# Do people who can't swim really drown quickly in calm water? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 13, 2009, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-who-cant-swim-really-drown-quickly-in-calm-water/496294 "2009-05-13T14:59:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-who-cant-swim-really-drown-quickly-in-calm-water/496294/41 "2009-05-14T15:08:36Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > I love swimming but I’ve always floated like a rock. Staying above water is an exhaustive exercise for me. I can do it but it tires me out quickly. > I’ve always admired people who can tread water so effortlessly. I can remain calm in calm water and tread water EXACTLY how it’s taught and my head will go under. To stay up I literally have to tread double-time. Almost like having to sprint to keep up with a jogger. This is interesting to me because I’ve never been able to swim under water, even when I was younger and not so blimp-like. I’ve always floated. I’ve actually fallen asleep floating on my back in a pool. I don’t think it’s possible for me to drown in calm water. I would die of hypothermia or get eaten by a shark first. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-who-cant-swim-really-drown-quickly-in-calm-water/496294/42 "2009-05-14T15:23:11Z")
Two of my cousins drowned in childhood. (Mom was one of seven kids, and dad one of four, so I have LOTS of cousins) I could have been a third, having wandered off as a toddler to be found near a large irrigation canal. As a result my parents made teaching me to swim a high priority…it also kept me out of trouble in the summers. When I got to high school, we did a swimming unit in gym class and out of 30 or so kids I was one of 3-4 that could swim without wasting energy holding my head completely out of the water and such, and the only one of those that wasn’t on the school swim team. I’m pretty sure that if you took that other 90% and threw them fully clothed (a big factor that I didn’t noticed mentioned yet) into water over their head more than a few of them would drown. In a speedo I can tread water indefinitely…about the same exertion as walking. In street clothes I wouldn’t want to find out, but I suspect I’d bonk after 10-15 minutes. In boy scouts we did the drill of pulling off my pants and inflating the legs, and you have to be pretty comfortable in the water to do that. Wet jeans don’t just slip off, and it is pretty easy to get them stuck around your ankles. I saw a couple of kids panic while trying it, and as mentioned upthread, once you panic things go to shit in a hurry. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-who-cant-swim-really-drown-quickly-in-calm-water/496294/43 "2009-05-14T15:32:18Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > What is odd is that she went to the bottom: I thought that the human body would normally float, and not sink. Eff science and “facts” – not everyone floats all the time in every conceivable condition. There was a recent thread about ability to float and swim. It turns out that floating for a lot of people is a hugely active process … much, much more than laying back and letting it happen. For one, you’re supposed to keep your lungs as inflated as possible. When people talk about floating, it’s rarely mentioned that if you exhale – and also if you don’t hold your legs and back just so – you could potentially sink rapidly. Not everyone experiences all this in the same way, so “easy floaters” wonder what’s up with people who don’t float well/easily. ---
**Author:** ![EmAnJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@EmAnJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmAnJ)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-who-cant-swim-really-drown-quickly-in-calm-water/496294/44 "2009-05-14T15:35:01Z")
Concur with the panic. My husband is a rescue diver on the FD and has told me that they are taught how to kick and push a panicking person away from them since they have a habit of trying to climb on top of you, therefore pushing you down. Though, to be honest, if they’re called out, it’s a recovery, not a rescue, so he’ll rarely face that situation. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-who-cant-swim-really-drown-quickly-in-calm-water/496294/45 "2009-05-14T15:36:00Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > To be honest, I love swimming and have trouble understanding people who refuse to learn to swim because they might drown … I just dont understand it ☹ [sidetrack] Non-swimmer here. It’s basic human fear … if you are afraid of anything at all, you should well understand fear of water/swimming. Lungs filled with water hurt like hell … severe pain is a great impetus for fear. [/sidetrack] ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-who-cant-swim-really-drown-quickly-in-calm-water/496294/46 "2009-05-14T15:36:29Z")
