# Do probiotics really work? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 7, 2009, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-probiotics-really-work/492286 "2009-04-07T18:52:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-probiotics-really-work/492286/41 "2009-04-09T02:09:02Z")
> [@jakesteele](#): > > Moral of the story: just because something doesn’t compute on your computer doesn’t necessarily mean it ain’t real. Get out there and do some footwork and discover for yourself. No, but if something fails to compute on 4,000 peoples’ computers, it ain’t real. ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-probiotics-really-work/492286/42 "2009-04-09T04:37:30Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > [http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?\_ob=ArticleURL&\_udi=B6T27-3V2N10N-V&\_user=10&\_rdoc=1&\_fmt=&\_orig=search&\_sort=d&view=c&\_acct=C000050221&\_version=1&\_urlVersion=0&\_userid=10&md5=9467d37a0e97ba82c639e35e5cdb82e0](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T27-3V2N10N-V&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=9467d37a0e97ba82c639e35e5cdb82e0) > _"Thus, extracts of Echinacea purpurea and Panax ginseng enhance cellular immune function of PBMC both from normal individuals and patients with depressed cellular immunity._" > > [http://archfami.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/7/6/541](http://archfami.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/7/6/541) > "Conclusion In this study a prophylactic effect of the investigated echinacea extracts could not be shown. However, based on the results of this and 2 other studies, one could speculate that there might be an effect of echinacea products in the order of magnitude of 10% to 20% relative risk reduction. Future studies with much larger sample sizes would be needed to prove this effect. " > > [http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf990677%2B](http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf990677%2B) > > [http://annals.highwire.org/cgi/content/abstract/136/1/42](http://annals.highwire.org/cgi/content/abstract/136/1/42) > > [http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?\_ob=ArticleURL&\_udi=B6T7P-3SK95BJ-2&\_user=10&\_rdoc=1&\_fmt=&\_orig=search&\_sort=d&view=c&\_acct=C000050221&\_version=1&\_urlVersion=0&\_userid=10&md5=8348c1999ff5afe0af70db5490e4ec3a](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T7P-3SK95BJ-2&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=8348c1999ff5afe0af70db5490e4ec3a) > _"These results demonstrate the immune stimulatory ability of the unpurified fresh pressed juice of Echinacea purpurea and offer some insight into the nature of the resulting immune response as compared to endotoxin._" Sorry, I should have no said no _legitimate_ clinical study. Half of those studies admit that no significant results were found. From your own cites: > [@](#): > > Echinacea may be helpful in the treatment or prevention of upper respiratory tract infections, but trial data are not fully convincing. > [@](#): > > In this study a prophylactic effect of the investigated echinacea extracts could not be shown. However, based on the results of this and 2 other studies, one could speculate that there might be an effect of echinacea products in the order of magnitude of 10% to 20% relative risk reduction. Future studies with much larger sample sizes would be needed to prove this effect. Oh, there _might_ be a 10% to 20% reduction, even though it couldn’t be shown? Another is merely claiming it has anti-oxidant properties and stops free radicals…that it may do, but the jury is still out on whether anti-oxidants really are as awesome as believed, and if you can even get all the anti-oxidents these foods/extracts claim to have by eating them. And the two that claimed to have good results were _in vitro_ studies, so big whoop-dee-do. You can’t do an _in vitro_ study and then just turn around and claim it will work exactly as it did like that in the human body. Hey, guess what, I can cure HIV infections in an _in vitro_ experiment if I wanted to, so I guess I should become a millionaire for making the cure to HIV/AIDS? ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-probiotics-really-work/492286/43 "2009-04-09T04:45:19Z")
> [@jakesteele](#): > > I’ve been doing this for years along with ginseng and have literally not gotten sick for 30 yrs. or more unless I don’t take it or am late taking is at the first signs in others. So you’re saying I’ve been mood making all of these years, innocently self-deceiving myself, right? I’ve never really heard the term “mood-making,” before, but I take it to mean some sort of “mind over matter” type of thing? Then no, that is not what I am saying at all, though I will agree with you that you are self-deceiving yourself to a degree. Confirmation bias is when you (usually unconsciously) remember when something worked in your favor (you took the herb and didn’t get sick,) and ignore/explain away the times it didn’t (oh, I didn’t take the herb _soon enough_, so I got sick.) There’s a reason every single herbal supplement has the disclaimer “This claims have not been evaluated by the FDA. The product is not intended to treat, cure, or prevent any disease.” It’s because they know they can’t do shit, and if they ever did TRY to get approval from the FDA to say they can legitimately cure or prevent a cold, they would get a big letter back saying “your studies didn’t prove a damn thing, keep that disclaimer on there.” But hey, if you want to waste your money on useless things, be my guest. No skin off my back. ---
