# Do postal workers really go postal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 20, 2001, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-postal-workers-really-go-postal/94376 "2001-11-20T12:45:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aegypt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@aegypt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aegypt)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-postal-workers-really-go-postal/94376/1 "2001-11-20T12:45:47Z")
The origin of the term “going postal” is the supposed penchant of U.S. postal workers for going crazy - due to work-related stress, one would assume. But do postal workers really go postal? Is there any study that indicates that postal workers really have worse mental health than, say, security guards, or is this just an urban legend? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-postal-workers-really-go-postal/94376/2 "2001-11-20T13:10:07Z")
The reason we have the term “going postal” is because postal workers have gone nuts, come into work, and started shooting. Of course there are non-postal workers who shoot up their workplaces, but in the 1980s and 1990s there seemed to be a spate of postal worker violence. Hence the term. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-postal-workers-really-go-postal/94376/3 "2001-11-20T13:13:40Z")
I cannot answer this question with any authority. But I do have my own personal opinions. My dad was a postal worker for many years. Yes, the stress was terrible. He confided in me sometimes, told me of the terrible things that supervisors said. He had to tell someone, but cautioned me, “Don’t tell your mother, she’ll just worry.” My dad died 2 weeks after being forced to retire. He was so unhappy with how he was treated. I sometimes say (not in total seriousness) that the Post Office killed my dad. No question that he was stressed out. I remember our family went to the Post Office after my dad’s death (they gave us some sort of certificate, or something) and the supervisors and bosses looked at us with a blend of fear and guilt, so it seemed. Like they were afraid we’d make a big scene. (We didn’t.) When the first big postal shootout happened (was it '86?) I remember my dad had me tape the news coverage (I had a VCR, he didn’t). There was something about that story that struck him. He was certainly upset by it, appalled by it, but something in his manner told me that he…I dunno…_wasn’t surprised_ by it. Like it was a natural manifestation of what he’d been seeing around him. I wonder if he had me tape the story because it was like it was validating that “yes, they are pushing people too hard, and see what can happen”. It was weird. I don’t know what my dad was thinking exactly, but I do remember being surprised by his reaction to the first “postal” incident. ---
**Author:** ![aegypt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@aegypt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aegypt)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-postal-workers-really-go-postal/94376/4 "2001-11-20T13:39:27Z")
That’s terrible. Did the authorities do anything to improve the lot of the postal workers, or is it still a terrible place to work? (Discounting the recent anthrax attacks, which, I suppose, must be stressful enough in themselves). Do we have any postal workers here on the boards? Does anybody have a link to an article about the postal shootings? ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-postal-workers-really-go-postal/94376/5 "2001-11-20T13:48:22Z")
It’s funny, I think that many postal workers are very proud of where they work (and they should be) and they love and are loyal to the Post Office. Despite the stress. My dad was very proud of being a postal worker. He would joke about it, make jabs at it, but all-in-all, he loved it. There was this particular shade of horrifed green he’d develop whenever we’d get anything shipped to us via UPS. As if it were blasphemy. I can’t speak for how the Post Office is now. My dad died a while ago. I hope it’s gotten better. I did see an interview with a rep for the Post Office on the news, regarding the anthrax thing. He was pretty pissed off, said that the employees weren’t told anything, weren’t warned, nothing. I’m sure other Doper postal workers will be by this thread soon, to tell you what it’s like now! ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-postal-workers-really-go-postal/94376/6 "2001-11-20T13:49:04Z")
Do you know why the price of postage stamps keeps rising? The high cost of ammunition. (With apologies to **Yosemitebabe** ’s dad.) ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-postal-workers-really-go-postal/94376/7 "2001-11-20T13:50:41Z")
No offense, Johnny LA! I have a bumper sticker on my car that says “Guns don’t kill people, postal workers do!” (I think my dad would have gotten a kick out of it. He had a real gallows humor.) ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-postal-workers-really-go-postal/94376/8 "2001-11-20T14:40:11Z")
