’re devolving into absolute chaos and barbarism, they’re not only taking their sweet time about it, but going about it in a rather roundabout way. And as for Doper Island, it depends on which forum the people are taken from. The MPSIMS mob might last a while, but the Pit people wouldn’t last a week. And the GD group wouldn’t last a day. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-resort-to-barbarism-once-societies-controls-are-removed/498209/36 "2009-06-01T20:44:16Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Oh, I dunno - [this guy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Smeaton_(baggage_handler)) picked a fight with a man who was _on fire at the time_. Hey, nobody said anything about there being Glaswegians on the Dope cannibal resort ! I want out, these guys are \*nutters \*! ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-resort-to-barbarism-once-societies-controls-are-removed/498209/37 "2009-06-01T22:05:00Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Dopers? Wearing each other’s skins. A more civilized group of people would probably do just fine. ROFL We’re Dopers. We’d be feeding on each other before the first morning was over, like packs of raptors 😃 ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-resort-to-barbarism-once-societies-controls-are-removed/498209/38 "2009-06-01T22:06:10Z")
Well…some of us would be the raptor pack, and some of us would be thresh. I know which group I’d rather be in. 😛 -XT ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-resort-to-barbarism-once-societies-controls-are-removed/498209/39 "2009-06-02T04:14:28Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Wait - does this apply to _any_ culture? Even ones with governments and stuff? I mean, there are some countries that have been chugging along in relative non-anarchy for hundreds or thousands of years. If they’re devolving into absolute chaos and barbarism, they’re not only taking their sweet time about it, but going about it in a rather roundabout way. > And as for Doper Island, it depends on which forum the people are taken from. The MPSIMS mob might last a while, but the Pit people wouldn’t last a week. And the GD group wouldn’t last a day. My point is that any culture that has societal constraints removed will devolve into barbarism. The US invasion removed the government of Iraq and didn’t replace it with a viable alternative and it became barbaric and chaotic. I firmly believe that this would be the case for any culture once societal contstraints are removed. If a foreign power toppled the US government, removed its leadership, disbanded its military and prevented the reconstitution of those entities, I believe you would see violence on the same scale as what we saw in Iraq in 2006. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-resort-to-barbarism-once-societies-controls-are-removed/498209/40 "2009-06-02T04:34:28Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > **Do people really resort to barbarism once societies controls are removed?** [Pretty much, yeah.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_blackout_of_1977) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-resort-to-barbarism-once-societies-controls-are-removed/498209.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-really-resort-to-barbarism-once-societies-controls-are-removed/498209.md?page=3)