**Author:** ![jakesteele](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ed8c4c/32.png) [@jakesteele](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jakesteele)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-probiotics-really-work/492286/44 "2009-04-09T09:04:55Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > No, but if something fails to compute on 4,000 peoples’ computers, it ain’t real. That would depend on what type of datat was inputed, who inputed it, why did they input it and how much or how little did they input. ---
**Author:** ![jakesteele](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ed8c4c/32.png) [@jakesteele](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jakesteele)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-probiotics-really-work/492286/45 "2009-04-09T09:40:26Z")
> [@bouv](#): > > I’ve never really heard the term “mood-making,” before, but I take it to mean some sort of “mind over matter” type of thing? Then no, that is not what I am saying at all, though I will agree with you that you are self-deceiving yourself to a degree. > > Confirmation bias is when you (usually unconsciously) remember when something worked in your favor (you took the herb and didn’t get sick,) and ignore/explain away the times it didn’t (oh, I didn’t take the herb _soon enough_, so I got sick.) > > There’s a reason every single herbal supplement has the disclaimer “This claims have not been evaluated by the FDA. The product is not intended to treat, cure, or prevent any disease.” It’s because they know they can’t do shit, and if they ever did TRY to get approval from the FDA to say they can legitimately cure or prevent a cold, they would get a big letter back saying “your studies didn’t prove a damn thing, keep that disclaimer on there.” > > But hey, if you want to waste your money on useless things, be my guest. No skin off my back. If it ever gets to the point of ‘skin off your back’ let me know, I’ll send you an herbal recipe for an herbal poultice that will fix you right up. 😃 Here’s another part of that story that pertains to the point I am making. One time I got really bad from too much booze, cigs, aspirin, coffee etc. and went to an internal med guy. He scoped me and said my stomack looked like a Viet Nam battle field after a mortar attack. He said he wasn’t going to mess around, he was going to give me what he called ‘the atomic bomb’ of ulcer medication…Prilosec (before it was OTC). He said he could only prescribe it for 60 days because it caused tumors in lab rats.:eek: I told him I was also going to take my CC, aloe, and some new stuff called DGL(licorice root extract) which helps heal ulcers and coat the stomach lining to make it stronger. The doctor rolls his eyes in his head and says, “If you was the placebo effect, fine, it won’t hurt you.” So anyway, I get off the Prilosec in 7 days due to the effectivness of the herbal regime and don’t go see the guy until another two years have gone by. Guess what he adviced me to do? Have you guessed yet? Well, I’ll tell you. The pompus fuck had the audacity to tell me this: “Well, Mr. Houston, us Internal Med guys have been recommending to our patients that they take this marvelous compound called DGL, it’s a licorice root extract that heals, sooths and coats the stomach lining.” When I heard him say this, my jaw dropped and I ripped into him telling him how I had told him that two yrs. previously and he had condescendingly poo hooed me and because I had taught him something that he now used as a standard protocol, without crediting the source, I was going to charge him exactly what this office visit cost as my teaching fee for him was. I walked out of the office, never looked back and never received a bill. To the best of my knowledge, DGL has not been approved by the FDA. Neither has cannabis for glaucoma or chemotherapy. An herb is nothing but a plant with medicinal qualities. The cigs/coffee some people on this site consume daily are herbs that have very powerful mind altering, mood changing effects and have not been approved by the FDA but they work. People of yore didn’t just walk around the country side grabbing random bushes, leaves, twigs and bark and say, “Me take this for tummy, Me take this for hemroids.” There was a reason they took what they took for the reason they took it. It was the best they had to work with until modern science came on the scene. > **[Deglycyrrhizinated licorice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dgl)** > > Deglycyrrhizinated licorice is a herbal supplement typically used in the treatment of gastric and duodenal ulcers. It is made from licorice from which the glycyrrhizin has been removed. > Glycyrrhizin is known to cause undesirable side effects, such as hypertension and edema, and is consequently removed from DGL. > According to the US National Institutes of Health's National Center for Complementary and Integrative Health "Some products that contain licorice root and other ingredients may help reli... ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-probiotics-really-work/492286/46 "2009-04-09T11:58:19Z")
Moderator Note: Since we’re in General Questions, I think this one has gone as far, if not farther, than possible. If anyone wishes to open another thread debating points raised, feel free. Closed. **samclem** Moderator, General Questions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-probiotics-really-work/492286.md?page=2)