# Do private/Catholic schools take state money? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 27, 2009, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-private-catholic-schools-take-state-money/497866 "2009-05-27T23:50:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SanDiegoTim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85e7bf/32.png) [@SanDiegoTim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanDiegoTim)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2009, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-private-catholic-schools-take-state-money/497866/1 "2009-05-27T23:50:55Z")
I was under the impression that private/Catholic schools don’t take public money. However, I’m told some schools may do so. Is this true? If so, how would I find out if a particular school does so? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2009, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-private-catholic-schools-take-state-money/497866/2 "2009-05-27T23:52:23Z")
Ask. ---
**Author:** ![SanDiegoTim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85e7bf/32.png) [@SanDiegoTim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanDiegoTim)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2009, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-private-catholic-schools-take-state-money/497866/3 "2009-05-27T23:58:26Z")
I would except I don’t want anyone at the school to know of my inquiry. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-private-catholic-schools-take-state-money/497866/4 "2009-05-28T00:13:18Z")
> [@SanDiegoTim](#): > > I was under the impression that private/Catholic schools don’t take public money. However, I’m told some schools may do so. Is this true? If so, how would I find out if a particular school does so? Told by whom? And I agree that the only way to find out is to ask. If they take public money, the should have to tell you. You could ask anonymously. ---
**Author:** ![fisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@fisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fisha)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-private-catholic-schools-take-state-money/497866/5 "2009-05-28T00:23:35Z")
Many take public money for certain things. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-private-catholic-schools-take-state-money/497866/6 "2009-05-28T00:39:11Z")
I don’t know how much things have changed since I was in Catholic school, but I remember that students were eligible for public assistance in several areas: Free/reduced price school lunches Special education services Title 1 reading programs and I’m sure a few other things, as well. Of course all of these programs were directed toward individual students who met certain criteria, not to the general operation of the school, or to its general education programs. And none of the programs had anything to do with the teaching of religion (for example, Title 1 reading materials were strictly secular.) But if you want any more details, you’re going to have to ask. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-private-catholic-schools-take-state-money/497866/7 "2009-05-28T02:20:16Z")
In principle, Catholic schools have no objection to taking public money (unless it comes with conditions attached which they find unacceptable). The problem is not the school’s, but the state’s; there may be legal issues involved in the state funding religious institutions. In the US, there is an obvious constitutional issue. You’re entitled to know how your tax money is spent, so you should ask if your are interested. But I wouldn’t ask the school; I don’t see that they are obliged to tell you, any more than I would be obliged to tell you that I was receiving, say, unemployment benefits, or how much I was receiving. In addition, they could have confidcntiality issues if they were receiving payments, e.g., in respect of particular disadvantaged pupils. It’s the people who _spend_ public money who have an obligation to account to you for it, not the people who receive it. And they usually have established mechanisms for doing exactly that. So you’ll probably learn more by asking them. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-private-catholic-schools-take-state-money/497866/8 "2009-05-28T02:31:52Z")
I remember way back in the 70s/80s when I was attending a Catholic grade school, the remedial teachers (remedial reading, remedial math, also speech therapists, etc) would come in what amounted to a big, tricked-out Winnebago that they’d park in the driveway beside the school because they were paid with public money and couldn’t actually provide services inside the school. (I had speech therapy and let me tell you, that goddamn RV was COOL!!!) ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-private-catholic-schools-take-state-money/497866/9 "2009-05-28T02:49:13Z")
And here’s a memo from the U.S. Department of Education detailing how public school districts are supposed to coordinate with private schools to provide [special education funding](http://dese.mo.gov/divspeced/PDF/OSEPprivateschools.pdf). It doesn’t say anything about religious schools, but it doesn’t specifically exclude them, either. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-private-catholic-schools-take-state-money/497866/10 "2009-05-28T03:31:59Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I remember way back in the 70s/80s when I was attending a Catholic grade school, the remedial teachers (remedial reading, remedial math, also speech therapists, etc) would come in what amounted to a big, tricked-out Winnebago that they’d park in the driveway beside the school because they were paid with public money and couldn’t actually provide services inside the school. > > (I had speech therapy and let me tell you, that goddamn RV was COOL!!!) Hey -I remember the vans- I went to “Math Van” in 2nd grade! Dude! ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-private-catholic-schools-take-state-money/497866/11 "2009-05-28T06:27:36Z")
I went to Catholic school. We also had “the trailer” outside for speech therapy, special education classes, the school psychologist, and whoever else came by. In our case it was permanently parked there, but was not considered part of the school building. Kids who attended the gifted program simply went to the local public school one day a week and were excused from our school for that day. Most of our textbooks were provided by our local [Intermediate Unit,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermediate_Unit) and were clearly marked as being Property of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. These were the same titles as would be available for public schools. The one exception was our religion books, for obvious reasons. In grade school these were workbooks, and we were supposed to bring in $3.25 or whatever it was in September each year to buy our own. In high school we used textbooks and these had been bought by the school. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-private-catholic-schools-take-state-money/497866/12 "2009-05-28T13:15:31Z")
No money is giving for education. Poor kids may have their lunch qualify for support from the government. I can’t comment on handicapped children funding. ---
