# Do sexual preferences make one a bigot? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 12, 2021, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544 "2021-08-12T20:08:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2021, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/281 "2021-12-23T16:03:52Z")
No, “f_r_eely”. It’s an old jazz expression, then adopted by the 60s acidheads, and more recently by the kink community. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2021, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/282 "2021-12-23T18:05:55Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Murder and suicide are the harms _that result from_ what you were calling a completely harmless choice. As though sexual preferences were all masturbatory and didn’t impact society at all. That’s a strong overstatement, IMHO. Murder and suicide of people who are affected by prejudice about skin color in sexual relationships don’t directly “result from” such prejudices. They are influenced by such prejudices, sure, but it’s not as though the prejudice directly caused the murder or suicide. Yes, people should absolutely examine their sexual preferences to see in what ways they’re influenced by prejudice and bigotry (since pretty much every aspect of our lives in historically and persistently racist societies is influenced to some extent by prejudice and bigotry). No, that doesn’t mean that their sexual preferences are causing murder and suicide. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2021, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/283 "2021-12-23T20:06:20Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > it’s not as though the prejudice directly caused the murder or suicide. Depends on how direct your “directly” has to be. These all seemed pretty direct to me (and there are many, many stories like this): > **[Indian woman kills herself over 'dark complexion taunts'](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-50218947)** > > Indian police have registered a case against the woman's husband. > **[She’s fair. He’s dark. So Bareilly wife sets husband on fire](https://www.indiatoday.in/crime/story/dark-skin-husband-fire-1503896-2019-04-17)** > > In Uttar Pradesh’s Bareilly, a woman allegedly killed her husband by setting him on fire because of his dark complexion > **[Enraged over Her Dark Skin, Hyderabad Man Slits Wife's Throat, Then Attempts...](https://www.news18.com/news/india/enraged-over-her-dark-skin-hyderabad-man-slits-wifes-throat-then-attempts-to-kill-self-2800207.html)** > > The duo was reportedly happy initially, however, things turned sour between the couple shortly after. The accused reportedly assaulted the deceased over his displeasure with her dark-skinned complexion, which for him wasn’t “beautiful enough”, the... ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2021, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/284 "2021-12-23T20:33:47Z")
Taunting or murdering people for having dark skin is absolutely indefensibly cruel (and in the case of murder, criminal) behavior. But not feeling sexually attracted to people who have dark skin in no way requires either taunting or murdering them. Yes, discriminatory prejudice against people because of skin color influences both their perceived sexual attractiveness and their odds of being taunted or murdered for their skin color. But that’s not the same thing as the sexual preference causing the taunting or murdering. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2021, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/285 "2021-12-23T21:03:50Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > But not feeling sexually attracted to people who have dark skin in no way requires either taunting or murdering them. I didn’t say it _necessitated_ anything. But it is _a_ harm that comes from the supposedly harmless choice. > [@Kimstu](#): > > But that’s not the same thing as the sexual preference causing the taunting or murdering. If the sexual preference is outright stated as the motive (As it is. There’s not even any attempt to hide this or anything), it is a cause. Yes, it _causes_ the taunting and the murder. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2021, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/286 "2021-12-23T21:17:24Z")
Nah, I think that’s conflating the preference with the prejudice. People are taunting and killing the dark-skinned because of the societal prejudice that dark skin is objectively bad and ugly, not just that it doesn’t happen to be their personal preference for hotness. Yes, we’ve already agreed that the societal prejudice influences both the personal feelings of sexual attraction and the oppressive behavior. But that doesn’t mean that the personal feelings and the societal prejudice are interchangeable factors in the oppression. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2021, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/287 "2021-12-23T21:29:39Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > People are taunting and killing the dark-skinned because of the societal prejudice that dark skin is objectively bad and ugly, not just that it doesn’t happen to be their personal preference for hotness. The ones I cited are all _specifically_ intimate partner cases, not general social bullying. “Personal preferences for hotness” are very much the case. I’m not denying the larger societal prejudices as causal. But in these types of cases, they _cause_ personal preferences, and those directly _cause_ suicide and murder. The personal preferences are the proximate causes. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2021, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/288 "2021-12-23T21:35:53Z")
Hmm, I don’t seem to be expressing this very well. The point is that the oppressors here consider it justifiable (at least temporarily) for the dark-skinned person to be taunted and/or killed. That’s societal bigotry at work. That’s not just “I don’t happen to find this attractive”. That’s “Because you fall short of this objective standard for how you’re supposed to look, you don’t deserve to be treated as a person”. Yes, as I’ve said multiple times, the societal prejudice of the latter attitude can also be a significant factor in the former attitude. But that doesn’t make them interchangeable. Not sure I can put it any more clearly than that. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2021, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/289 "2021-12-23T21:41:20Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > The point is that the oppressors here consider it justifiable (at least temporarily) for the dark-skinned person to be taunted and/or killed. I don’t see how that cancels the personal nature of the actual preference. > [@Kimstu](#): > > that doesn’t make them interchangeable. I’m not saying they’re “interchangeable”. I’m just saying the personal part _exists_, that people aren’t committing these murders and taunts _just_ as societal actions but _also_ as personal, intimate-relationship ones. So the personal preference comes into it. I’m not saying it’s the _only_ component, but I am saying it’s a _significant_ one. And so the harm from the personal preference side of things is not “none”. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2021, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/290 "2021-12-23T21:59:13Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Suppose I’m not sexually attracted to people of a protected class Suppose you ARE sexually attracted to someone of a protected class without knowing they are, do you stop being sexually attracted to them when you find out? ---