IIRC, the reason it’s called “going postal” is because the first really bad instance of Joe Employee coming in to work and shooting up the place was a postal worker in Oklahoma, and that there were then a number of copycat postal worker shootings immediately afterwards, because that’s what always happens with this kind of thing, and so, thanks to the media, the verb “to go postal” entered the American English word stream. [http://www.cnn.com/US/9712/19/postal.shooting.11a/](http://www.cnn.com/US/9712/19/postal.shooting.11a/) > [@](#): > > The worst incident was in August 1986, when Patrick Henry Sherrill, a part-time letter carrier in Edmond, Oklahoma, killed 14 colleagues and himself. He had faced the possibility of being fired. At the time, the Better Half had been working as a letter carrier for three years, and he and all the other letter carriers were, like, “There but for the grace of God…” They knew EXACTLY where this guy was coming from, because they’d all had the same fantasies, at some point in their U.S. Postal Service careers. It’s an incredibly frustrating, sometimes infuriating job. Oh, it’s not the work itself, that’s a breeze. It’s dealing with Idiot Management that makes people like Sherrill go home and spend the evening cleaning their guns. And I recall quite distinctly that for at least a few months after this spate of postal worker shootings, local Idiot Management did make somewhat of an effort to be a little more tactful. Sort of. :rolleyes: [sub]But it’s difficult for a retarded rhinoceros to be tactful, you know? The skills just aren’t there…[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-postal-workers-really-go-postal/94376/9 "2001-11-20T15:25:54Z")
Not according to at least one study: > [@](#): > > “Going Postal” is a myth: postal workers are no more likely to physically assault, sexually harass or verbally abuse their coworkers than employees in the national workforce…postal workers are only a third as likely as those in the national workforce to be victims of homicide at work… From a [press release](http://www.casacolumbia.org/newsletter1457/newsletter_show.htm?doc_id=34000) on the report of the United States Postal Service Commission on A Safe and Secure Workplace at the National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse at Columbia University; the press release includes a link to the text of the report. ---
**Author:** ![stofsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dfb087/32.png) [@stofsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stofsky)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-postal-workers-really-go-postal/94376/10 "2001-11-20T16:36:53Z")
Slight hijack here: Pat Sherrill was my mailman. I was about 17 at the time, and saw all the fire engines and police cars driving past McDonald’s where I was working at the time. After I got off work, I went to visit my old English teacher who lived across the street from the post office. She said she thought some kids were setting off fireworks. There’s a statue and a fountain honoring the fallen postal workers in front of the post office now (or was, last I was in Edmond about 3 years ago) on Broadway. Freaked a lot of us out almost as bad as the Murrah Building bombing. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-postal-workers-really-go-postal/94376/11 "2001-11-20T16:43:52Z")
**MEBuckner** : Nevertheless, it _has_ happened and that is the origin of the phrase. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-postal-workers-really-go-postal/94376/12 "2001-11-20T17:03:14Z")
My source is the discovery channel so take that into consideration, whether that adds or detracts from the credibility of the argument. Studies were done using various types of jobs and the incidences of violence committed by those with those jobs. There was an overwhelming (and statistically significant) number of postal workers going “postal” than in any other profession studied. This was attributed to a couple of things. 1. A large percentage of the post office is comprised of vietnam vets who were offered these jobs when they returned from the war. Therefore, they had military training, many were suffereing from disturbances from the war, and many had become too used to the disciplined way of military life. Many became incredibly frustrated with the bureaucracy of the post office especially when taking into consideration that… 2. The post office has the worst ratio of grievance/response of any institution in the US, civil, or otherwise. At the time of the release of this documentary there were 250,000 grievances in the queue. 3. All things together it makes for one angry postal worker who also happens to be trained with weapons. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-postal-workers-really-go-postal/94376/13 "2001-11-20T18:06:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Johnny L.A. \* > **MEBuckner** : Nevertheless, it _has_ happened and that is the origin of the phrase. People have “gone postal” in the sense that postal workers have shot up their workplaces, yes. But non-postal workers have also shot up their workplaces, and postal workers are no more likely to “go postal” than non-postal workers (or at least, so says the study). If the [Mark Barton](http://www.cnn.com/US/9907/29/atlanta.shooting.01/index.html) case had happened first, we might say that a postal worker who flips out and shoots some of his co-workers has “gone day trader”. ---
