# Do regular people today enjoy a better life than the great rulers of the past? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 15, 2006, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-regular-people-today-enjoy-a-better-life-than-the-great-rulers-of-the-past/372822 "2006-09-15T12:46:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![The\_Controvert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@The\_Controvert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Controvert)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2006, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-regular-people-today-enjoy-a-better-life-than-the-great-rulers-of-the-past/372822/1 "2006-09-15T12:46:57Z")
Let’s compare an average American middle-class person with a great sultan or pharoah. Food: Pharoahs got the best chefs, top ingredients, and rare delicacies. But 2000 years ago, fresh grapes were a luxury item. Advantage: regular person today. Clothing: A king might don precious gems and finery. Average people today can adorn themselves with diamonds and fine clothing. Transportation: A car sure beats riding a horse or getting a bunch of slaves to carry you around. Communications: Anyone can pick up a phone… sure is faster than sending a messenger. Safety: Great rulers of the past amassed large armies and built huge fortresses to secure their safety from their fellow man. The average Joe today doesn’t have to worry much about that, thanks to police and military. Sex: A mighty Sultan can afford a harem of lovelies to fend off lonely nights. Thanks to the availability of strip clubs, porn, and the Internet, the modern citizen can safely find gratification for even the most perverse itch. (without turning into Caligula) Are there any counter examples? ---
**Author:** ![Nature\_s\_Call](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nature_s_call/32/19006_2.png) [@Nature\_s\_Call](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nature_s_Call)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2006, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-regular-people-today-enjoy-a-better-life-than-the-great-rulers-of-the-past/372822/2 "2006-09-15T13:02:46Z")
Me: Boss does something that makes my life a living hell, I grumble, mutter under my breath, then punch in the next day anyways. Pharaoh: “Off with his head” Advantage: Pharaoh. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2006, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-regular-people-today-enjoy-a-better-life-than-the-great-rulers-of-the-past/372822/3 "2006-09-15T13:06:03Z")
Dad used to bring this point up to us kids when he was in an expansive mood, I guess. His example was one (TR, WW?) US president’s kid who got a blister on his heel playing tennis during the (last) turn of the century. It became infected, and eventually he died, despite having access to the best medical care available. “No amount of money could have saved that kid… etc”) One thing I have noticed about 19th century contemporary accounts of everyday living was just how easy it was to die by going outside in a quick rainstorm without a shawl or eating a bowl of cherries, or getting “chilled”, it usually portended tragedy. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2006, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-regular-people-today-enjoy-a-better-life-than-the-great-rulers-of-the-past/372822/4 "2006-09-15T13:06:46Z")
Better medicine for the average joe (if in a civilised country) than for the Pharaoh, therefore, better life expectancy. But the whole power issue… it does sound appealing 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2006, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-regular-people-today-enjoy-a-better-life-than-the-great-rulers-of-the-past/372822/5 "2006-09-15T13:15:24Z")
I don’t see my horde of willing, nubile concubines. Yet. Chalk one up for Ye Kings of Olde. ---
**Author:** ![Stalky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@Stalky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stalky)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2006, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-regular-people-today-enjoy-a-better-life-than-the-great-rulers-of-the-past/372822/6 "2006-09-15T13:21:36Z")
Entertainment/video games/access to information, movies ect. VS. Well, when he wasn’t driving around in his chariot he must’ve been bored. Advantage ME, by miles ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2006, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-regular-people-today-enjoy-a-better-life-than-the-great-rulers-of-the-past/372822/7 "2006-09-15T13:26:35Z")
Privacy. The concept of privacy hardly existed till the late 19th century. Kings and queens, especially, couldn’t dress or use the toilet or eat without a retinue. Advantage: us. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2006, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-regular-people-today-enjoy-a-better-life-than-the-great-rulers-of-the-past/372822/8 "2006-09-15T13:28:07Z")
The mightiest Roman emperor couldn’t buy a bottle of aspirin or a book of matches–or a shot of Novacaine when getting a tooth pulled. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2006, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-regular-people-today-enjoy-a-better-life-than-the-great-rulers-of-the-past/372822/9 "2006-09-15T13:29:30Z")
Not only the privacy to use the toilet, but the damned toilet itself! I’m a big fan of indoor plumbing. Also, as someone who wear corrective lenses and regularly takes asthma medication, I often reflect on how it would have sucked in previous ages, going about squinting and wheezing. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2006, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-regular-people-today-enjoy-a-better-life-than-the-great-rulers-of-the-past/372822/10 "2006-09-15T13:32:26Z")
[QUOTE=Eve] Privacy. The concept of privacy hardly existed till the late 19th century. Kings and queens, especially, couldn’t dress or use the toilet or eat without a retinue. [/QUOTE] I really don’t buy this. You’re saying Elizabeth I or Augustus Caesar couldn’t take a shit without people watching? Somehow I think the Queen was allowed to tell people to let her crap in peace. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2006, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-regular-people-today-enjoy-a-better-life-than-the-great-rulers-of-the-past/372822/11 "2006-09-15T13:41:57Z")
