# Do rotten personalities eventually pay for it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 5, 2005, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-rotten-personalities-eventually-pay-for-it/311094 "2005-07-05T01:58:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-rotten-personalities-eventually-pay-for-it/311094/21 "2005-07-05T14:10:24Z")
> [@plnnr](#): > > But what’s the cause of him not working? His son-of-a-bitchiness or the drek that was probably Lethal Weapon 4? Lethal Weapon 4 was rad! “In Hong Kong, you would already be dead.” That movie introduced Jet Li to American audiences! ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-rotten-personalities-eventually-pay-for-it/311094/22 "2005-07-05T14:12:16Z")
If the divabitch is going to cost the studio time with her incessant demands, then Pollyanna will get the part. Time is money in entertainment, and there are many tales of divabitches halting productions because their stupid demands aren’t being met. As a aside, I will like to mention that anyone in live theatre who is suspected of doing drugs will find their ass on the street. Drug usage is not tolerated in theare, where it can really mess things up. Andy Gibb is a prime example of this. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-rotten-personalities-eventually-pay-for-it/311094/23 "2005-07-05T14:39:02Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > As a aside, I will like to mention that anyone in live theatre who is suspected of doing drugs will find their ass on the street. Drug usage is not tolerated in theare, where it can really mess things up. [Helen Lawson] “Broadway doesn’t go for _booze_ and _dope!_” [/Helen Lawson] ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-rotten-personalities-eventually-pay-for-it/311094/24 "2005-07-05T15:38:14Z")
Hollywood being a business, everyone is going to get jobs as long as they deliver the profits. But pretty much everyone is going to have a failure at some point. I suspect the big difference is going to be nice guys will be more likely to get a second chance. Val Kilmer coming off _The Saint_ - people point a finger and do a Nelson Muntz “haaa-ha”. Ben Affleck coming off _Pearl Harbor_ - people say Ben’s a nice guy and let’s show him our script. ---
**Author:** ![TommyTutone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c4cdca/32.png) [@TommyTutone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TommyTutone)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-rotten-personalities-eventually-pay-for-it/311094/25 "2005-07-05T15:40:47Z")
> [@plnnr](#): > > But what’s the cause of him not working? His son-of-a-bitchiness or the drek that was probably Lethal Weapon 4? As bad as it was, I’d figure Pesci would still have some cred after his many good movies, but I’m sure that film, combined with his demeanor did him in. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-rotten-personalities-eventually-pay-for-it/311094/26 "2005-07-05T17:01:39Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > [Helen Lawson] “Broadway doesn’t go for _booze_ and _dope!_” [/Helen Lawson] Hollywood, on the other hand, doesn’t go with_out_. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-rotten-personalities-eventually-pay-for-it/311094/27 "2005-07-05T17:27:17Z")
Yes, Val Kilmer doesn’t seem to work very much anymore; but he did work a lot for a long time, and I’ve never heard one nice thing about him as a person (and he never worked with the same people twice, evidently, because he’s such an asshole). One hears that Catharine Zeta Jones is a bitch and a half, but she continues to make movies because we love to look at her (hell, I do too). ---
**Author:** ![Hodge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Hodge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hodge)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-rotten-personalities-eventually-pay-for-it/311094/28 "2005-07-05T18:48:57Z")
If anybody wants to see a real hair-raising Hollywood crash and burn story, check out [Overnight](http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0390336/). It’s a documentary about a bartender who’s given a golden opportunity by Miramax to direct a movie of his own script with music from his own band and how he sabotages it all with his raging ego. It’s got a slow-motion train wreck vibe to it where you can’t look away no matter how much you may wish to as this shreiking maniac destroys everything in his path. This movie actually made me feel sorry for Harvey Weinstein :eek: ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-rotten-personalities-eventually-pay-for-it/311094/29 "2005-07-05T19:44:09Z")
Well, I think we need a better definition of what a “jerk” is. In business, if a person has a nasty disposition, people generally will not want to work with them and their career will suffer. On the other hand, some people are superficially nice and pleasent but their actions make them a jerk - showing up late or skipping work, missed deadlines, failing to follow through on promises. Then there is the “quiet jerk”. Best described as an unspoken attitude of “look, I’m not interested in exchanging pleasentries with you…either get to the point or get out”. > [@](#): > > Having said that, Jeremy Piven’s character as mega-jerk / agent Ari on HBO’s “Entourage” is by far the best character on this great show, since he insults everyone except his clients. Must be that selectivism The Controvert is talking about. It’s not that he insults everyone for the sake of insulting people. He is uniquely focused on serving his clients. He puts this ahead of everything else - family, interpersonal relationships, etc. Personal assistants, Vince’s mooching friends, other agents - these are all “little people” who if they aren’t helping him are obsticals to be bullied and threatened out of the way. > [@Lakai](#): > > It is my theory that since it is human nature to be benevolent, that jerks suffer all their lives from the terrible guilt of being nasty to other people. I think they get what they deserve in guilt, which makes them very miserable. > > I fear that this might just be wishful thinking on my part. I would not expect a jerk to tell me the truth if I ask him if he is miserable, so I might never know the truth. Real jerks don’t care. People who are perpetually jerks probably are miserable. They could be jerks BECAUSE they are miserable, or they could be miserable because they are jerks and no one likes them. There’s an old Simpson quote - “sometimes people are mean because they’ve been abused and mistreated their whole lives…then again, some people are just jerks”. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-rotten-personalities-eventually-pay-for-it/311094/30 "2005-07-05T20:10:12Z")
