# Do schools do enough to stop bullying? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 26, 2015, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-schools-do-enough-to-stop-bullying/713716 "2015-02-26T21:34:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![diggerwam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/919ad9/32.png) [@diggerwam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/diggerwam)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2015, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-schools-do-enough-to-stop-bullying/713716/21 "2015-02-28T15:18:49Z")
Back in the day, they didn’t obviously. At least now the conversation is being had. That’s progress. How much does this “awareness” really help? I don’t know and I don’t have kids in the school system but I have to believe that simply talking about it has got to make it at least a tiny bit better than what I had. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2015, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-schools-do-enough-to-stop-bullying/713716/22 "2015-02-28T15:20:18Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > But I think behaviors can be effectively controlled. If the mere accusation of bullying was enough to get a kid expelled, I think we’d see a huge drop in bullying/teasing behaviors. Er, no. Then the bullying would take the form of false bullying accusations. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2015, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-schools-do-enough-to-stop-bullying/713716/23 "2015-02-28T15:41:44Z")
I don’t know how things are today, but back when I was a kid the schools’ response ranged from “pretend it didn’t exist” to “blame the victim.” I got the shit kicked out of me on a daily basis in high school. The one and only time I went to the principal’s office about it, he chose the occasion to talk to me about my grades. Told me that I had a lot of “potential” and that by getting straight C’s, I wasn’t making Southeast High School look good. Until those grades improved, he had no interest in helping me. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2015, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-schools-do-enough-to-stop-bullying/713716/24 "2015-02-28T18:11:04Z")
> [@ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](#): > > In my day (1970s), schools didn’t give a shit. Boys will be boys, snitches get stitches, etc. In my day (also the 70’s) students wouldn’t let a bully hold court. He’d get his ass kicked if he tried to hurt a small kid. that’s not to say some smart mouth kid could go around taunting bullies with immunity but we weren’t going to allow a beat-down. I see the same behavior in bars. If some drunk walks around swinging his dick looking for trouble he’s going to get piled on if he starts wailing on someone. I suppose my point is that it’s not just up to the adults in the school system to affect change. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2015, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-schools-do-enough-to-stop-bullying/713716/25 "2015-02-28T18:34:17Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > I going to go way out on a limb here and say that bullying among human children cannot be stopped. I know of no culture, present or past, where bullying among children did not exist. If anyone can cite such a culture I’d really like to read about it (no snark, I’m being honest). > > The problem is that bullying seems to be innate among humans (and an awful lot of animals). Physically asserting dominance is how things are worked out “in the wild”. Among humans, the issue seems to get better with age, but never completely disappears. Once the reasoning and judgement part of the brain develops sufficiently (generally thought to be mid- to late 20’s), bullying is used less and other strategies - like cooperation - are used more. Until that time, asserting dominance through physical and verbal intimidation is often the default. In working with youth for many years I have seen countless instances where, even among a group of youths who all had been victims of bullying, a “pecking order” will be established and bullying behaviours will emerge. When I would sit down with the newly emerged bully and point out that they were engaging in the same behaviours that brought them into this group, they often rationalized and downplayed their actions. > > It’s pretty clear to me that the behaviour is rooted in the feeling of power that comes from it. I’m not sure that feeling can be erradicated among humans in general, much less among children. Like a drug, the good feeling requires more and more perceived power to get the same result. You know - power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. As long as power feels good, bullys will exist. If bullying were to be magically stopped in schools, it would simply move somewhere else. > TL&DR - The question should be “Have schools done enough to minimize the opportunities for bullying to take place and punish it appropriately when it occurs?”. A well run Catholic school undoubtedly has bullies. But they don’t engage in bullying. Yes, unsupervised children can go all “Lord of the Flies” just like adults. That is why you supervise. All the subjects taught to children at school formally can be taught one to one with tutors or homeschooled or self taught through books, except how to get along with others. That is the most important part of the curriculum. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Ayebaw](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darth_ayebaw/32/9870_2.png) [@Darth\_Ayebaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Ayebaw)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2015, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-schools-do-enough-to-stop-bullying/713716/26 "2015-02-28T22:31:24Z")
Not even close. We could, by constant in and out of school audio and video surveillance. That parts easy. The hard part is getting people to take it seriously and punish the offenders. People wonder why I’m on board with ultra invasive surveillance. I’m a victim. Maybe if I had proof people would’ve done something about it. I doubt it, but then at least they wouldn’t accuse me of being a liar on top of just getting my ass handed to me while I don’t even fight back. Only option IRL is to wear a trench coat, eat lunch in the stairwell, and hope they’re too scared of you to take an empty peanut butter jar collect honeybees and dump them down your shirt in the middle of class while the native teacher looks on and sees nothing of what happens to the poor haole nerd. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2015, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-schools-do-enough-to-stop-bullying/713716/27 "2015-02-28T22:59:04Z")