Looks like Henry VIII didn’t get much privacy… > **[Groom of the Stool](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groom_of_the_stool)** > > The Groom of the Stool (formally styled: "Groom of the King's Close Stool") was the most intimate of an English monarch's courtiers, responsible for assisting the king in excretion and hygiene. > The physical intimacy of the role naturally led to his becoming a man in whom much confidence was placed by his royal master and with whom many royal secrets were shared as a matter of course. This secret information—while it would never have been revealed, for it would have led to the discredit of his ... ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2006, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-regular-people-today-enjoy-a-better-life-than-the-great-rulers-of-the-past/372822/12 "2006-09-15T14:05:38Z")
I recall once that when visiting the 15th-century Rosenborg Palace (in Copenhagen, Denmark), the whole palace had ONE flush toilet 9it was in the basement). Obviously, the king didn’t walk down to the basement when he had the need-but, imagine, the King had a flush toilet. Everybody has one today! ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2006, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-regular-people-today-enjoy-a-better-life-than-the-great-rulers-of-the-past/372822/13 "2006-09-15T14:18:33Z")
[QUOTE=Dinsdale] Not only the privacy to use the toilet, but the damned toilet itself! I’m a big fan of indoor plumbing. [/QUOTE] I don’t have a cite but I think some degree of indoor plumbing did exist as far back as 2000 BC. ---
**Author:** ![ignoramus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c6cbf5/32.png) [@ignoramus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ignoramus)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2006, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-regular-people-today-enjoy-a-better-life-than-the-great-rulers-of-the-past/372822/14 "2006-09-15T14:20:51Z")
My family/jealous underling are unlikely to murder me for my position (I mean if they _really_ want my job that badly they’re welcome to it). Plus I do so enjoy showering every day & not having gout… ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2006, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-regular-people-today-enjoy-a-better-life-than-the-great-rulers-of-the-past/372822/15 "2006-09-15T14:27:02Z")
[QUOTE=FriarTed] I don’t have a cite but I think some degree of indoor plumbing did exist as far back as 2000 BC. [/QUOTE] Yeah - and I suppose trepanning was some degree of brain surgery significantly before that. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2006, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-regular-people-today-enjoy-a-better-life-than-the-great-rulers-of-the-past/372822/16 "2006-09-15T14:29:11Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] I really don’t buy this. You’re saying Elizabeth I or Augustus Caesar couldn’t take a shit without people watching? Somehow I think the Queen was allowed to tell people to let her crap in peace. [/QUOTE] Why would she want to? Seriously-- if you’ve eliminated in front of people your entire life, you woldn’t suddenly develop an urge for privacy. Bathroom privacy is a relatively modern invention. Ever see those outhouses with two or three seats? That’s not so you could take your pick-- it’s so two or three people could use the shitter at the same time. The public latrines in Pompeii survive: it’s a long marble bench with holes in it. There are no partitions or curtains. You would just sit there, next to your neighbor and do your business. Until the mid to late 1800s, families frequently slept in the same room. A chamberpot was usually positioned on the floor next to one of the bed. If you felt The Call in the wee hours (no pun intended) you would just hop out of bed and use it. No one thought a thing of it. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2006, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-regular-people-today-enjoy-a-better-life-than-the-great-rulers-of-the-past/372822/17 "2006-09-15T14:31:57Z")
We have the Straight Dope and the Straight Dope Message Board. The rulers of old had to connect to local BBS’s at 300 baud. Advantage: Us. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2006, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-regular-people-today-enjoy-a-better-life-than-the-great-rulers-of-the-past/372822/18 "2006-09-15T14:33:54Z")
[QUOTE=LonesomePolecat] The mightiest Roman emperor couldn’t buy a bottle of aspirin or a book of matches–or a shot of Novacaine when getting a tooth pulled. [/QUOTE] I’m pretty sure the Romans had access to opium. Marc ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2006, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-regular-people-today-enjoy-a-better-life-than-the-great-rulers-of-the-past/372822/19 "2006-09-15T14:38:07Z")
I just remembered a speech I once heard from Elizabeth II, talking about how she never would have dreamed when she started her reign that she would find herself (and you have to imagine the accent and cadence here) “surfing the net… or rather, watching somebody else surf the net.” ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2006, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-regular-people-today-enjoy-a-better-life-than-the-great-rulers-of-the-past/372822/20 "2006-09-15T14:48:28Z")
[QUOTE=MGibson] I’m pretty sure the Romans had access to opium. Marc [/QUOTE] Opium still isn’t nearly as good as Novacaine or other modern painkillers. I read a description of a tooth pulling in Larry Turtledove’s _Household Gods_, and even with the patient bombed out of her skull on wine and poppy juice (the “dentist” pointed out a wine shop and told her to get roaring drunk before the pulling), it was still a horrendous experience. You may recall what a horror cauterizing a wound was back when they had little other than hard liquor and perhaps some opium to help kill the pain; it’s been dramatized in any number of movies. Remember the phrase “bite the bullet”? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-regular-people-today-enjoy-a-better-life-than-the-great-rulers-of-the-past/372822.md?page=2)