# Do restaurants try to "hide" ugly or unattractive customers? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 7, 2015, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-restaurants-try-to-hide-ugly-or-unattractive-customers/717023 "2015-04-07T05:10:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-restaurants-try-to-hide-ugly-or-unattractive-customers/717023/41 "2015-04-07T21:19:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Anecdote time: In Garlic and Sapphires, Ruth Reichl shares that if she is recognized in a restaurant, the owners/waiters will surround her with happy people, often friends of the restaurant pulled in especially. These happy people will be given the same high quality food that she receives, rather than the peasant food (she remarks that she got raspberries twice as big as regular diners). Her original[dual review](http://www.nytimes.com/1993/10/29/arts/restaurants-065093.html) of Le Cirque. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-restaurants-try-to-hide-ugly-or-unattractive-customers/717023/42 "2015-04-07T21:48:39Z")
Whenever I eat out, it’s in a shabby tent off a carnival midway, behind a sign that says Behold The Amazing Devouro!, a list of feeding times, and a warning to Women and Youths of a Nervous Disposition, and I’ve never had a problem getting served. The lightbulbs are to die for! ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-restaurants-try-to-hide-ugly-or-unattractive-customers/717023/43 "2015-04-07T21:57:04Z")
While this is unlikely to be the explanation, I have noticed that there are a limited number of seats in most restaurants that my husband can sit at. Between abdominal obesity and a huge crop of abdominal hernias from three abdominal surgeries, his tum protrudes like that of Tweedledee. We can’t sit in most booths; he simply won’t fit between the back of the seat and the edge of the table. So we will often have to ask for a table instead of a booth, or a table which has booth seating on one side only, with chairs on the other side. On the other hand, at some places we can’t sit at the tables, because his chair will be far enough away from the table to be in the flow of traffic. Sometimes we have to do an embarrassing trail sit and then asked to be moved if he won’t fit. It’s just barely possible that you had a hostess kind and thoughtful enough to know that this is a problem at her restaurant, and so she guided you to the area of the restaurant with more room to accommodate your obese friend in comfort. I say it’s unlikely because we’ve almost never had a hostess realize the potential problem up front. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-restaurants-try-to-hide-ugly-or-unattractive-customers/717023/44 "2015-04-07T22:35:26Z")
After reading the posts in this thread, I think I’ll eat at home more often. :eek: In many restaurants there really does seem to be an attempt to seat people in the less desirable areas first (near the outer/kitchen door, adjacent to the bar area etc.), when there are better, unreserved tables elsewhere. I just ask for a booth or table in a location where I’d prefer to sit and generally get it. Not to say that Carrabba’s might not actually have a ghetto for the tubercular, obese and otherwise undesirable patrons that might put others off ordering dessert and 20-year-old port. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-restaurants-try-to-hide-ugly-or-unattractive-customers/717023/45 "2015-04-07T22:43:01Z")
I must be weird. If I don’t like a table, I nicely ask for a different one. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-restaurants-try-to-hide-ugly-or-unattractive-customers/717023/46 "2015-04-07T22:51:29Z")
Are some OP’s fishing for confirmation of being insulted? Sure, what recommendation is it for a heavy patron to eat at your restaurant? What you want is an actor made up like Jesus: loincloth, crown of thorns, tears of blood. “The reviews were so good I just had to climb down and try this place for myself!” ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-restaurants-try-to-hide-ugly-or-unattractive-customers/717023/47 "2015-04-08T00:06:32Z")
Former hostess. No, restaurants don’t do this. But seating is a complex art. The primary goal is to rotate between servers, so that each server gets the right number of guests-- enough to rake in tips, but not so many they get slammed. Your ability to keep waiters happy determines if they give you a portion of their tips, and that portion of their tips is what you use to eat. So basically, you rotate between servers evenly, right? Well, you also need to pay attention to table sizes, so that you aren’t filling large tables with small parties, which leads to all kinds of trouble. So, you may have to do a seating now and then outside of the rotation. And you may have a table that isn’t great for kids, or that needs repairs, or whatever, so you’ll have to mix those up, as well. And oh, all the members of the waitstaff are at different levels of business between “too slow” and :slammed." And you need to figure out how to space seatings to account for that. And these levels change every 20 minutes or so. But the most fun part of all is that waitstaff constantly comes and goes. During slow times, the restaurant may be broken up into two halves. During busy times, you may have ten waiters covering the same ground. And these patterns change constantly, sometimes several times an hour. So if you are trying to figure out “why did the host seat me there”, the answer is probably that it was an at-the-moment decision based on an enormous variety of ever changing factors. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-restaurants-try-to-hide-ugly-or-unattractive-customers/717023/48 "2015-04-08T00:24:06Z")
