# Do priests hearing confession have an obligation to report serious crimes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 21, 2009, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-priests-hearing-confession-have-an-obligation-to-report-serious-crimes/514555 "2009-10-21T01:23:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-priests-hearing-confession-have-an-obligation-to-report-serious-crimes/514555/21 "2009-10-21T14:10:46Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > The priest could “say the sin but not the sinner,” depending on who you ask, but a priest who wasn’t wrong in the head would start by encouraging the confessed murderer to talk to the police thereby saving an innocent man’s life (plus in many jurisdictions, spontaenous confession leads to lower penalties). > > The priest definitely could not call the cops and say “Jack Smith down at the bridge just came and told me he’d killed Joe Slowpoke.” He could, depending on who you ask and which hairs they feel like splitting, call the cops and say “someone just confessed to me the murder of Joe Slowppoke, I realize you already have a man in custody but you may need to look harder; sorry I can’t give you better information.” And supposing Joe Slowpoke had about 5 mins before the switch was thrown when the priest received the confession. JS gets offed and the cops say"oops we boobed on this one, sorry Mrs Slowpoke" Cold comfort to JS and his family doncha think? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-priests-hearing-confession-have-an-obligation-to-report-serious-crimes/514555/22 "2009-10-21T14:19:05Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > I grew up as Catholic and I always assumed that in some cases the priest would recognize the person’s voice during confession. What I learned in Catholic school was that the priest could only try to convince the person to turn himself in. Confessions are not necessarily done in that kind of “secrecy”, which is more to help the self-conscious. Mine are all face-to-face, which is both disconcerting but more emotional. ---
**Author:** ![Picard\_Kills\_Kirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/dec6dc/32.png) [@Picard\_Kills\_Kirk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Picard_Kills_Kirk)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-priests-hearing-confession-have-an-obligation-to-report-serious-crimes/514555/23 "2009-10-21T14:20:20Z")
deleted. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-priests-hearing-confession-have-an-obligation-to-report-serious-crimes/514555/24 "2009-10-21T14:28:36Z")
> [@chowder](#): > > And supposing Joe Slowpoke had about 5 mins before the switch was thrown when the priest received the confession. > > JS gets offed and the cops say"oops we boobed on this one, sorry Mrs Slowpoke" > > Cold comfort to JS and his family doncha think? Then what the priest has to do is tell the repentant “let’s warn them now, while we can still save Joe’s life!” He could with the repentant’s permission phone with the warning himself, but again he can’t just drop the confession mid-listening and call 911. He can’t detain the repentant and he can’t tell the cops who was it (again, generally he is to recommend to the repentant that he give himself in, but not always, depending on things like the laws of the land - if giving himself in is equivalent to suicide-by-cop, the priest wouldn’t be as obligated to recommend it as if the guy is likely to get time). For a while ETA used priests to call in bomb warnings (as in, they’d call a priest and tell him “we’ve placed a bomb at such and such place”). Nice fellas… not. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-priests-hearing-confession-have-an-obligation-to-report-serious-crimes/514555/25 "2009-10-21T14:36:19Z")
\*\*Picard Kills Kirk, \*\*the murder sins aren’t yet committed and would therefore be beyond the scope of the confession. Are there sins that a priest can’t abolve? Like the ones where the sinner is effectively saying, “I’m gonna do this heinous deed and then confess it so I don’t have to burn?” ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-priests-hearing-confession-have-an-obligation-to-report-serious-crimes/514555/26 "2009-10-21T14:44:32Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > \*\*Picard Kills Kirk, \*\*the murder sins aren’t yet committed and would therefore be beyond the scope of the confession. > > Are there sins that a priest can’t abolve? Like the ones where the sinner is effectively saying, “I’m gonna do this heinous deed and then confess it so I don’t have to burn?” Absolution doesn’t work that way. One needs to be sincere and while a priest can be tricked, God can’t. So unless the sinner really, really meant it when he repented he’d still burn in Hell even if the priest absolvled him. ---