**Author:** ![justrob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9adbd/32.png) [@justrob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justrob)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-private-catholic-schools-take-state-money/497866/13 "2009-05-28T15:41:48Z")
> [@Harmonious\_Discord](#): > > No money is giving for education. In Milwaukee there certainly is. > **[Milwaukee's lessons on school vouchers](https://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0523/p01s03-usgn.html)** > > For Destiny Hatcher, private school has made all the difference.Once a failing student who often got in trouble, she's now getting good There are people on both sides of the issue. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-private-catholic-schools-take-state-money/497866/14 "2009-05-28T16:34:01Z")
I realise this question is a US-centric one, but there are publicly funded “separate school systems”, usually Catholic schools, in Canada. This is a result of the negotiations that occured at the time of confederation. Education is a provincial matter, and I’m not familiar with the situation in most provinces, but it is definitely still the case in Ontario that the Catholic system is publicly funded, amid a fair bit of controversy. Only Catholic schools are funded - Islamic, Jewish or other faith-based schools are not eligible for funding, which has led to Human Rights claims. The UN has even condemned Canada and Ontario over this issue. This is the relevant [Wiki article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separate_school). IIRC, the current Ontario govenment (or the same group in their previous term) did consider making funding available to non-Catholic religious schools, but I don’t recall more about it other than some very racist and offensive letters to the editor of the newspaper I used to read! Québec had religious based school systems until 1998, when they switched to language-based systems. My understanding is that private schools are another system entirely in these provinces, and in Québec at least, they can kind of do whatever they want; they are often used as a legal loophole around the language laws to allow kids to eventually go to public English schools, when they otherwise would be legally required to go to school in French. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-private-catholic-schools-take-state-money/497866/15 "2009-05-28T17:32:08Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > Education is a provincial matter, and I’m not familiar with the situation in most provinces, but it is definitely still the case in Ontario that the Catholic system is publicly funded, amid a fair bit of controversy. I believe part of the problem in Ontario is that the Catholic school system partly acts as a _de facto_ French-language separate school system. Under a single school system, the current Catholic schools boards could lose some independence. > [@](#): > > My understanding is that private schools are another system entirely in these provinces, and in Québec at least, they can kind of do whatever they want Quebec (authorized) private schools are subsidized up to 60% by the government. (Until a few years ago, some religious schools were subsidized up to 100%, until it became known and caused a controversy.) The government cannot really cut this funding, since it would result in a movement of students toward the public school system, and it would ironically _increase_ the costs for the government. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-private-catholic-schools-take-state-money/497866/16 "2009-05-28T18:15:23Z")
> [@justrob](#): > > In Milwaukee there certainly is. > > [Milwaukee's lessons on school vouchers - CSMonitor.com](http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0523/p01s03-usgn.html) > > There are people on both sides of the issue. I believe Milwaukee has a special system just for their school district. I think the state had to get permission from the feds to do this. I don’t care about the debate on should they or shouldn’t they receive state funding, and will not comment on it. For my city they get what I said, and that’s how it was decades ago when I went to school also. ---
**Author:** ![justrob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9adbd/32.png) [@justrob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justrob)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-private-catholic-schools-take-state-money/497866/17 "2009-05-28T19:11:03Z")
> [@Harmonious\_Discord](#): > > I believe Milwaukee has a special system just for their school district. I think the state had to get permission from the feds to do this. I don’t care about the debate on should they or shouldn’t they receive state funding, and will not comment on it. For my city they get what I said, and that’s how it was decades ago when I went to school also. I’m pretty sure you’re right about the special system. I wasn’t trying to start a debate, you’ll notice that I didn’t post my opinion on whether they should or shouldn’t receive funding. Just that there were people on both sides. I posted this in response to your statement “No money is giving for education.” It seemed like a pretty far sweeping statement and I just wanted to point out that in someplaces private/Catholic schools do indeed take state money. Decades ago it was the same in Milwaukee but now it’s different. ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2009, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-private-catholic-schools-take-state-money/497866/18 "2009-05-29T01:01:12Z")
Based on my 9 years on my local school board, you bet your bippy a lot of public tax money goes to private schools in NJ. They get locally-provided bus service and textbooks, for starters. They also get some services that are technically provided to individuals, such as speech therapy, but of course that relieves the private school from having to pay for it. And yes, they either transport the students to the public school for this service, or they have a bus in the parking lot. All funded by local tax money, together with state aid. It was decent chunk of our public school budget, as I recall. And, of course, the private schools are free to reject any child who has emotional problems or special needs of any kind. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2009, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-private-catholic-schools-take-state-money/497866/19 "2009-05-29T15:57:51Z")
Are you asking about the school vouchers system? [School vouchers](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_voucher) Some school districts (usually under-performing ones) allow vouchers, some don’t. StG ---
**Author:** ![justrob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9adbd/32.png) [@justrob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justrob)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2009, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-private-catholic-schools-take-state-money/497866/20 "2009-05-29T16:35:59Z")
> [@StGermain](#): > > Are you asking about the school vouchers system? [School vouchers](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_voucher) > > Some school districts (usually under-performing ones) allow vouchers, some don’t. > > StG Yes, I am talking about School Vouchers. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-private-catholic-schools-take-state-money/497866.md?page=2)