Seating people to make a restaurant look fuller from the street is pretty normal in city places, as is putting prettier people in the window, but Carabba’s probably has some orchestrated formula of profit maximization based on non-appearance-related profiling. This is disguised as an instruction like “you must seat larger people here, where the chairs roll out.” ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-restaurants-try-to-hide-ugly-or-unattractive-customers/717023/49 "2015-04-08T00:57:47Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I think some higher-end restaurants that attract a celebrity crowd will attempt to seat the boldface names at the more desirable tables. That may mean the ones in front, so the celebrities can see and be seen by others. It may mean the quiet table in the back, so the celebrities can eat unmolested. > > But a low-end chain of pseudo-Italian restaurants? The _entire_ restaurant is for the ugly or unattractive people. glad I know where to eat so I can avoid being around people like you. ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-restaurants-try-to-hide-ugly-or-unattractive-customers/717023/50 "2015-04-08T02:05:57Z")
> [@Beauregard\_Porkypine](#): > > Hearty congratulations on you and your wife’s “Normal” looks. I am so sorry you had to interact and comingle with those of less desirable appearance. Maybe those of us less attractive types should stay home and off the streets to ease your dining experience. > I would hate someone to “walk-in”, see me, and then run in disgust. Wow, aren’t we touchy. I just knew some smart ass was going to spout off "maybe you were the problem “yuk yuk yuk” but we are of normal weight, height, and I certainly did not advertise myself as Brad Pitt, but Im certainly not disfigured or disturbing looking that I know of so I was doing was heading it off at the pass. Theres no need to be sorry for us having to commingle and interact with those who society considers “less unattractive” since I JUST POINTED OUT WE WERE HAVING DINNER WITH A HEAVY FRIEND which was the point of the whole fucking OP. ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-restaurants-try-to-hide-ugly-or-unattractive-customers/717023/51 "2015-04-08T02:08:00Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > It’s really difficult to assess your own appearance. Just sayin. Maybe return to the restaurant and send your wife and heavy-set friend in without you. See if they get a primo table. I’ll get right on that for you. ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-restaurants-try-to-hide-ugly-or-unattractive-customers/717023/52 "2015-04-08T02:16:05Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Former hostess. No, restaurants don’t do this. > > But seating is a complex art. The primary goal is to rotate between servers, so that each server gets the right number of guests-- enough to rake in tips, but not so many they get slammed. Your ability to keep waiters happy determines if they give you a portion of their tips, and that portion of their tips is what you use to eat. So basically, you rotate between servers evenly, right? > > Well, you also need to pay attention to table sizes, so that you aren’t filling large tables with small parties, which leads to all kinds of trouble. So, you may have to do a seating now and then outside of the rotation. And you may have a table that isn’t great for kids, or that needs repairs, or whatever, so you’ll have to mix those up, as well. > > And oh, all the members of the waitstaff are at different levels of business between “too slow” and :slammed." And you need to figure out how to space seatings to account for that. And these levels change every 20 minutes or so. > > But the most fun part of all is that waitstaff constantly comes and goes. During slow times, the restaurant may be broken up into two halves. During busy times, you may have ten waiters covering the same ground. And these patterns change constantly, sometimes several times an hour. > > So if you are trying to figure out “why did the host seat me there”, the answer is probably that it was an at-the-moment decision based on an enormous variety of ever changing factors. Thank you for the answer. This originally was a General Question until I got my head torn off by Beauregard and it got dumped here with predictable results. I’m one of those go out and “see and be seen” people and do get annoyed at getting dressed up to go out and then being stuck in the closet room, Im not in the fucking Mafia . . . . . exception would be romantic dates with the wife (tip: Hibachi on Valentines Day=BAD IDEA) where a secluded location would be preferred. ---
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-restaurants-try-to-hide-ugly-or-unattractive-customers/717023/53 "2015-04-08T02:26:21Z")
I doubt it. I worked in a busy mid fine dining restaurant for five years. The only policy we had that could potentially upset customers was a no ball caps policy. Kept the riff-raff out, and truckers. ---
