# Do scientists believe they are better than the rest? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 22, 2011, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-scientists-believe-they-are-better-than-the-rest/579303 "2011-04-22T00:17:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-scientists-believe-they-are-better-than-the-rest/579303/121 "2011-04-23T05:03:22Z")
> [@pinguin](#): > > In fact, the promisses of A.I. and the failures that followed are famous, and becoming legendary. Are you trying to say scientists shouldn’t feel good about themselves because they haven’t succeeded at creating true artificial intelligence? Because I hear that scientists sometimes study other things… ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-scientists-believe-they-are-better-than-the-rest/579303/122 "2011-04-23T05:08:23Z")
Most of my work is on groundwater-surface water interactions. If I invented AI, nobody would be more surprised than me. ---
**Author:** ![pinguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac8455/32.png) [@pinguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinguin)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-scientists-believe-they-are-better-than-the-rest/579303/123 "2011-04-23T05:09:41Z")
Nope. I haven’t said that. I am just suggesting that **SOME** scientists have downplayed the complexity of the problem they are studying. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-scientists-believe-they-are-better-than-the-rest/579303/124 "2011-04-23T05:53:00Z")
> [@pinguin](#): > > What arguments are not convincing? All of them so far, but I guess tomorrow is another day. > [@](#): > > The problem is, people here believe I try to convince them about something. I am not. I am just asking questions, so the stereotypes fall by themselves, by its own internal contradictions.. A lot of what you’ve said is just nonsense. I think you’d want to avoid that whether you’re “just asking questions” or making arguments. And you’ve done both, by the way. This thread starts with a stupid question (“Do scientists believe they are better than the rest?”) and it mostly went downhill from there (‘scientists are like the Nazis because they think they’re superior,’ ‘if scientists are so smart, why aren’t they businessmen?’ etc). Asking questions implies some open-minded curiosity about the answer. In most of your threads you start off “knowing” the answer and then you try to badger people into agreeing you by using loaded questions, strawman arguments, and bullshit. This is exactly why the phrase “Just Asking Questions” or JAQing Off has acquired such a bad reputation. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-scientists-believe-they-are-better-than-the-rest/579303/125 "2011-04-23T07:38:38Z")
I think I just had an epiphany. [Could it be…](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-agl0pOQfs)? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-scientists-believe-they-are-better-than-the-rest/579303/126 "2011-04-23T08:07:26Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > Most of my work is on groundwater-surface water interactions. If I invented AI, nobody would be more surprised than me. “When **Enginerd** began work on his newest project, little did he know where it would lead…he certainly didn’t expect his drainage system to begin plotting revenge against mankind. Until it was _too late_.” ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-scientists-believe-they-are-better-than-the-rest/579303/127 "2011-04-23T08:43:45Z")
> [@pinguin](#): > > Nope. I haven’t said that. I am just suggesting that **SOME** scientists have downplayed the complexity of the problem they are studying. How can one simultaneously downplay the complexity of their field \*and \*believe they are smarter than the rest of humankind? Those two ideas sort of contradict each other. These scientists you speak of are clearly even more diabolical than I first thought. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-scientists-believe-they-are-better-than-the-rest/579303/128 "2011-04-23T09:51:11Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > How can one simultaneously downplay the complexity of their field \*and \*believe they are smarter than the rest of humankind? And yet, this would be such an apt sum-up of pinguin’s behavior in the “Census at first contact myth” thread. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-scientists-believe-they-are-better-than-the-rest/579303/129 "2011-04-23T12:42:16Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > How can one simultaneously downplay the complexity of their field \*and \*believe they are smarter than the rest of humankind? Those two ideas sort of contradict each other. > > These scientists you speak of are clearly even more diabolical than I first thought. Not to mention that I have yet to meet a professional of any flavor who regularly downplays the difficulty of what they’re doing. “Oh, this is just TOO easy! No, no - stop giving me so much funding. I don’t need it! I can solve this in my garage over the weekend!” I think you’ll find that if there’s distortion in the public view of science, it often comes via popular media. ---
**Author:** ![pinguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac8455/32.png) [@pinguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinguin)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-scientists-believe-they-are-better-than-the-rest/579303/130 "2011-04-23T14:04:45Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > And yet, this would be such an apt sum-up of pinguin’s behavior in the “Census at first contact myth” thread. “Census at first contact myth” was just an exercise to show how the results published by scientists are taken as the actual “truth” by many readers. Science is not about “HAVING” the “truth”, but to reach up to it. Many people forget that science is not a religion, Comte style. Science is not a temple full of figures of scientific saints, like Galileo, Newton, Darwin or Einstein, to whom the believers carry flowers.. :rolleyes: No sir. Science is a process of discovering and modeling the world. A brutal process of destroying ignorancy by studying **FACTS**. So, there isn’t nothing sacred in science. No theory is sacred either, and even