# Do Serial Killers ever just stop?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-serial-killers-ever-just-stop/620538
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [May 1, 2012, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-serial-killers-ever-just-stop/620538 "2012-05-01T17:52:59Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@Rampant\_Coypu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rampant_Coypu)
#### Post date: [May 22, 2012, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-serial-killers-ever-just-stop/620538/41 "2012-05-22T06:55:37Z")
Ed Kemper stopped, because he was a decent man in spite of being a serial killer.
His last two victims were people who had wronged him during his life. The same might have been true of his first two victims. But the main thing is that Kemper stopped himself.
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### Author:  [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)
#### Post date: [May 22, 2012, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-serial-killers-ever-just-stop/620538/42 "2012-05-22T07:21:08Z")
> [@Rampant\_Coypu](#):
>
> Ed Kemper stopped, because he was a decent man in spite of being a serial killer.
>
> His last two victims were people who had wronged him during his life. The same might have been true of his first two victims. But the main thing is that Kemper stopped himself.
This has to be a wind up. He killed his grandparents when he was 15. He killed 8 more people before he left (including his mother) and was running when caught by police.
Hardly stopped.
[Story.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Kemper)
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### Author:  [@Rampant\_Coypu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rampant_Coypu)
#### Post date: [May 23, 2012, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-serial-killers-ever-just-stop/620538/43 "2012-05-23T06:27:44Z")
> [@Cicero](#):
>
> This has to be a wind up. He killed his grandparents when he was 15. He killed 8 more people before he left (including his mother) and was running when caught by police.
>
> Hardly stopped.
>
> [Story.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Kemper)
OK, two grandparents, six strangers, his mom and his mom’s friend and he turned himself in and has allowed himself to become a test subject in many studies.
I think Kemper is as moral as a serial killer can be. Four of his victims were family members who had wronged him and after killing six random strangers he killed two more and turned himself in. Kemper is as good as serial killers get.
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### Author:  [@anson2995](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anson2995)
#### Post date: [May 23, 2012, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-serial-killers-ever-just-stop/620538/44 "2012-05-23T15:51:59Z")
> [@Rampant\_Coypu](#):
>
> I think Kemper is as moral as a serial killer can be. Four of his victims were family members who had wronged him and after killing six random strangers he killed two more and turned himself in. Kemper is as good as serial killers get.
I think that’s a bizarre view of things. Sociopaths blame others irrationally for their problems, and just because Kemper felt his grandparents and mother “wronged him” doesn’t mean they did, or that his actions were justified. (And I’m not sure the facts even support the idea that his mother or grandparents did anything to him).
Kemper’s necrophilia and cannibalism suggests extreme psychosis. He described himself as a “hunter” in prison interviews. He described the thrill he got from mutilating his victims.
And he stopped himself, but mostly because he was disappointed that his crimes had not attracted the notoriety he felt he deserved. In this sense, he’s similar to Dennis Rader.
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [May 23, 2012, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-serial-killers-ever-just-stop/620538/45 "2012-05-23T16:04:09Z")
> [@gytalf2000](#):
>
> Yeah, I wonder if Jack the Ripper really just ceased his killing on his own – did he stop at five? Of course, something might have happened to him, like dropping dead of a heart attack or stroke. I doubt that he “got religion”, or anything like that…
Serial killers display a fairly linear progression in terms of “skill”- that is, killers like JTR, who stab their victims, become a lot better at it as they go on. However, the five known victims were all killed in pretty much the same fashion, so he had _probably_ killed others before them.
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### Author:  [@Wakinyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wakinyan)
#### Post date: [May 23, 2012, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-serial-killers-ever-just-stop/620538/46 "2012-05-23T20:02:46Z")
> [@Rampant\_Coypu](#):
>
> OK, two grandparents, six strangers, his mom and his mom’s friend and he turned himself in and has allowed himself to become a test subject in many studies.
>
> I think Kemper is as moral as a serial killer can be. Four of his victims were family members who had wronged him and after killing six random strangers he killed two more and turned himself in. Kemper is as good as serial killers get.
(Guys, listen, I think Kemper has internet access from the prison.)