**Author:** ![Picard\_Kills\_Kirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/dec6dc/32.png) [@Picard\_Kills\_Kirk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Picard_Kills_Kirk)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-priests-hearing-confession-have-an-obligation-to-report-serious-crimes/514555/27 "2009-10-21T15:13:20Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > \*\*Picard Kills Kirk, \*\*the murder sins aren’t yet committed and would therefore be beyond the scope of the confession. Let’s say I’m a new Catholic, and I don’t quite understand how it works. I have a man in the trunk of my car, and he’s bleeding to death because I shot him. I go inside, and confess to a priest that I shot a man, and I have no intention of getting medical help for him. Before leaving I tell the priest I am going to drive in circles around Kroger until he dies so I can put the body in the trash can. Whether I am sincerely apologetic or not, the priest now knows the details of what I have done, and there is a man about to die in the trunk of my car. Obviously, if the priest attempted to get help for this man it would without doubt identify me as the shooter (and the priest realizes this). Is there anything the priest can do? Since I haven’t actually committed the murder sin, do the confidentiality agreements still apply? ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-priests-hearing-confession-have-an-obligation-to-report-serious-crimes/514555/28 "2009-10-21T15:22:15Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Your guess is wrong. > > The sacramental seal is absolute. That’s astonishing. I still have doubts though. Very well, the seal is absolute. Priests, however, are humans, to whom absolutes rarely if ever apply. My hope is that humanity would sometimes win out in extremities, where human life is at stake, and the priest would find just a tiny bit of wiggle room. I can’t imagine damnation for such an act. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-priests-hearing-confession-have-an-obligation-to-report-serious-crimes/514555/29 "2009-10-21T15:30:15Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > For those thinking that the priest is morally culpable for covering up a crime, he has one out: he can refuse absolution unless the criminal makes appropriate restitution for his crime, which might include confession to the police. But he may not himself say one word that might point to the criminality of the person whose confession he has heard – nor may he be forced to do so. Word. The (Catholic) priest doesn’t HAVE to absolve your sins…requiring you to make effort yourself like Polycarp has pointed out. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-priests-hearing-confession-have-an-obligation-to-report-serious-crimes/514555/30 "2009-10-21T15:33:25Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > The priest cannot say anything, he cannot even hint at the identity nor can he withhold absolution to a person who is repentant or tie it to a later action. Also, since most confessions are anomymous and one does not have to reveal details of the sin it’d be very difficult for a priest to actually know much. You only have to mention kind and quantity and not go to more detail than necessary, “father, I killed one guy”, the only judgment call is if the person is truly repentant. Serious? I may be wrong in my previous post. I was under the impression (having been brought up Catholic and knowing several priests) that they could do that… ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-priests-hearing-confession-have-an-obligation-to-report-serious-crimes/514555/31 "2009-10-21T15:47:42Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > That’s astonishing. I still have doubts though. Very well, the seal is absolute. Priests, however, are humans, to whom absolutes rarely if ever apply. My hope is that humanity would sometimes win out in extremities, where human life is at stake, and the priest would find just a tiny bit of wiggle room. I can’t imagine damnation for such an act. You’re thinking of this in human terms. In the philosophy of the religion, we’re here to experience Earth for a relatively brief time, then it’s on to bigger and better thingsin the afterlife. Humanity has to sort itself out if this is to be a spiritually healthy place, but ultimately the real goal is attainable only when you die. A win for humanity is trivial compared to a win for God. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-priests-hearing-confession-have-an-obligation-to-report-serious-crimes/514555/32 "2009-10-21T15:53:03Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > Serious? I may be wrong in my previous post. I was under the impression (having been brought up Catholic and knowing several priests) that they could do that… The Code of Canon Law provides: > [@](#): > > Can. 978 ß1 In hearing confessions the priest is to remember that he is at once both judge and healer, and that he is constituted by God as a minister of both divine justice and divine mercy, so that he may contribute to the honor of God and the salvation of souls. > . > . > . > Can. 980 If the confessor is in no doubt about the penitent’s disposition and the penitent asks for absolution, it is not to be denied or delayed. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-priests-hearing-confession-have-an-obligation-to-report-serious-crimes/514555/33 "2009-10-21T16:44:21Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The Code of Canon Law provides: My grandmother, when she taught my Confirmation class, used an example of someone who embezzled money. The priest may tell them that if they truly were repentant that they would turn themselves in. Part of being sorry means that you are willing to pay for your crimes. So I’m assuming if the murderer refused to turn himself In then the priest can refuse to absolve him. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-priests-hearing-confession-have-an-obligation-to-report-serious-crimes/514555/34 "2009-10-21T16:45:55Z")
So, we’ve established that it’s against the rules of the church for the priest to say anything, and we’ve established that it’s against the rules of the state to force the priest to say anything, but I still have a question: If the priest decides to break the rules of the church, can his testimony be used in court? What if the testimony of the priest is not about the confession, per se, but about something he observed during the confession? ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-priests-hearing-confession-have-an-obligation-to-report-serious-crimes/514555/35 "2009-10-21T17:02:07Z")
Is it not surprising that a secular State should afford religion (and primarily Roman Catholicism) such a privilege? According to Wikipedia none of the other rules of confidentiality (doctors, lawyers, etc) are absolute, in certain circumstances, quite sensibly, the law can enforce compliance. Why should priests be any different? Yes, the confessional is sacred, but it isn’t sacred to the State and surely the State should only go so far in taking religious sensibilities into account. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-priests-hearing-confession-have-an-obligation-to-report-serious-crimes/514555/36 "2009-10-21T17:12:23Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Is it not surprising that a secular State should afford religion (and primarily Roman Catholicism) such a privilege? According to Wikipedia none of the other rules of confidentiality (doctors, lawyers, etc) are absolute, in certain circumstances, quite sensibly, the law can enforce compliance. Why should priests be any different? Yes, the confessional is sacred, but it isn’t sacred to the State and surely the State should only go so far in taking religious sensibilities into account. The law can verify a doctor/patient or attorney/client relationship. There’s no paperwork involved in the confessional. ---
**Author:** ![Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tastes_of_chocolate/32/3232_2.png) [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tastes_of_Chocolate)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-priests-hearing-confession-have-an-obligation-to-report-serious-crimes/514555/37 "2009-10-21T17:16:57Z")
Say someone were to confess that they ARE going to do someone. They can not be talked out of it by the confessor. They haven’t yet sinned or committed a crime. But they are also not truly confessing, since they obviously don’t have any intentions of repenting. In that case, is the confession truly a confession? It sounds more like bragging. Can a priest make the call as to if a confession is truly a confession, or does someone asking to confess make that an automatic thing? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-priests-hearing-confession-have-an-obligation-to-report-serious-crimes/514555/38 "2009-10-21T17:31:18Z")
> [@](#): > > In that case, is the confession truly a confession? It sounds more like bragging. > Can a priest make the call as to if a confession is truly a confession, or does someone asking to confess make that an automatic thing? The rules of Confession are pretty strict as well. Just wanting does not make it so. It doesn’t have to be a special place or method, but the sinner does have to make certain efforts and allowances, and a priest need not to accept a flawed confession (that is, where the sinner fails to show remorse mostly). ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-priests-hearing-confession-have-an-obligation-to-report-serious-crimes/514555/39 "2009-10-21T17:52:27Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Your guess is wrong. > > The sacramental seal is absolute. Is it? It’s not a confession per se (action hasn’t taken place), and the priest calling up Rome to say, “better tighten up security this weekend, someone confessed to wanting to kill Johnny Ratz today” doesn’t exactly reveal any information about the confessor, does it? ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-priests-hearing-confession-have-an-obligation-to-report-serious-crimes/514555/40 "2009-10-21T18:46:55Z")
> [@](#): > > Can. 980 If the confessor is in no doubt about the penitent’s disposition and the penitent asks for absolution, it is not to be denied or delayed. If I’m reading this correctly…if the priest IS is doubt he can deny or delay…? This fits with my first understanding. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-priests-hearing-confession-have-an-obligation-to-report-serious-crimes/514555.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-priests-hearing-confession-have-an-obligation-to-report-serious-crimes/514555.md?page=3)