**Author:** ![dragonlady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@dragonlady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dragonlady)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-postal-workers-really-go-postal/94376/14 "2001-11-20T18:09:46Z")
Postal worker checking in. Stress depends on which job you have in the office and which office you work in and which supervisor you have. There is a certain inherent stress involved in being pushed to process all mail every day regardless of volumne. In most offices carriers are required to process all mail every day, with no extra help on busy days. This time of year is particularly brutal, since we have a staggering amount of catalogs now, followed by literally hundreds of parcels in a few weeks. Most of the time the supervisors will resist calling in extra help, requiring many very long days and requiring you work straight through, no talking or leaving your assigned case. Can make the work day pretty unpleasant. Multiply this by 15 or 20 years and it adds up. Cases of people going postal always sadden me, but never surprise me. What surprises me is that very little is being done to improve the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Forbin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5e9695/32.png) [@Forbin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Forbin)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-postal-workers-really-go-postal/94376/15 "2001-11-20T19:12:37Z")
[hijack] What does it mean when they’re flying the flag at half mast at the Post Office? They’re hiring. 😃 [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-postal-workers-really-go-postal/94376/16 "2001-11-20T20:08:35Z")
“There is a certain inherent stress involved in being pushed to process all mail every day regardless of volumne. In most offices carriers are required to process all mail every day, with no extra help on busy days. This time of year is particularly brutal, since we have a staggering amount of catalogs now, followed by literally hundreds of parcels in a few weeks.” But there was also a “certain inherent stress” in the operation of the old Post Office Department in the 19th Century, when: 1. most messages, except for the most urgent by telegraph, traveled by mail because the telephone, fax, e-mail, UPS, FedEx, etc. didn’t exist; 2. much of the nation (the rural portions, small towns, etc.) bought much of their non-consumables by mail-order catalog; and 3. most of the mail traveled by railway post office, where the clerks had to have the mail sorted by the time the train reached its destination. Or WERE there instances of postal workers “going postal” in decades long past but we just don’t hear about it nowadays because of the natural tendency to think every societal problem is either new or at its absolute worst in the present? (That’s not a rhetorical question – I don’t know.) ---
**Author:** ![Swede\_Hollow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@Swede\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swede_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2001, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-postal-workers-really-go-postal/94376/17 "2001-11-21T01:55:03Z")
**KidCharlemagne** is right about there being an unusually high number of ex-military people working there. For years there were hiring freezes in effect and only veterans were allowed to apply. And war being what it is, many had trouble adjusting to civilian life. As far as the number of instances of going to work with a gun and taking out the staff the Post Office has had more instances than anyone else. BUT - - they are also one of the largest employers around, so percentage-wise they are still safer than many other places. [aside]Even with all of those Postal vehicles on the road, they have a lower accident rate than many smaller companies[/aside]. On the subject:[Going Postal](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/067977520X/qid=1006306840/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_10_1/002-6921185-9687204) by Scott Milzer. ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2001, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-postal-workers-really-go-postal/94376/18 "2001-11-21T02:21:46Z")
My understanding, FWIW, was that the people who are prone to “going postal” are not the letter carriers - rather, the people working overnight sorting out the mail. And that it is not the job itself that causes them to go postal, rather that the job tends to attracts anti-social loners who are more prone to suddenly snapping in a violent manner. Anyway, for a lighter look at a similar phenomenon, see [Twelve Customers Gunned Down in Convenience-Store Clerk’s Imagination](http://www.theonion.com/onion3619/twelve_customers.html) from The Onion ---
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2001, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-postal-workers-really-go-postal/94376/19 "2001-11-21T03:08:32Z")
I can’t really offer up any good revelations, but I certainly understand how the phrase “going postal” came to carry its connotation. While I’ve had some mail go astray, when I consider the magnitude, I think the USPS does a very good job. Something I ran across: [“EXPERTS” SEE A PATTERN AMONG MASS SHOOTERS](http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A99598-1993Dec10) (_my quotation marks_). ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2001, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-postal-workers-really-go-postal/94376/20 "2001-11-21T04:28:29Z")
John Bredin writes: \> But there was also a “certain inherent stress” in the \> operation of the old Post Office Department in the 19th \> Century, when: \> 1) most messages, except for the most urgent by \> telegraph, traveled by mail because the telephone, fax, e- \> mail, UPS, FedEx, etc. didn’t exist; \> 2) much of the nation (the rural portions, small towns, \> etc.) bought much of their non-consumables by mail-order \> catalog; and \> 3) most of the mail traveled by railway post office, \> where the clerks had to have the mail sorted by the time \> the train reached its destination. It was also less common in the 19th century than in the 20th century for people to own guns. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-postal-workers-really-go-postal/94376.md?page=2)