**Author:** ![GreenElf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@GreenElf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenElf)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-restaurants-try-to-hide-ugly-or-unattractive-customers/717023/54 "2015-04-08T09:41:17Z")
Another indicator would be how many ferns they moved next to your table to give your group some added “privacy”. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-restaurants-try-to-hide-ugly-or-unattractive-customers/717023/55 "2015-04-08T12:44:25Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > Theres no need to be sorry for us having to commingle and interact with those who society considers “less unattractive” since I JUST POINTED OUT WE WERE HAVING DINNER WITH A HEAVY FRIEND which was the point of the whole fucking OP. You went out to dinner with a friend and I assume you did so to spend time with your friend and enjoy his/her company. Why does it matter where you were seated as long as it didn’t detract from your ability to enjoy your company? > [@russian\_heel](#): > > I’m one of those go out and “see and be seen” people and do get annoyed at getting dressed up to go out and then being stuck in the closet room, … Oh. Well why didn’t you say so in the first place? Let us know the next time you go out and we’ll alert the media so you don’t waste another outfit. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-restaurants-try-to-hide-ugly-or-unattractive-customers/717023/56 "2015-04-08T12:56:43Z")
There was a bit of an uproar about this internationally a couple of years ago when it was revealed that: > [@](#): > > \*A French restaurant group has been accused of aesthetic snobbery after allegedly seating guests according to attractiveness. > > Good-looking diners at two of the most famous Paris establishments run by the well-known Costes group are said to be automatically upgraded to the best tables in the house. > > The claims have been made by two former employees who also revealed that the same rules apply for staff with female hostesses needing ‘a model’s physique’ to be considered for the job. > > Guests at Le Georges, a restaurant at the top of Paris’ Centre Pompidou with stunning panoramic views of the French capital, and Café Marly, near the Louvre, are given tables following a strict appearance policy – the better looking they are, the better the table. > > ‘The good-looking ones are led to the good places, where they can be easily seen,’ they two former staff members told French weekly Le Canard Enchaîné. > ‘As for the non-good-looking ones, it is imperative that they be dispatched to the corners of the room.’\* [Guests at Paris restaurants are seated following a strict appearance policy](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2489691/French-restaurant-group-seat-guests-according-good-looking-are.html) ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-restaurants-try-to-hide-ugly-or-unattractive-customers/717023/57 "2015-04-08T13:57:57Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > …which was the point of the whole fucking OP. :eek: I thought it was an _eating_ OP! If sex was involved, I can see where the larger folk may be moved off to one side. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-restaurants-try-to-hide-ugly-or-unattractive-customers/717023/58 "2015-04-08T14:35:28Z")
It happened to me some years back at a brand new French Restaurant in Adams Morgan. Four of us went in dressed in bike gear (spandex, cayrrying helmets, etc.) and the head – er, asshole – gave us a withering glare, pointed us off to a side table and told us we could stay for half an hour at most. We left, probably just as he wanted. ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-restaurants-try-to-hide-ugly-or-unattractive-customers/717023/59 "2015-04-08T20:28:42Z")
How ugly are we talking here? Do clocks automatically stop running when you walk by? Do small children and animals run in terror at the mere sight of you? Have you rung any bells lately? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-restaurants-try-to-hide-ugly-or-unattractive-customers/717023/60 "2015-04-08T20:46:04Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > It happened to me some years back at a brand new French Restaurant in Adams Morgan. Four of us went in dressed in bike gear (spandex, cayrrying helmets, etc.) and the head – er, asshole – gave us a withering glare, pointed us off to a side table and told us we could stay for half an hour at most. > > We left, probably just as he wanted. Heh, I had an interesting experience just the opposite of that: I was biking off-road along trails near Mont-Tremblant in Quebec (a fancy rural vacation spot - very pretty), when we came out to the main roads and realized we were starving and miles from anywhere; the nearest place that looked like it might have food was a fancy rural chateau-restaurant. Thing is, this place was seriously five-star - not that money was a problem, but we had been out biking all day and were hardly dressed appropriately - plus being very sweaty and dusty, literally with leaves in our hair. We were seriously dreading the reaction we’d get! As it turned out, the service could not have been more polite - even though the other patrons were all nicely dressed for dinner (and about thirty years older than us, on average) so we kinda stood out. The hosts found us a place to put our bikes helmets etc., offered us their washrooms to clean up in, and served us without a single snooty look. I think they were kinda tickled that someone _biked_ to the place. Of course we left a massive tip. I wish I could remember the name of the place, though it was a good 15 years ago, so it may no longer exist. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-restaurants-try-to-hide-ugly-or-unattractive-customers/717023.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-restaurants-try-to-hide-ugly-or-unattractive-customers/717023.md?page=4)