> [@](#): > > Yes, Val Kilmer doesn’t seem to work very much anymore; but he did work a lot for a long time, That might just be a personal preference. He has a lot of money now, and seems to still do roles in small, independant films. Some people just like that. > [@](#): > > Then there is the “quiet jerk”. Best described as an unspoken attitude of “look, I’m not interested in exchanging pleasentries with you…either get to the point or get out”. I don’t consider them jerks. Some people are jsut really focused, and frankly, just plain want to get the business done. Aside from that, I personally think way too many people spend may too much time yakking. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-rotten-personalities-eventually-pay-for-it/311094/31 "2005-07-05T20:20:12Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > That might just be a personal preference. He has a lot of money now, and seems to still do roles in small, independant films. Some people just like that. I don’t know where this Val Kilmer doesn’t work thing came from. He seems like he’s been pretty busy. > [@](#): > > I don’t consider them jerks. Some people are jsut really focused, and frankly, just plain want to get the business done. Aside from that, I personally think way too many people spend may too much time yakking. It’s kind of jerky. There’s more to life than just work. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2005, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-rotten-personalities-eventually-pay-for-it/311094/32 "2005-07-06T01:08:18Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Yes, Val Kilmer doesn’t seem to work very much anymore; but he did work a lot for a long time, and I’ve never heard one nice thing about him as a person (and he never worked with the same people twice, evidently, because he’s such an asshole). Tony Scott, Ron Howard, and Oliver Stone all directed Kilmer twice (though I personally know someone in the industry who said VK was the only person they would never work with again in any capacity). ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2005, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-rotten-personalities-eventually-pay-for-it/311094/33 "2005-07-06T04:59:39Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Being a jerk is a disadvantage, as people will tend to shun you. But being _smartly_ not nice, not being too burdened with moral concerns without being a psychopath, being uncaring without being a jerk will give you a significant hedge. > > Not specific to stardom. I think a lot of what’s been said in this thread about rotten people in show biz and sports also applies to rotten people in business, law, education, and the rest of the “real” world. We usually hear about such behavior only in connection with sports and entertainment because those are very public fields. We “know” these people to a certain superficial degree. Other than his co-workers, I don’t think very many of us would be too interested in stories about the abominable conduct of an extremely capable but assholish C.P.A. in Lincoln, Nebraska (to cite an example). That doesn’t mean such toxic people don’t exist in the field of accounting. Another thing to keep in mind is that the likelihood that somebody will eventually pay for being a rotten jerk decreases according to how high they are on the food chain. For all their fame and money, even the most successful actors and athletes are only employees. There’s somebody above them who can fire or refuse to hire them if they step out of line. Those people above them are studio executives, producers, team owners and GMs and they, in contrast, often don’t have anybody above them who can “punish” them. Thus, if they so choose, they can get away with a lot more. For a historical precedence for this in the despots like Jack Warner, Harry Cohn, and L.B. Mayer who ran Hollywood during the era of the studio system. These tyrants reigned for decades with only death or retirement (forced in the case of Mayer) stopping them. And these people weren’t merely hated; they were **DETESTED** (for good reason). For example, there’s the story that when Harry Cohn died, Red Skelton, upon viewing the large attendance at the funeral, quipped, “Give the people what they want, and they’ll come out.” > [@Zsofia](#): > > One hears that Catharine Zeta Jones is a bitch and a half, but she continues to make movies because we love to look at her (hell, I do too). I’ve heard conflicting things about her behavior. Then again, not even the bitchiest bitch can be bitchy 100% of the time. ---
**Author:** ![Leviosaurus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/439d5e/32.png) [@Leviosaurus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leviosaurus)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2005, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-rotten-personalities-eventually-pay-for-it/311094/34 "2005-07-06T05:21:24Z")
All the people I’ve known who were real A1 jerks were very successful and continued to be very successful, though they sometimes needed to change jobs once they’d poisoned the pool for themselves. They are fine with that, though, and console themselves by blaming everyone else. I’ve heard the phrase “There are two kinds of people in the world: Givers and Takers. The Takers eat better and the Givers sleep better.” Well, hate to be a cynic, but from what I see the takers sleep just fine. Still, it just ain’t in me to be a jerk\*. The curse of those of us with hearts. If there’s enough of us, maybe we can eventually squeeze out the rest. Tom Hanks is supposed to be the nicest guy in Hollywood. - Except when I’m driving down the highway, cutting people off left and right. It’s their own fault for slowing me down! ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2005, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-rotten-personalities-eventually-pay-for-it/311094/35 "2005-07-06T05:50:36Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > In the world of stardom, there are any number of people who are not very nice people, I’m sure. Do they eventually get what they deserve, and fall from grace and stop getting jobs, etc, or do they stay successful regardless of how miserable a human being they are? I would like to think that a real loser would burn so many bridges that at some point they would have no options left, but I have no idea if this actually happens in reality, or if popular stars remain successful due to their huge talents and in spite of their shortcomings as human beings. > > Anybody have any ideas on this? No, but I prefer to think that assholes finish last… ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2005, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-rotten-personalities-eventually-pay-for-it/311094/36 "2005-07-06T05:51:42Z")
> [@The Controvert](#): > > I have a theory about this. People like to be around “selective” jerks. That is, people who treat only some people badly and not others. This is because if your friend knocks someone else down a peg, both of you can feel good. But if your friend treats everybody well, you don’t feel as special. Jealousy is human nature. > > But if you are the recipient of the rotten behavior, you tend to believe the person is nasty and evil to the core and how can anybody like this person? But if you flip the situation and look at it from the other person’s perspective, you might see that they do gain from your detriment. I think there is much truth in what you say. ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2005, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-rotten-personalities-eventually-pay-for-it/311094/37 "2005-07-06T05:57:49Z")
> [@Big Bad Voodoo Lou](#): > > I’ve also heard things about the difficulty of Shannen Doherty and Val Kilmer, and neither of them work as much as they used to. Reminds me of a “flash-in-the-pan” female actor - Sean something. She appeared on Leno/Letterman bemoaning the fact that she wasn’t getting the plum roles (because she was **so** intelligent), when it was totally obvious that she would be a total **bitch** to work with. ---
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2005, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-rotten-personalities-eventually-pay-for-it/311094/38 "2005-07-06T05:58:16Z")
> [@Leviosaurus](#): > > Tom Hanks is supposed to be the nicest guy in Hollywood. I’ve heard that as well. And he’s a multiple Oscar winner, respected throughout the industry, with a production company that gives him the power to do projects he’s passionate about, _and_ by all accounts he’s got a successful family life as well. Which all implies that it’s not about waiting to see the bad guys get what’s coming to them, but just to do well and reap the rewards from that. “Living well is the best revenge.” I would guess, though, that the pressure is on for people like Val Kilmer and Shannen Doherty and Sharon Stone and other notoriously “difficult” celebrities, to keep their appearance and/or scandalous reputation up, because they’ve burned countless bridges and won’t ever get any leads or parts based on their personality. That’s gotta suck. ---
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2005, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-rotten-personalities-eventually-pay-for-it/311094/39 "2005-07-06T06:00:24Z")
> [@Oslo Ostragoth](#): > > Reminds me of a “flash-in-the-pan” female actor - Sean something. She appeared on Leno/Letterman bemoaning the fact that she wasn’t getting the plum roles (because she was **so** intelligent), when it was totally obvious that she would be a total **bitch** to work with. [Sean Young](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000707/?fr=c2l0ZT1kZnxteD0yMHxsbT01MDB8dHQ9MXxmYj11fHBuPTB8cT1TZWFuIFlvdW5nfGh0bWw9MXxubT0x;fc=1;ft=20;fm=1). She also had a reputation for having a stalker-ish fixation on James Woods. It affected her celebrity, obviously, but apparently it hasn’t affected her ability to get steady work, based on her IMDB entry. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2005, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-rotten-personalities-eventually-pay-for-it/311094/40 "2005-07-06T06:48:17Z")
> [@SolGrundy](#): > > [Sean Young](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000707/?fr=c2l0ZT1kZnxteD0yMHxsbT01MDB8dHQ9MXxmYj11fHBuPTB8cT1TZWFuIFlvdW5nfGh0bWw9MXxubT0x;fc=1;ft=20;fm=1). She also had a reputation for having a stalker-ish fixation on James Woods. It affected her celebrity, obviously, but apparently it hasn’t affected her ability to get steady work, based on her IMDB entry. She gets “work” but it’s been mainly limited to supporting roles in cable or straight-to-video/DVD projects. Her career probably would’ve been a lot more successful if she didn’t have the “difficult” reputation (and if she bothered to learn how to act). As for the James Woods story, I think that was disproved. What really killed the momentum of her career was when she campaigned for the role of Catwoman in **Batman Returns** by dressing up like the character and invading the Warner Brothers lot to speak to Tim Burton. Burton was supposedly so freaked out by Young that he hid under his desk until security escorted her off the lot. Still, in some perverse way, you almost have to admire Young for obviously not giving a damn about her reputation. Most stars have a small army of handlers and PR people who do everything possible to gloss over and explain away anything negative. I don’t know if she’s honest, insane, or stupid but Young just lets her personality flaws hang out for the whole public to see. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-rotten-personalities-eventually-pay-for-it/311094.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-rotten-personalities-eventually-pay-for-it/311094.md?page=3)