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### Author:  [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)
#### Post date: [May 23, 2012, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-serial-killers-ever-just-stop/620538/47 "2012-05-23T21:50:58Z")
> [@Rampant\_Coypu](#):
>
> Ed Kemper stopped, because he was a decent man in spite of being a serial killer.
>
> His last two victims were people who had wronged him during his life. The same might have been true of his first two victims. But the main thing is that Kemper stopped himself.
I can’t argue with that assessment. Ed Kemper is a decent man. Well, alright, there may be some merit in postulating that it edges a bit toward the outer boundary of proper decorum to have oral sex with the severed head of one’s mother, then using it as a dartboard, but all things considered, really not a bad bloke at all.
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### Author:  [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)
#### Post date: [May 23, 2012, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-serial-killers-ever-just-stop/620538/48 "2012-05-23T22:41:11Z")
> [@Tibby or Not Tibby](#):
>
> I can’t argue with that assessment. Ed Kemper is a decent man. Well, alright, there may be some merit in postulating that it edges a bit toward the outer boundary of proper decorum to have oral sex with the severed head of one’s mother, then using it as a dartboard, but all things considered, really not a bad bloke at all.
Don’t be a playa hata
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### Author:  [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)
#### Post date: [May 23, 2012, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-serial-killers-ever-just-stop/620538/49 "2012-05-23T23:40:49Z")
What about Ed Gein? (the inspiration for Hannibal Lector).
Did he quit killing and flaying his victims? Or did he only stop when caught?
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [May 23, 2012, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-serial-killers-ever-just-stop/620538/50 "2012-05-23T23:58:35Z")
Gein was caught a few days after taking his last victim from a hardware store, so the latter.
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### Author:  [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2012, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-serial-killers-ever-just-stop/620538/51 "2012-05-24T00:26:29Z")
> [@ralph124c](#):
>
> What about Ed Gein? (the inspiration for Hannibal Lector).
> Did he quit killing and flaying his victims? Or did he only stop when caught?
[Ed Gein](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Gein) was the inspiration for Buffalo Bill from _The Silence of the Lambs_, not Lecter. And he only stopped when caught.
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### Author:  [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2012, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-serial-killers-ever-just-stop/620538/52 "2012-05-24T00:49:15Z")
> [@duality72](#):
>
> [Ed Gein](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Gein) was the inspiration for Buffalo Bill from _The Silence of the Lambs_, not Lecter. And he only stopped when caught.
Who was the inspiration for Lecter?
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### Author:  [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2012, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-serial-killers-ever-just-stop/620538/53 "2012-05-24T00:58:59Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#):
>
> Who was the inspiration for Lecter?
[Complicated,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_Lecter#Concept_and_creation) but inspirations seem to include [Pietro Pacciani](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pietro_Pacciani), William Coyne, [Albert Fish](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Fish), and [Andrei Chikatilo](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrei_Chikatilo).
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### Author:  [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2012, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-serial-killers-ever-just-stop/620538/54 "2012-05-24T02:04:03Z")
> [@duality72](#):
>
> [Complicated,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_Lecter#Concept_and_creation) but inspirations seem to include [Pietro Pacciani](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pietro_Pacciani), William Coyne, [Albert Fish](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Fish), and [Andrei Chikatilo](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrei_Chikatilo).
> [@Wikipedia](#):
>
> In 1992, Harris also attended the ongoing trials of Pietro Pacciani, who was suspected of being the serial killer nicknamed the “Monster of Florence”. Parts of the killer’s modus operandi were used as reference for the novel Hannibal, which was released in 1999. In an interview on Inside the Actors Studio, Hopkins said that he used the characteristics of Katharine Hepburn and HAL 9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey as inspiration for his performance.
Lecter is of course in Florence in\* Hannibal.\*
I read an interview where Hopkins said he merely read the script and had Lecter down. 🙂
Brian Cox wasn’t bad in the role, either.
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### Author:  [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)
#### Post date: [May 25, 2012, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-serial-killers-ever-just-stop/620538/55 "2012-05-25T17:44:14Z")
OK, now it’s totally easy to see how Hopkins used HAL 9000 as the inspiration for Lecter’s speech patterns. It seems really obvious now.