> [@Kevbo](#): > > I’m pretty sure that if you took that other 90% and threw them fully clothed (a big factor that I didn’t noticed mentioned yet) into water over their head more than a few of them would drown. In a speedo I can tread water indefinitely…about the same exertion as walking. In street clothes I wouldn’t want to find out, but I suspect I’d bonk after 10-15 minutes. In boy scouts we did the drill of pulling off my pants and inflating the legs, and you have to be pretty comfortable in the water to do that. Wet jeans don’t just slip off, and it is pretty easy to get them stuck around your ankles. I saw a couple of kids panic while trying it, and as mentioned upthread, once you panic things go to shit in a hurry. Unfortunately people who have not been trained in survival situations in the water won’t know to take their clothes off and I doubt it would occur to many people not so informed. I wonder if it’d even occur to them to lose their shoes. (This all assumes of course you have reason to believe you’ll be in the water for some time and shore or a boat are not very easily available.) Inflating your pants thing is a very helpful tool. You can even blow air into your shirt to help float you. Sadly the people most likely to drown are the ones who likely have never gotten such information because they can’t swim in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-who-cant-swim-really-drown-quickly-in-calm-water/496294/47 "2009-05-14T15:47:28Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > [sidetrack] > > Non-swimmer here. > > It’s basic human fear … if you are afraid of anything at all, you should well understand fear of water/swimming. > > Lungs filled with water hurt like hell … severe pain is a great impetus for fear. > > [/sidetrack] I have no doubt the fear is real and incapacitating. Thing is, as mentioned, swimming is a human instinct. Go to YouTube and search for babies swimming and you can see plenty of examples. We have an inbuilt diving reflex so babies just hold their breath as a matter of instinct. They even swim too (not very well but they naturally will propel themselves). They even seem to enjoy it. As adults we learn some fears. If you do not “know” how to swim and fall in the water your brain tells you that this is dangerous, you might die and you freak. A natural reaction and understandable to be sure. Thing is most drowning people (assuming they are conscious and not otherwise injured) are actually on the surface splashing about. They rapidly exhaust themselves doing this and then really drown. For some reason never occurs to them that they are floating and breathing and if they just chilled out a bit they could continue doing so a lot longer. I get that freaking out turns off such higher thinking but therein lies the rub. The panic is killing you. This is true in so many situations and the key to survival will be to master that, force yourself to chill out and assess the situation and do the best you can. You may still die but by far the better chance for survival lies down that road. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-who-cant-swim-really-drown-quickly-in-calm-water/496294/48 "2009-05-14T17:18:46Z")
Interesting topic. This is why the US navy doesn’t teach swimming to non-swimmers-they teach floating (i.e. 'drownproofing"). If you fall off a ship at sea, swimming will not save you-but calmly floating will. As others have said, it is the panic that dooms you. if you relax and float, you stand a good chance of being rescued. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-who-cant-swim-really-drown-quickly-in-calm-water/496294/49 "2009-05-14T17:23:55Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Our big brains get us into trouble here. So I had to be taught to swim, because for the longest time, my brilliance was getting in the way. [QUOTE=Rhodes] Besides panic, you can’t ignore sheer stupidity. [/QUOTE] I like the other guy’s explanation better. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-who-cant-swim-really-drown-quickly-in-calm-water/496294/50 "2009-05-14T17:30:33Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > So I had to be taught to swim, because for the longest time, my brilliance was getting in the way. Inasmuch as your “brilliance” was telling you to panic because you “know” you cannot swim and will likely die then yeah. If your brilliance is such that you overcome your panic and manage to float till someone rescues you then great. As I noted swimming is an instinct. Babies who have never been in water do it. Animals do it even if they have never been in the water before. If you mean swimming well and efficiently then yeah…that needs to be taught. For this I am more thinking keeping yourself afloat till rescue. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-who-cant-swim-really-drown-quickly-in-calm-water/496294/51 "2009-05-14T19:28:57Z")