relativity or quantum mechanics could suffer dramatic revisions in the far away future. Science is not about fancy mathematics, or high egos with lot of prestige. Fancy mathematics are tools to process and modeling facts: the experiments. The high egos of science, the Nobel prizes and the fame, are simply the carrots to motivate younger generations to follow the hard road to scientific discovery. Science is just an industry whose product is knowledge… Or better, basic “known how”. So, why the big deal if someone doubt a particularly class of scientists is not doing a good job? Particularly when they aren’t careful in analysing the facts. ---
**Author:** ![pinguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac8455/32.png) [@pinguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinguin)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-scientists-believe-they-are-better-than-the-rest/579303/131 "2011-04-23T14:11:27Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Not to mention that I have yet to meet a professional of any flavor who regularly downplays the difficulty of what they’re doing. “Oh, this is just TOO easy! No, no - stop giving me so much funding. I don’t need it! I can solve this in my garage over the weekend!” > > I think you’ll find that if there’s distortion in the public view of science, it often comes via popular media. Nope. It is not! Perhaps you are too young to remember. But famous promises that have not been met are very common. For instance, Fusion has been going on for 60 years! And there is still not here the promised energy. Another case is A.I.. In the 1950 A.I. was believed reached in “a few years”. If you want refferences to it, you can find them everywhere. For instance, in retrofuturism sites. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-scientists-believe-they-are-better-than-the-rest/579303/132 "2011-04-23T14:45:31Z")
And remember when Kennedy said we’d reach the moon within the decade? Where did \*that \*get us? ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-scientists-believe-they-are-better-than-the-rest/579303/133 "2011-04-23T14:46:50Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > And yet, this would be such an apt sum-up of pinguin’s behavior in the “Census at first contact myth” thread. I’m going to miss him when he’s gone. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-scientists-believe-they-are-better-than-the-rest/579303/134 "2011-04-23T15:41:01Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > I’m going to miss him when he’s gone. He’s not gone, he’s just been looking for a quote in those humongous libraries they have back in Chile, those places are so huge it’s quite the expedition. But seeing as it is ripe with unheard-by-the-rest-of-the-world treasures of knowledge, it is well worth it. Now, if only those Yanquis scientists, would care to move their asses out of those Ivory Towers I hear the inhabit, and check the F-A-C-T-S! On the other hand since none of them care to read Spanish, and we all know real knowledge only exists in that language (coincidentaly the language of the O.P.), why should they bother? ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-scientists-believe-they-are-better-than-the-rest/579303/135 "2011-04-23T15:41:21Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > And remember when Kennedy said we’d reach the moon within the decade? Where did \*that \*get us? Kennedy was an exceptional scientist. ---
**Author:** ![pinguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac8455/32.png) [@pinguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinguin)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-scientists-believe-they-are-better-than-the-rest/579303/136 "2011-04-23T15:46:03Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > He’s not gone, he’s just been looking for a quote in those humongous libraries they have back in Chile, those places are so huge it’s quite the expedition. … I bet you read Borges, and the story the Babel library :rolleyes: In any case, Borges sounds better in Spanish, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-scientists-believe-they-are-better-than-the-rest/579303/137 "2011-04-23T16:11:59Z")
> [@pinguin](#): > > In any case, Borges sounds better in Spanish, of course. That might have been a joke. ---
**Author:** ![pinguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac8455/32.png) [@pinguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinguin)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-scientists-believe-they-are-better-than-the-rest/579303/138 "2011-04-23T16:14:17Z")
Even Shakespeare sound better in Spanish. “Ser o no ser” it is a lot more poetic than “To be or not to be”. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-scientists-believe-they-are-better-than-the-rest/579303/139 "2011-04-23T16:14:54Z")
> [@pinguin](#): > > Do scientists believe they are better than the rest? > > What do you think? Do scientists believe they are smarter than the rest of humans? Yes, scientists are better than you, and yes, scientists are smarter than you, but then you have demonstrated that most of the rest of humanity is both better and smarter than you, so scientists’ superiority compared to you has little to do with their being scientists. ---
**Author:** ![pinguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac8455/32.png) [@pinguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinguin)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-scientists-believe-they-are-better-than-the-rest/579303/140 "2011-04-23T16:17:15Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Yes, scientists are better than you, and yes, scientists are smarter than you, but then you have demonstrated that most of the rest of humanity is both better and smarter than you. And if you are part of those “smarter than me”, why you paid attention and answer my posts, I guess. I bet I have touched some of your beliefs, or destroyed one of your more prized paradigms, in order for you to feel the need to pay attention to me… Isn’t? :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-scientists-believe-they-are-better-than-the-rest/579303.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-scientists-believe-they-are-better-than-the-rest/579303.md?page=8)