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### Author:  [@Rampant\_Coypu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rampant_Coypu)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2012, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-serial-killers-ever-just-stop/620538/56 "2012-05-27T04:05:26Z")
> [@anson2995](#):
>
> I think that’s a bizarre view of things. Sociopaths blame others irrationally for their problems, and just because Kemper felt his grandparents and mother “wronged him” doesn’t mean they did, or that his actions were justified. (And I’m not sure the facts even support the idea that his mother or grandparents did anything to him).
>
> Kemper’s necrophilia and cannibalism suggests extreme psychosis. He described himself as a “hunter” in prison interviews. He described the thrill he got from mutilating his victims.
>
> And he stopped himself, but mostly because he was disappointed that his crimes had not attracted the notoriety he felt he deserved. In this sense, he’s similar to Dennis Rader.
I was not trying to say that Kemper was justified in killing his grandparents and mother and his mother’s friend. I was just trying to say there was something different about Kemper that his first and last victims were his abusers. He killed six other victims almost at random. Kemper is one fucked up dude.
I just meant to way that Kemper is more moral than most serial killers because he had real beef with four of his victims and turned himself in after a break from killing unconnected victims and killing two of his abusers. Kemper has been a model prisoner and has gladly participated in studies of serial killers.
As for your ideas that that Kemper was not that badly abused, I can tell you with certainty that the kind of social isolation he experienced is debilitating. I experienced the same thing. Imagine the emptiest, deepest, darkest hole where everything you remember that was good about your childhood is GONE. I have the same empty hole Kemper had, and for similar reasons. He had a brain that could switch to serial killer mode and I don’t. But at least Kemper had the guts to call a stop to what he was doing.
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### Author:  [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2012, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-serial-killers-ever-just-stop/620538/57 "2012-05-27T04:46:37Z")
I can’t follow your reasoning. There seems no evidence that Kempers’ grandparents ever abused him. There is no evidence that his mothers friend abused him.
He didn’t stop. He was fleeing the scene when news of the murders broke and he then rang police to say where he was. That is hardly stopping.
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### Author:  [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2012, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-serial-killers-ever-just-stop/620538/58 "2012-05-29T07:04:23Z")
> [@Cicero](#):
>
> I can’t follow your reasoning. There seems no evidence that Kempers’ grandparents ever abused him. There is no evidence that his mothers friend abused him.
>
> He didn’t stop. He was fleeing the scene when news of the murders broke and he then rang police to say where he was. That is hardly stopping.
I believe the idea that he stopped himself is that he called the police on himself.
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### Author:  [@Rampant\_Coypu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rampant_Coypu)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2012, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-serial-killers-ever-just-stop/620538/59 "2012-05-30T05:23:59Z")
Whether you believe the stories of Kemper’s abuse or not, you should surely recognize that Kemper turned himself in and has been a model prisoner.
I happen to believe Kemper’s stories. You cannot imagine the pain of social isolation. You cannot imagine the pain of never having a childhood friend. You cannot imagine the pain of not being able to go to a public restroom by yourself when you were thirteen at a museum and not being able to pee because you were so angry your dad was watching you. You cannot imagine that two hours later you really did need to pee and you were now at a restaurant, but dared not risk it. You can’t imagine how you had to train your bladder to stretch. You can’t imagine how you 16 yp brother had been locked at home, and would never dare excuse himself to use a public restroom. You can’t imagine the pain. You can’t imagine never riding your bike, you can’t imagine never liking a girl because you could never hope to see her. You can’t imagine not being allowed to walk to the mail box because (whatever) would get you. You can’t imagine the emptiness, the complete absence of your entire life before they somehow sent you to college at 18. You can’t imagine how hard college was, having only the emotional maturity and experiences of a 4 year old. You can’t imagine how hard it is to wall yourself off so you never have to go back home.
I am Kemper without the serial killer switch. He had it, I don’t. I am glad he turned himself in.
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### Author:  [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2012, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-serial-killers-ever-just-stop/620538/60 "2012-05-30T22:21:00Z")
> [@BigT](#):
>
> I believe the idea that he stopped himself is that he called the police on himself.
The fact that he’s 7 feet tall would make it pretty hard for him to evade police, I’d say. Turning himself in would just have been common sense, at that point.
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