# Do Poisonous Spiders Lurk Under Toilet Seats?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-poisonous-spiders-lurk-under-toilet-seats/161780
**Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports
**Created:** [March 16, 2003, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-poisonous-spiders-lurk-under-toilet-seats/161780 "2003-03-16T10:47:10Z")
**Posts on this page:** 10
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@chunda21](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chunda21)
#### Post date: [March 16, 2003, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-poisonous-spiders-lurk-under-toilet-seats/161780/1 "2003-03-16T10:47:10Z")
I really don’t know about the US, but Aussies using thunderdunnies (outhouses to Americans) should certainly check the seat first - that Aussie country classic about the “Redback on the Toilet Seat” is no urban myth. Redback spiders can’t kill anyone over the age of about 5, but they can certainly make you as crook as a dog. And they like to live near people, whose trash (and what they leave behind in the dunny) attracts insects which are the spider’s food source.
The Sydney Funnel Web is far more dangerous (in fact, the most venomous spider in the world - makes the Black Widow look like a teddy bear) but thankfully prefers to live in holes in the ground rather than on toliet seats, in mailboxes or gas meters (just a few places I have found and squashed redbacks).:eek:
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### Author:  [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)
#### Post date: [March 16, 2003, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-poisonous-spiders-lurk-under-toilet-seats/161780/2 "2003-03-16T13:24:52Z")
Link to [Do poisonous spiders lurk under toilet seats? 18-Mar-2003](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mspidertoilet.html)
> [@](#):
>
> _Originally posted by chunda21_
> **I really don’t know about the US, but Aussies using thunderdunnies (outhouses to Americans)**
I suspect that’s a piece of recently manufactured slang, or else a mistake on the part of the OP. “Dunny” and “Thunderbox” are 1970s slang for “toilet”.
> [@](#):
>
> _Originally posted by chunda21_
> \*\*…should certainly check the seat first - that Aussie country classic about the “Redback on the Toilet Seat” is no urban myth. Redback spiders can’t kill anyone over the age of about 5, but they can certainly make you as crook as a dog. And they like to live near people, whose trash (and what they leave behind in the dunny) attracts insects which are the spider’s food source. The Sydney Funnel Web is far more dangerous (in fact, the most venomous spider in the world - makes the Black Widow look like a teddy bear) but thankfully… \*\*
There’s general debate over what constitutes a species. One such debate concerns whether the Red Back _Latrodectus hasselti_ is in fact a different species to the Black Widow _Latrodectus mactans_ or the Katipo _Latrodectus katipo_.
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### Author:  [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)
#### Post date: [March 16, 2003, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-poisonous-spiders-lurk-under-toilet-seats/161780/3 "2003-03-16T13:33:09Z")
Just a slight correction, **Desmostylus** , in that the New Zealand katipo spider is actually two species, _Latrodectus katipo_ (true katipo) and _Latrodectus atritus_ (black katipo). Neither of which are likely to be hiding around the dunnies of our fair land, as their prefered habitat is among the driftwood and sedges. And they’re becoming rarer.
[Info from Te Papa museum.](http://www.tepapa.govt.nz/our_resources/Bugs/Spider_page/Katipo/katipo.html)
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### Author:  [@ASBEntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASBEntropy)
#### Post date: [March 18, 2003, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-poisonous-spiders-lurk-under-toilet-seats/161780/4 "2003-03-18T15:22:32Z")
I do not contest the staff answer to the spider story—well debunked! However, as the fellow from Australia said, spiders do love outhouses. They are warm, moist, and hattract insects for spider food. In areas where the black widow spider is found–mostly the southern part of the US, a very large proportion of the black widow spider bites that do occur (somewhere in the 90% range) happen in outhouses. So, just be careful where you go – so to speak. It is unlikely that a single black widow bite will kill you, but it will be most unpleasant.:eek:
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### Author:  [@rjk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjk)
#### Post date: [March 18, 2003, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-poisonous-spiders-lurk-under-toilet-seats/161780/5 "2003-03-18T15:34:34Z")
See! Leaving the seat up is a _good_ thing!
