# Do Presidential Emergency Powers give the President the right to disarm the nation? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 8, 2016, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-presidential-emergency-powers-give-the-president-the-right-to-disarm-the-nation/759374 "2016-07-08T11:23:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2016, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-presidential-emergency-powers-give-the-president-the-right-to-disarm-the-nation/759374/21 "2016-07-09T05:01:26Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Came here specifically to mention Lincoln’s suspension of _habeas corpus_. The court ruled the suspension unconstitutional, but unless Congress was willing to impeach Lincoln if he didn’t comply, there was no way to enforce the decision. > > Who guards the guardians? Ultimately, the only check on the Presidency is Congress’s control of the purse strings and its willingness to impeach. Or given an out-and-out coup d’etat by the Executive Branch, the willingness of people to take up arms and fight. Which is why back in the late 18th century, people were a bit paranoid about the seizure of arms. Not a good analogy. The Constitutions explicitly allows the suspension of habeas corpus under certain circumstances: “The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.” It does not allow the suspension of the Bill or Rights. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2016, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-presidential-emergency-powers-give-the-president-the-right-to-disarm-the-nation/759374/22 "2016-07-09T05:20:04Z")
Only a republican president can do this. Signed A republican ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2016, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-presidential-emergency-powers-give-the-president-the-right-to-disarm-the-nation/759374/23 "2016-07-09T09:21:13Z")
> [@davidmich](#): > > Hi, > In the wake of so many mass shootings in the US in recent months, what can the President do with his emergency powers? The peace is threatened. If the President does have the power to act forcefully, would this violate the Second Amendment, and is this an obstruction to enforcing Emergency Powers? > I look forward to your feedback. > > [emergency powers | Wex | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/emergency_powers) > > Wex > ALL PAGESARTICLESESPAÑOLINBOX PROJECTSEARCHFAQ > Emergency Powers > The Constitution does not expressly grant the President additional war powers or other powers in times of national emergency. However, many scholars think that the Framers implied these powers because the structural design of the Executive Branch enables it to act faster than the Legislative Branch. Because the Constitution remains silent on the issue, the courts cannot grant the Executive Branch these powers when it tries to wield them. The courts will only recognize a right of the Executive Branch to use emergency powers if Congress has granted such powers to the President. … I think the question should be. Will Americans roll over and hand their weapons in? I believe the answer is no. to try and force them to do so could result in a blood bath. It is not always a question of creating laws, it is the practicality of enforcing them ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2016, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-presidential-emergency-powers-give-the-president-the-right-to-disarm-the-nation/759374/24 "2016-07-09T10:26:27Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > The first thing the President should do with his Executive Powers is to outlaw guns in Chicago. There have already been 1,400 shooting victims so far just this year. And some of them were [shot](http://www.bettergov.org/news/fatal-shootings-by-chicago-police-tops-among-biggest-us-cities) [by cops.](http://mappingpoliceviolence.org/unarmed/) Are you going to outlaw cop guns, too? ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2016, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-presidential-emergency-powers-give-the-president-the-right-to-disarm-the-nation/759374/25 "2016-07-09T11:22:32Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > And some of them were [shot](http://www.bettergov.org/news/fatal-shootings-by-chicago-police-tops-among-biggest-us-cities) [by cops.](http://mappingpoliceviolence.org/unarmed/) **Are you going to outlaw cop guns, too?** In answer to your question. The majority of police officers in the UK do not carry guns, if I have a tail light out I am pulled over for a conversation about what I intend to do to rectify the problem, I do not get threatened with deadly force, our armed police are called to deal with situations that warrant the use of firearms. Maybe the American police should follow the example of some European countries where the majority of policing is carried out by the police who keep guns in their holsters or work without firearms ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2016, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-presidential-emergency-powers-give-the-president-the-right-to-disarm-the-nation/759374/26 "2016-07-09T14:20:28Z")
The overwhelming majority of police work _is_ done with sidearms in holsters. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2016, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-presidential-emergency-powers-give-the-president-the-right-to-disarm-the-nation/759374/27 "2016-07-09T14:32:29Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > In answer to your question. The majority of police officers in the UK do not carry guns, if I have a tail light out I am pulled over for a conversation about what I intend to do to rectify the problem, I do not get threatened with deadly force, our armed police are called to deal with situations that warrant the use of firearms. Maybe the American police should follow the example of some European countries where the majority of policing is carried out by the police who keep guns in their holsters or work without firearms Yes, but you live in a country where your murder rate per year is less than a 1000 for all types (i.e. knives, guns, etc etc). Our murder rate for knives alone is higher than your entire rate, let alone guns. It’s apples to oranges, and you are really in no position to dictate or even suggest what police our police SHOULD be following based on your situation when it’s so different than ours. Basically there are over a million police in the US (to put it in perspective, we have a police force that’s larger than half a percent of your total population in the UK), and they make millions of traffic stops and other things every day. Of those millions, occasionally something goes wrong. And, since we are a 24/7 news shop who is also under the worlds microscope those very few incidents get blasted out into the news. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2016, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-presidential-emergency-powers-give-the-president-the-right-to-disarm-the-nation/759374/28 "2016-07-09T14:35:01Z")
Sure, he’s the president. He can sign any executive order he wants. Whether such order is executed is another question. The courts would almost certainly strike it down unless this were some extraordinary circumstance such as Martians invading and saying they will exterminate us if we don’t give up all our firearms. But, as already noted, the presidential power has initiative. There’s nothing stopping Obama from doing it other than his reluctance to commit political suicide and cause mass panic/insurrection. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2016, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-presidential-emergency-powers-give-the-president-the-right-to-disarm-the-nation/759374/29 "2016-07-09T15:03:07Z")
**davidmich** , \*your own OP quote \*contains the following: > [@](#): > > The courts will only recognize a right of the Executive Branch to use emergency powers if Congress has granted such powers to the President. So it would seem POTUS can’t just pull an “emergency” out of his hat to do anything he damn well wants (well, OK, strictly speaking he “can” but as mentioned it would almost certainly fail if he doesn’t have a damned good explanation why it should be so) (and BTW really one gets tired of the consistent harping of alternating fringes about how _ **whoever’s** _ the sitting President is just feverishly chomping at the bit to go Bonaparte/Caesar on the Republic…) > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Not a good analogy. The Constitutions explicitly allows the suspension of habeas corpus under certain circumstances: > > “The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.” > > It does not allow the suspension of the Bill or Rights. Also, what happened was that as soon as the way that Lincoln exerted his authority was ruled out of bounds by the courts, _the Congress itself_ passed the [Habeas Corpus Suspension Act of 1863](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habeas_Corpus_Suspension_Act_1863) to provide a legal way around it. So what was decided was that in order to declare suspension of habeas corpus in such a manner, you needed an Act of Congress. By analogy one could theorize that any similar suspension of an explicit constitutional right that is not narrowly case-specific would also require an Act of Congress (unfortunately for the Japanese-Americans, the society and culture of 1942 considered racial minorities a fair game specific case for discriminatory treatment anyway). The US Constitution, contrary to say the French 5th Republic’s, does leave the specifics of emergency powers as something implicit, to be addressed by statute and interpretation and tradition – and if asked about it the Judiciary will answer “the court does not address hypotheticals, bring it to us when someone IS harmed”. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2016, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-presidential-emergency-powers-give-the-president-the-right-to-disarm-the-nation/759374/30 "2016-07-10T00:20:20Z")
\*Hi, In the wake of so much scandalous and violent rhetoric against police officers in the US in recent months, what can the President do with his emergency powers? The peace is threatened. If the President does have the power to act forcefully to restrict this rhetoric, would it violate the First Amendment?\* Yes. Though I could see President Trump attempting to do such a thing.\* \*we’ve already seen Attorney General Lynch promise [to prosecute](http://www.dailywire.com/news/1593/loretta-lynch-vows-prosecute-those-who-use-anti-james-barrett) those who engage in anti-Muslim rhetoric that “edges toward violence” (though she retreated in the face of protest). ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2016, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-presidential-emergency-powers-give-the-president-the-right-to-disarm-the-nation/759374/31 "2016-07-10T00:29:42Z")
> [@Giraffes\_Can\_t\_Dance](#): > > … > > "Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest.” > -Mohandas Gandhi That quote is wildly taken out of context by contemporary gun rights advocates. To say that it means that Gandhi would support Second Amendment rights in the US is an extreme oversimplification on his views that overlooks the historical context behind the original quote. [This article](http://wagingnonviolence.org/feature/what-gandhi-really-thought-about-guns/) provides some of the missing context. It’s an interesting read. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2016, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-presidential-emergency-powers-give-the-president-the-right-to-disarm-the-nation/759374/32 "2016-07-11T17:25:17Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > In answer to your question. The majority of police officers in the UK do not carry guns, if I have a tail light out I am pulled over for a conversation about what I intend to do to rectify the problem, I do not get threatened with deadly force, our armed police are called to deal with situations that warrant the use of firearms. Maybe the American police should follow the example of some European countries where the majority of policing is carried out by the police who keep guns in their holsters or work without firearms I have been pulled over probably 50 times in the past 40 years and 1 000 000 miles of driving, and never once did I ever worry about being shot by the cop … for everything from speeding to tail light or headlight out, random inspection because I did something silly/stupid while driving and even once because I was driving a car that matched one that was just used as an escape vehicle by a bank robbery. > [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > No, he’d do what thousands of gun owners did ca. 2008: manage to “lose” their entire collection in a fishing accident. We saved all the melted/burnt/ruined weapons [knife, sword and firearms] in our fire, if we are ever forced to turn over weapons, those will be the ones turned over. We do not have any officially registered weapons [name associated with serial number] in our possession. The 2 we did have were damaged beyond repair in the fire and claimed on our insurance and the state notified of the loss. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > So if there were a constitutional amendment that would take away your right to own guns, you would just hand them over? See above answer, but the response would be ‘technically yes’ but realistically no. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2016, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-presidential-emergency-powers-give-the-president-the-right-to-disarm-the-nation/759374/33 "2016-07-11T18:01:14Z")
> [@XT](#): > > If someone steals my car and uses it to help rob a bank, should I be responsible for that as well? What if they steal it, get drunk and run over a bunch of kids and nuns carrying puppies to an orphanage? Are you proposing that we should all be responsible for every item we own that might be stolen and used in an illegal manner…or just guns because you don’t like guns? Ask me when a three year old gets drunk, takes mom’s car for a joy ride and kills somebody. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2016, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-presidential-emergency-powers-give-the-president-the-right-to-disarm-the-nation/759374/34 "2016-07-11T18:33:41Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Ask me when a three year old gets drunk, takes mom’s car for a joy ride and kills somebody. And then you’ll answer the questions without a non-sequitur strawman? Ok…guess we’ll await your answer for that low probability event then. Thanks for playing… 😛 ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2016, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-presidential-emergency-powers-give-the-president-the-right-to-disarm-the-nation/759374/35 "2016-07-11T20:56:43Z")
> [@Giraffes\_Can\_t\_Dance](#): > > "Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest.” > > -Mohandas Gandhi For the record, this was not Gandhi calling for armed Indians to resist the Raj, but just the opposite: [the quote was in an appeal for Indians to fight _as part of the British Empire against His Majesty’s enemies_.](http://wagingnonviolence.org/feature/what-gandhi-really-thought-about-guns/) ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2016, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-presidential-emergency-powers-give-the-president-the-right-to-disarm-the-nation/759374/36 "2016-07-12T01:30:19Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > In answer to your question. The majority of police officers in the UK do not carry guns, if I have a tail light out I am pulled over for a conversation about what I intend to do to rectify the problem, I do not get threatened with deadly force, our armed police are called to deal with situations that warrant the use of firearms. Maybe the American police should follow the example of some European countries where the majority of policing is carried out by the police who keep guns in their holsters or work without firearms This is ridiculous, you’ve been watching far too much TV if you think American police regularly threaten people with firearms for routine traffic violations. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2016, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-presidential-emergency-powers-give-the-president-the-right-to-disarm-the-nation/759374/37 "2016-07-12T01:37:05Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Sure, he’s the president. He can sign any executive order he wants. > > Whether such order is executed is another question. The courts would almost certainly strike it down unless this were some extraordinary circumstance such as Martians invading and saying they will exterminate us if we don’t give up all our firearms. > > But, as already noted, the presidential power has initiative. There’s nothing stopping Obama from doing it other than his reluctance to commit political suicide and cause mass panic/insurrection. Well to be fair people were disarmed by the police after Katrina although the action was declared unconstitutional. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2016, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-presidential-emergency-powers-give-the-president-the-right-to-disarm-the-nation/759374/38 "2016-07-12T16:33:06Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > This is ridiculous, you’ve been watching far too much TV if you think American police regularly threaten people with firearms for routine traffic violations. You might have noticed quite a few videos over the past few years of cops stopping people for routine violations and suddenly opening fire on them. Every few weeks there’s another incident where the cops shoot somebody for vague reasons. Yes, it’s big country with 300 million people. But this sort of thing didn’t just start happening, it’s been going on for centuries, the only difference is that nowadays the cops are getting recorded. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-presidential-emergency-powers-give-the-president-the-right-to-disarm-the-nation/759374.md?page=1)