> [@Hippy\_Hollow](#): > > Why is it odd that people don’t always know how to swim? I lived in Florida, near the water as a kid, so we were at the beach all the time. But living in the UK, the only place you’d ever swim was at the local baths. > > It’s not as if swimming is like walking. You can live a very full life and never go swimming. > > Swimming, or at least, the ability to comport oneself safely around water, and to stay calm in the water, takes a lot of exposure. I’m a little surprised that some folks are surprised that people just don’t calmly relax when they fall out of a boat, etc. I’m also one of those people who doesn’t float very well, despite having a silver swimming certificate and spending countless hours in the ocean and in pools… Eh? Born and bred in the UK, and like almost anyone I can think of who is similar I’m perfectly capable of swimming. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-who-cant-swim-really-drown-quickly-in-calm-water/496294/52 "2009-05-14T19:34:59Z")
If TV and movies have taught me anything, it’s that the proper way to rescue a panicked swimmer is to punch him in the face. Because nothing calms someone down more than getting punched in the face. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-who-cant-swim-really-drown-quickly-in-calm-water/496294/53 "2009-05-14T20:03:00Z")
Some of the posts on this thread have been a little harsh on those that can’t swim, IMO. They drown because they’re dumb and/or scaredy-cats. But it’s like with many other skills. I mean: surely there are skills that you guys lack that are fairly self-evident with a little practice. But you’ve simply never practiced. I myself can swim, but pretty badly. At school this was the reason, ironically, that I would often avoid swimming lessons: my recollection of the lessons was that everyone else could already swim and the “lesson” would be about doing lots of lengths. When for me, a single length was exhausting and embarrassing. And now, as an adult, opportunities to practice don’t come up very often. There are always hotties at my local pool: I don’t want to start experimenting with bouyancy / trying different swimming techniques because I may draw attention to my lack of swimming ability (Yeah, yeah “don’t be self-conscious” – easier said than done). Finally (this has been a much longer post than I anticipated…), it’s all very well saying that someone should be calm when falling into water, and realise they have bouyancy, but they have only seconds to get that right. And say if they try to tread water and momentarily bob under the water: they may think that they aren’t doing it right and then give up on the idea. And _then_ panic. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-who-cant-swim-really-drown-quickly-in-calm-water/496294/54 "2009-05-14T20:32:49Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Finally (this has been a much longer post than I anticipated…), it’s all very well saying that someone should be calm when falling into water, and realise they have bouyancy, but they have only seconds to get that right. > And say if they try to tread water and momentarily bob under the water: they may think that they aren’t doing it right and then give up on the idea. And _then_ panic. Panic is understandable and natural. We are all subject to it. I have had a few occasions for real panic while in the water so I get it (not kidding…panic was my initial response for a few seconds). The point is that panic that will kill you in the end. You _might_ drown anyway even if you do not panic but your chances of drowning increase substantially if you do panic. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-who-cant-swim-really-drown-quickly-in-calm-water/496294/55 "2009-05-14T21:01:04Z")
But panic, as an uncontrollable fear, is an acquired thing. Babies and young animals do not panic. They are not innately afraid of heigths, water or politicians. If they grow up familiar with these things they will not be afraid of them. But if they grow up for years with no contact with certain things then they may panic. I believe our living protected and predictable lives means we panic more easily. A few times I have been stuck in an elevator and had someone panic. I mean, come on, you are safer in a stuck elevator than walking in the street. ---
**Author:** ![Gotterfunken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/58956e/32.png) [@Gotterfunken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gotterfunken)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-who-cant-swim-really-drown-quickly-in-calm-water/496294/56 "2009-05-15T00:14:25Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Worse, that panic can kill someone trying to rescue the non-swimmer. People panicking this badly tend to grab onto their rescuer without thinking about things like “don’t trap their arms or they can’t swim, either” or " don’t continue to flail around when hanging onto the rescuer, or you’ll wear that person out." This is exactly what happened to the brother of Caspar David Friedrich (the German Romantic painter)–he tried to rescue Friedrich from drowning (when he was a young boy), but Friedrich in his panic pushed his brother underwater and drowned him. Friedrich felt guilty for his brother’s death for the rest of his life (a variation of survivor’s guilt, I suppose), and some scholars suggest this incident influenced the rather melancholy moods of his landscape paintings. > [@Skara\_Brae](#): > > GAHH! What’s wrong with his foot!?! What’s even more disturbing is that he seems to have a second head (or a third arm) growing out of his neck! ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-who-cant-swim-really-drown-quickly-in-calm-water/496294/57 "2009-05-15T02:30:34Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Thing is, as mentioned, swimming is a human instinct… We have an inbuilt diving reflex so babies just hold their breath as a matter of instinct. They even swim too (not very well but they naturally will propel themselves). They even seem to enjoy it. > As adults we learn some fears… It’s true that babies to some extent take naturally to swimming. It’s not true that you have to be an adult to get into trouble. Drowning is one of the most common causes of death among children. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-who-cant-swim-really-drown-quickly-in-calm-water/496294/58 "2009-05-15T02:39:27Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Worse, that panic can kill someone trying to rescue the non-swimmer. People panicking this badly tend to grab onto their rescuer without thinking about things like “don’t trap their arms or they can’t swim, either” or " don’t continue to flail around when hanging onto the rescuer, or you’ll wear that person out." Little tangent (but I was just reading a diving thread). I remember a very experienced diver recalling how in the great majority of air-sharing incidents he’d been involved in (almost none of which involved his dive-buddy), the person needing air would simply grab the regulator out of his mouth (rather than use the auxiliary / octopus), obviously putting their rescuer in serious danger. Based on his advice when I was getting my dive gear I set it up so my normal-use regulator is on an extra long yellow hose (for ease of the grabber) and the octopus is integrated into my inflator hose (since I’ll be the one who ends up using it). 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-who-cant-swim-really-drown-quickly-in-calm-water/496294/59 "2009-05-15T03:17:59Z")
> [@Apollyon](#): > > Little tangent (but I was just reading a diving thread). I remember a very experienced diver recalling how in the great majority of air-sharing incidents he’d been involved in (almost none of which involved his dive-buddy), the person needing air would simply grab the regulator out of his mouth (rather than use the auxiliary / octopus), obviously putting their rescuer in serious danger. > > Based on his advice when I was getting my dive gear I set it up so my normal-use regulator is on an extra long yellow hose (for ease of the grabber) and the octopus is integrated into my inflator hose (since I’ll be the one who ends up using it). 🙂 My dive instructor told a story of having a guy grab the regulator from him and clamped on to the instructor as well. The instructor quickly realized he was totally screwed so he inflated his BC and shot to the surface. I know…not good but the instructor of course exhaled all the way up. Once at the surface the panicked guy let go. The instructor immediately dove straight back to the bottom. Panicked guy apparently avoided an embolism somehow but got the bends for his stunt (which by all accounts I have read is very painful). The instructor, because he immediately went back down, was spared that particular agony. Maybe just a story he told to scare his students…I dunno. Sounded true when he said it though. ETA: This was all told during the training that when buddy breathing (no octopus, only one regulator) the diver with air still in the tank ALWAYS holds on to the regulator…even when the other person is breathing. The story illustrated that sometimes you do not see the panicked person rushing you and grabbing it out of your mouth. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-who-cant-swim-really-drown-quickly-in-calm-water/496294/60 "2009-05-15T03:26:47Z")
> [@Hippy\_Hollow](#): > > Why is it odd that people don’t always know how to swim? I lived in Florida, near the water as a kid, so we were at the beach all the time. But living in the UK, the only place you’d ever swim was at the local baths. > > It’s not as if swimming is like walking. You can live a very full life and never go swimming. > > Swimming, or at least, the ability to comport oneself safely around water, and to stay calm in the water, takes a lot of exposure. I’m a little surprised that some folks are surprised that people just don’t calmly relax when they fall out of a boat, etc. I’m also one of those people who doesn’t float very well, despite having a silver swimming certificate and spending countless hours in the ocean and in pools… I live in the UK, and only had the local swimming pools to learn in, but that’s enough. It’s fairly unusual to be a complete non-swimmer here. Of course, swimming pools aren’t actually the only place to swim here. We are an island. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-who-cant-swim-really-drown-quickly-in-calm-water/496294.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-people-who-cant-swim-really-drown-quickly-in-calm-water/496294.md?page=4)