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### Author:  [@chunda21](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chunda21)
#### Post date: [March 18, 2003, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-poisonous-spiders-lurk-under-toilet-seats/161780/6 "2003-03-18T17:23:17Z")
In reply to Demostylus - "Thunderdunny"is a term I heard widely used in the 1970s and 80s when camping in Hill End, north of Bathurst, and actually refers specifically to the “long drop” style latrine. “Dunny” by itself is far older than 1970s (when they were being phased out) - I have seen in printed in books from the 1950s, and occasionally refer to periods prior to WWI. It stems from the Gaelic “Dun”, which means a “small fort in a meadow”. “Thunderbox” is one I haven’t heard.
Re the species issue; I was under the impression the redback, black widow and katipo are all members of the same genus (Latrodectus) - the second part of their scientific names refer to their specific species.
Just as an aside, can you really blame a spider for biting in that situation? I once heard John Williamson sing the song from the spider’s point of view. “There was a big bum on the toilet seat when I was there last night …” Frightening prospect, really. I mean, what’s the little fella supposed to do, put up an umbrella?
Just look before you sit!
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### Author:  [@thejk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thejk)
#### Post date: [March 19, 2003, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-poisonous-spiders-lurk-under-toilet-seats/161780/7 "2003-03-19T08:27:49Z")
Hey, Doug. You really should’ve given the original UC Riverside article due credit for the writing. You plgiarized it almost verbatim! Shame on you. It reflects terribly on this site when you “quote” without giving due credit. Really, what’s gotten into you?
[http://spiders.ucr.edu/debunk.html](http://spiders.ucr.edu/debunk.html)
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### Author:  [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)
#### Post date: [March 20, 2003, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-poisonous-spiders-lurk-under-toilet-seats/161780/8 "2003-03-20T00:49:15Z")
On the species issue:
[Spider Envenomations, Redback](http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/byname/spider-envenomations-redback.htm)
> [@](#):
>
> The taxonomy of this genus is not settled. For many years it was thought that most black widow spiders belonged to one species (Latrodectus mactans), with a further trinomial classification (ie, Latrodectus mactans hasselti).
>
> \
>
> Redbacks live throughout Australia but are most common where the natural environment has been disturbed, such as settled or urban areas. They appear to prefer drier habitats. Within natural forests, they are rare to absent, which suggests that they are not native to Australia. The first Australian specimens were collected at the seaports of Rockhampton and Bowen in 1870 (before this, more than 200 other species of spider had been found), adding strength to the supposition that the redback was a foreign spider to Australia and probably arrived by ship. Redbacks have been identified recently in New Zealand and Japan, probably arriving from Australia by ship.
> Envenomation by the redback appears to be identical to that by black widow spiders found around the world. It remains to be settled whether the redback is a distinct species that has evolved separately in Australia or whether it is a more recent descendant of a Latrodectus species that has arrived by ship with Australia’s European settlers.
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### Author:  [@jezzaOZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jezzaOZ)
#### Post date: [March 22, 2003, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-poisonous-spiders-lurk-under-toilet-seats/161780/9 "2003-03-22T12:32:14Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by chunda21 \*
> \*\* “Thunderbox” is one I haven’t heard.
> \*\*
There is a thunderbox in Evelyn Waugh’s novel about WWII, “Sword of Honour”. You can read about it at [Thunderbox](http://www.abbotshill.freeserve.co.uk/SH%20Chapter%202.htm)
It seems to have been around for some time.
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### Author:  [@Doug\_Yanega](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_Yanega)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2003, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-poisonous-spiders-lurk-under-toilet-seats/161780/10 "2003-03-24T02:49:37Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by thejk \*
> \*\*Hey, Doug. You really should’ve given the original UC Riverside article due credit for the writing. You plgiarized it almost verbatim! Shame on you. It reflects terribly on this site when you “quote” without giving due credit. Really, what’s gotten into you?
>
> [http://spiders.ucr.edu/debunk.html](http://spiders.ucr.edu/debunk.html) \*\*
Simple, really. Since I was involved in developing that UCR page, and had my friend Rick’s cooperation, I didn’t bother.