> [@Darth\_Ayebaw](#): > > The hard part is getting people to take it seriously and punish the offenders. Especially if the bully is an athlete or from a prominent or wealthy family.l ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2015, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-schools-do-enough-to-stop-bullying/713716/28 "2015-02-28T23:11:00Z")
> [@The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](#): > > Until, of course, the popular kids lead by the bully all write down the name of the social outcast that everyone dislikes. Now, the kids have thwarted your plan and the downtrodden may get even worse treatment. > > It’s worth noting that the majority of kids are bystanders, and while some are unable to move themselves to action, others implicitly support the bully’s actions. The kids who get picked on are usually (but not always) very well liked by everyone else. Everyone’s experience is different, but for me from grade school all the way to high school everyone in every grade knew who the bullies were. And bullies did not associate with popular kids and vice versa. Nor did popular kids openly nor tacitly endorse bullies or their friends or their actions. Other than making a big deal about ‘anti-bullying’ and ‘zero-tolerance’ campaigns (which are 100% ineffective and ‘feel-good’ pointless) I don’t think things have changed much since I was in school in the 70s and early 80s. In fact, I think it’s actually worse because of the addition of the ‘no child left behind’ crap. Bullies should be punished, left behind, and abandoned when necessary. Kids can be assholes, but you need to identify and remove the ones that are future (or current) sociopaths and/or criminals. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2015, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-schools-do-enough-to-stop-bullying/713716/29 "2015-02-28T23:34:07Z")
If anything they do too much, or what they do is the wrong thing and hurts more than it helps, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2015, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-schools-do-enough-to-stop-bullying/713716/30 "2015-03-01T06:13:00Z")
Personally, I’ve never seen a bully succeed if the adults around them are not in some way helping them. Some teachers actually laugh when certain students get hurt. We all know PE teachers are notorious for being bullies. ---
**Author:** ![Syne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Syne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syne)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2015, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-schools-do-enough-to-stop-bullying/713716/31 "2015-03-01T10:13:58Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Personally, I’ve never seen a bully succeed if the adults around them are not in some way helping them. Some teachers actually laugh when certain students get hurt. We all know PE teachers are notorious for being bullies. This is true. I was bullied some in middle school and it only happened when teachers were complicit or not around. I honestly think that apathy from the people who are supposed to be helping you is the worst crime of all. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2015, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-schools-do-enough-to-stop-bullying/713716/32 "2015-03-01T10:22:19Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Personally, I’ve never seen a bully succeed if the adults around them are not in some way helping them. Some teachers actually laugh when certain students get hurt. We all know PE teachers are notorious for being bullies. I’ve told before the story of how one of my former classmates (who probably has ADHD, or at least way too much energy) ended up becoming our high school’s new PE teacher. On his first day of class, more than 20 of his classmates happened to be in town and we went to watch that first class (not as a group - heck, if we’d known we’d be a crowd we wouldn’t have gone!) and, when he sent the kids to shower and came to tell us “go ahead, laugh” we told him “oh, no, we’re not laughing! We’re here to wish you the best, because we’re all sure you’ll be a great PE teacher. For starters, you know not everybody has your energy levels :)” Both the girls’ PE teacher in 4-8 and the boys’ 9-11 were bullies. The current ones aren’t. Not only is it perfectly possible to stop bullying among the children, it’s even possible to get a PE teacher who knows that if you can’t see without your glasses, you can’t see without your glasses. But you need people with the will and the power to do it. The students who were bullied were those whose parents were not going to defend them, ever - either because they were on the teacher’s side no matter what, or they were the first ones who hated their kid, or they simply didn’t know how to go about it (didn’t know how to use the system). ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2015, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-schools-do-enough-to-stop-bullying/713716/33 "2015-03-01T13:42:44Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Especially if the bully is an athlete or from a prominent or wealthy family.l Around here its the opposite. The prominent and wealthy families can find something else to do with their kids - a different private school, homeschool, a charter school that the parents transport to. The athletes have something that is pulled from them - sports - and that threat (and following through on it) tends to keep them in line. Its the kids with nothing to lose, no home support, and whose only consistency is school that its hard to deal with. Sure, you can give them suspension, but then they are home, out of school, unsupervised. If its bad enough to expel them, the state still needs to give them an education, so its special schools and busing and a drain on the districts limited dollars. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-schools-do-enough-to-stop-bullying/713716/34 "2015-03-02T14:29:01Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I used to think this too. But now I’m not too sure: > > [A troop of baboons demonstrate that bullying behavior is not inevitable](http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/13/science/no-time-for-bullies-baboons-retool-their-culture.html) I actually saw that study. While it is certainly interesting, two things jump out: 1) they’re baboons, not humans 😉 , and 2) the study indicates that, even among baboons, this troop are far outside the behavioural bell curve. I’m not sure what real simian conclusions can be drawn from this, much less human. > [@monstro](#): > > But I think behaviors can be effectively controlled. If the mere accusation of bullying was enough to get a kid expelled, I think we’d see a huge drop in bullying/teasing behaviors. The kids who would continue to bully would be the same minority of kids who break all the other rules. But the majority of kids would keep their mean thoughts to themselves. > [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > A well run Catholic school undoubtedly has bullies. But they don’t engage in bullying. Yes, unsupervised children can go all “Lord of the Flies” just like adults. That is why you supervise. All the subjects taught to children at school formally can be taught one to one with tutors or homeschooled or self taught through books, except how to get along with others. That is the most important part of the curriculum. I agree that bullying could be significantly ruduced in a school setting. It can’t be eliminated because the kids can’t be supervised 100% of the time. I suspect, however, that the reduction of bullying at school would be at least partially offset by an increase in bullying elsewhere. Bullies need the power rush. They are going to look for other places to get it. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-schools-do-enough-to-stop-bullying/713716/35 "2015-03-02T14:33:12Z")
Also, sometimes an attack can happen so quickly that no amount of policing, monitoring, “No Bullying” signs, teachers can prevent it. You can have guards strolling the facilities at all times, but if one student decides he or she wants to punch another student in the face, how could anyone react quickly enough to stop that first punch? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-schools-do-enough-to-stop-bullying/713716/36 "2015-03-02T14:34:25Z")
And I am concerned that bullying, like everything, may soon become tainted by politics or favoritism. That is to say, administrators and teachers will crack down on bullying of students that they approve of, while looking the other way (to a certain extent) on bullying of students that they don’t approve of. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-schools-do-enough-to-stop-bullying/713716/37 "2015-03-02T19:21:29Z")
There are Christians who want to claim religious liberty in order to bully gay kids so we are certainly not doing enough to stop it. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2015, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-schools-do-enough-to-stop-bullying/713716/38 "2015-03-03T04:54:23Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > And I am concerned that bullying, like everything, may soon become tainted by politics or favoritism. That is to say, administrators and teachers will crack down on bullying of students that they approve of, while looking the other way (to a certain extent) on bullying of students that they don’t approve of. That’s always gone on. And there are going to be situations where a bully (physical, verbal, or emotional) isn’t going to care about the consequences. That happened to me at a high school band concert, when the girl sitting next to me thought it would be really funny to make an ugly scene, aimed at me, onstage. :eek: Not only were my parents in the audience, hers were too, and she got in some pretty big trouble at school. To her, it was worth it. I’m really surprised I didn’t get beaten up, or worse, for “getting her in trouble.” :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2015, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-schools-do-enough-to-stop-bullying/713716/39 "2015-03-03T05:27:13Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Last week at Liberty middle school in Liberty Missouri, and 8th grade bully beat a younger, smaller boy so bad he required 4 days of hospitalization [(story](http://www.kctv5.com/story/28192510/boy-with-asbergers-syndrome-in-hospital-for-5-days-after-attack-at-school)). > > This was of course in a school with the typical “No Bully” signs everywhere. > > The parents had notified the principal thru certified letter of the problem with the boy but the school ignored it. The bully though had had several reprimands for previous incidents. > > Now ever since the horrible tragedy at Columbine there has been increased attention on reducing school bullying. From my experience, it varies by school. In many cases teachers and administrators look the other way or sometimes even encourage it. Heck, IMO, PE teachers, were often bullies themselves back in the day and relive it as paid staff. They also often ignore bullies because they make great athletes. > > What do you all think? I think it’s time to put 13-year-old sociopaths where they belong. Incarcerated. Forever. Straight from juvie to real prison. Do I not pay taxes to keep this stuff from happening? This monster will end up murdering at least one person before he goes away for good. At least. THAT person will be the real victim, because the kid that did this is un-fucking-fixable, no doubt. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2015, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-schools-do-enough-to-stop-bullying/713716/40 "2015-03-03T05:31:50Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Personally, I’ve never seen a bully succeed if the adults around them are not in some way helping them. Some teachers actually laugh when certain students get hurt. We all know PE teachers are notorious for being bullies. My PE teacher watched me beat the snot out of my best friend, for sure. He deserved the beating, though. I felt it incumbent on his closest friend in the gym to deliver it with “love”. LOL in all reality, I was just about to seriously hurt him when the teacher stepped in. So, whatever. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-schools-do-enough-to-stop-bullying/713716.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-schools-do-enough-to-stop-bullying/713716.md?page=3)