# Do right-wing talkers actually believe their own schtick? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 4, 2009, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-right-wing-talkers-actually-believe-their-own-schtick/495278 "2009-05-04T13:51:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-right-wing-talkers-actually-believe-their-own-schtick/495278/21 "2009-05-04T18:15:38Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Yes. Your premise as emphasized is bogus. That reminds me of the guy who told me recently that when he and his friends \*conjugate \*there’s usually alcohol involved. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-right-wing-talkers-actually-believe-their-own-schtick/495278/22 "2009-05-04T18:25:36Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > What sexual harrassment? Cite that he sexually harrassed anybody? Monica worked for Clinton. Therefore, by definition, any sex between them is sexual harassment…TRM ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-right-wing-talkers-actually-believe-their-own-schtick/495278/23 "2009-05-04T18:31:02Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > Monica worked for Clinton. Therefore, by definition, any sex between them is sexual harassment…TRM Nope. There was no coercion or quid pro quo. She never alleged harrassment. She was actually the aggressor. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-right-wing-talkers-actually-believe-their-own-schtick/495278/24 "2009-05-04T18:35:02Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Her word WAS the last word. Clinton didn’t settle because the case had any merit. The judge basically said that _even if everything PJ alleged was true_, it STILL was not enough to constitute sexual harrassment. So without even contesting a single factual allegation, Bill Clinton still did not harrass Paula Jones. Well, I guess we’ll just ignore the 8th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, then. The only reason _theirs_ wasn’t the last word (at least barring another round of appeals) is because the case was settled. Besides, are you contending that because someone claims a legal standard wasn’t met, it didn’t happen? That seems a bit out of character for you. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-right-wing-talkers-actually-believe-their-own-schtick/495278/25 "2009-05-04T18:36:23Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > Monica worked for Clinton. Therefore, by definition, any sex between them is sexual harassment…TRM Well, it would be if she actually worked for Clinton but she didn’t. She worked as an assistant to the Pentagon’s spokesman…or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-right-wing-talkers-actually-believe-their-own-schtick/495278/26 "2009-05-04T18:41:23Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, I guess we’ll just ignore the 8th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, then. The only reason _theirs_ wasn’t the last word (at least barring another round of appeals) is because the case was settled. They said it was settled, not that Clinton had harrassed anybody. > [@](#): > > Besides, are you contending that because someone claims a legal standard wasn’t met, it didn’t happen? That seems a bit out of character for you. It’s not a question of what did or didn’t happen. The judge said that even if it DID happen, it wasn’t harrassment. If an action doesn’t meet the legal definition of harrassment, then it isn’t harrassment.What other standard are you going to use? If nothing PJ accused Clinton of doing was enough to constitute harrassment (and the court said it wasn’t), then are you alleging that he did MORE than he was accused of? To simplify – what can you prove that Bill Clinton did that met a legal definition of sexual harrassment? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-right-wing-talkers-actually-believe-their-own-schtick/495278/27 "2009-05-04T18:46:02Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It’s not a question of what did or didn’t happen. Ah. Then you shouldn’t have said: > [@](#): > > What sexual harrassment? Cite that he sexually harrassed anybody? but rather: > [@](#): > > Cite where he was proven to have sexually harassed anybody? Let’s play with the correct goalposts, at least. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-right-wing-talkers-actually-believe-their-own-schtick/495278/28 "2009-05-04T18:50:44Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Nope. There was no coercion or quid pro quo. She never alleged harrassment. She was actually the aggressor. If it created a hostile environment for other workers, which it did after the story broke, then it could be sexual harassment. It broke George Stephanoplous’ tiny heart. But as far as the OP question goes, I’ve always suspected that Rush Limbaugh laughs all the way to the bank. And I was unaware of the Hannity to Olbermann quote. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-right-wing-talkers-actually-believe-their-own-schtick/495278/29 "2009-05-04T18:52:25Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Ah. Then you shouldn’t have said: > but rather: > > Let’s play with the correct goalposts, at least. There is no difference between those two statements. There is no difference between “cite” and “prove.” They are the same statement. So, leaving the goal post exactly where it started, cite that Bill Clinton sexually harrassed anybody? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-right-wing-talkers-actually-believe-their-own-schtick/495278/30 "2009-05-04T18:57:37Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > There is no difference between those two statements. Okay, I’ll remember that for the next thread about Scalia. A judge says something didn’t happen, therefore it didn’t happen. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-right-wing-talkers-actually-believe-their-own-schtick/495278/31 "2009-05-04T19:07:34Z")
You misunderstand. You are the one who has the burden of proof. I used Judge Wright’s dismissal of the PJ suit only to show that the suit could not be held up as proof that harrassment DID happen. Can you provide a cite for Clinton sexually harrassing anybody or can’t you? I don’t have to prove it _didn’t_ happen. You have to prove it _did_. ETA, Wright didn’t say that Clinton didn’t do anything he was accused of, she said nothing he was accused of met the legal definition of harrassment. Do you understand that yet? If it is not the job of the courts to rule on legal definitions, whose job is it? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-right-wing-talkers-actually-believe-their-own-schtick/495278/32 "2009-05-04T19:19:06Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > You misunderstand. No, I understand perfectly. You just neglected to add a minor qualifier to your original statement. I’ve seen you make any number of bold declarative statements in these threads, often missing necessary qualifiers. I figured this particular one warranted a challenge. Since you’ve now added the necessary qualifiers, I figure I made my point, trivial though it was. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-right-wing-talkers-actually-believe-their-own-schtick/495278/33 "2009-05-04T19:22:35Z")
What do you imagine that I’m qualifying? I haven’t even made a positive assertion, much less qualified one. Can you provide a cite that Clinton harrassed anybody or can’t you? ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-right-wing-talkers-actually-believe-their-own-schtick/495278/34 "2009-05-04T19:25:28Z")
How the hell did this turn into a forum about Bill Clinton? ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-right-wing-talkers-actually-believe-their-own-schtick/495278/35 "2009-05-04T19:27:31Z")
To get back to the original question, I sat next to Ann Coulter on a flight from Chicago to Denver a few years ago (I got put in first class). We didn’t talk politics, and she seemed to be a fairly normal person, but when a few people came up to her to shake her hand, she immediately went “into character”. I think she’s a genuine conservative, but I’d guess she only believes 15-20% of the crap she spouts. She’s found a very profitable niche and she isn’t going to let intellectual honesty get in the way of a huge paycheck. P.S. That woman is skinnnnyyy. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-right-wing-talkers-actually-believe-their-own-schtick/495278/36 "2009-05-04T19:35:21Z")
> [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > I think she’s a genuine conservative, but I’d guess she only believes 15-20% of the crap she spouts. She’s found a very profitable niche and she isn’t going to let intellectual honesty get in the way of a huge paycheck. It’s kinda hard to blame her. It’s similar to actors and comedians who are “on” in public. I guess it would undercut her particular image if she were to ever start displaying the fan-weary “I want to be alone” artiste persona. ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-right-wing-talkers-actually-believe-their-own-schtick/495278/37 "2009-05-04T19:54:00Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > According to Keith Olbermann, Sean Hannity pulled him aside and said something to the effect of “Can you believe people think we _mean_ all of this stuff? It’s a _show_!” (paraphrasing) I saw this segment and, if I remember correctly, Olbermann was not referring to Hannity’s beliefs but to the fact that people think they are feuding in real life. I don’t recall this conversation having anything to do with political beliefs. I tried to quickly find the clip or a transcript but haven’t found one yet. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-right-wing-talkers-actually-believe-their-own-schtick/495278/38 "2009-05-04T20:50:41Z")
KO did say right before that, though, that he thought there were people at Fox who would be perfectly willing to switch to shilling for the Dems if the money was right. He then told the Hannity anecdote without explicitly saying that Hannity was one of the guys he thought would do that, but leaving a a pretty unmistakeable implication. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-right-wing-talkers-actually-believe-their-own-schtick/495278/39 "2009-05-04T22:01:18Z")
> [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > To get back to the original question, I sat next to Ann Coulter on a flight from Chicago to Denver a few years ago (I got put in first class). We didn’t talk politics, and she seemed to be a fairly normal person, but when a few people came up to her to shake her hand, she immediately went “into character”. Did the transformation involve her nails growing long & red, extensions of her canine teeth, a wild look of bloodlust in her eyes, and an even more pallid complexion than usual? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-right-wing-talkers-actually-believe-their-own-schtick/495278/40 "2009-05-04T22:18:47Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > How the hell did this turn into a forum about Bill Clinton? It’s a tried and true right wing tactic. Works every time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-right-wing-talkers-actually-believe-their-own-schtick/495278.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-right-wing-talkers-actually-believe-their-own-schtick/495278.md?page=3)