**Author:** ![Gozu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gozu/32/6615_2.png) [@Gozu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gozu)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2021, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/291 "2021-12-24T03:51:37Z")
It’s not bigoted to like specific body shapes or tones, different busts, derrieres, arms, legs, heights and thicknesses. Those are all universal traits. It may be problematic to prefer non-universal traits, like skin, hair or eye color, facial features or hair type because people treat less attractive people (in their eyes) worse. It’s a sad fact. I wouldn’t call it bigoted though. everybody’s preferences are truly random, then no harm is done. If large amounts of people decide to agree, specifically that brown eyes and blonde hair are ugly, nothing good can come of that. ---
**Author:** ![lum\_s\_husband](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lum_s_husband/32/3698_2.png) [@lum\_s\_husband](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lum_s_husband)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2021, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/292 "2021-12-24T12:59:57Z")
TIL kink-shaming is an essential part of morality, but the line is not where I might expect. DOM/sub, erotic trampling, _vore_: normal parts of diverse human sexuality Aesthetic preferences that might line up with current concepts of race: vile racism that justifies completely reordering society to stamp out ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2021, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/293 "2021-12-25T13:03:58Z")
Woah there with the generalization - for example, I think racist preferences should be eradicated (but non-racist ones that happen to appear identical are fine), but I _also_ think vore is _not_ normal or healthy and needs therapy. And IME about 70% of dom/sub relationships are also unhealthy ones based on exploitation and misogyny. I have no real opinion on erotic trampling. Seems at the non-misogynistic side of BDSM from what I’ve heard, but it’s outside my circles of experience, unlike the rest. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2021, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/294 "2021-12-28T22:55:31Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Suppose you ARE sexually attracted to someone of a protected class without knowing they are, do you stop being sexually attracted to them when you find out? Yes. Maybe my date reveals that she has male genitals. I would probably cut off the romantic relationship then and there. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2021, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/295 "2021-12-28T22:57:13Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Yes. > > Maybe my date reveals that she has male genitals. I would probably cut off the romantic relationship then and there. > > ~Max Didn’t say anything about male genitals. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2021, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/296 "2021-12-28T22:58:36Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Didn’t say anything about male genitals. You didn’t specify the protected class, so I picked sex. You can name a protected class and I’ll tell you whether I would stop being sexually attracted. But I think sex is the only one for me. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2021, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/297 "2021-12-28T23:01:26Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > You didn’t specify the protected class, so I picked sex. You can name a protected class and I’ll tell you whether I would stop being sexually attracted. But I think sex is the only one for me. > > ~Max Sorry, I guess that wasn’t clear enough. Let’s say you are attracted to someone who you later find out is a post op transexual of your preferred gender, do you stop being attracted to them simply because of that? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2021, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/298 "2021-12-28T23:13:17Z")
I could not say, because I don’t know how my body would react to post op genitalia. If we’d already had sex without this being disclosed, obviously my body would be fine with it. But I would feel deceived and could not say whether I’d still be attracted to this particular woman. I also hope to procreate at some point, so even if I was still sexually attracted, it’s not certain the relationship would continue. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2021, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/299 "2021-12-29T16:03:23Z")
Seems like a reasonable response to me, Max. ---
**Author:** ![themapleleaf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/themapleleaf/32/14349_2.png) [@themapleleaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/themapleleaf)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2021, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/300 "2021-12-29T23:36:29Z")
No. No one owes you a relationship and no one is bound to find you attractive. You have every right to find me physically repulsive and I have every right to find you physically repulsive. As long as we don’t call each other ugly or put each other down or otherwise disrespect each other because of it. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Everyone has their “type”. I’m a white, cisgender male. Being transsexual would be a dealbreaker for me, and as for dating different races, while I would “never say never”, in practice I would probably date only women who are white, or at most biracial (maybe I would make an exception for an indigenous North American, I.E. an Indian/Inuit/Alaskan Native). This is not because I have anything against people of color, only because white women have the features that I find attractive. There are for example Black and Asian women that on a certain level I would say are attractive, but when all comes together they are not my type. It’s no different than having a physical feature as a deal breaker (for example, I wouldn’t date a woman with a big aquiline nose or one who is very skinny. Does that make me a bigot? A woman is free to reject me due to my long hair or my beer belly or whatever). There’s this great comedy from the 80s, “The Gods Must Be Crazy”, where an African Bushman sees a conventionally attractive white woman and the narrator states that that day, he spotted the ugliest woman he had ever seen. Let’s say for the sake of argument that there was some black person who thought that all of us whites, to a person, are uglier than a mortal sin, and would never consider dating one of us. Suppose this person saw **me** and in their mind, I didn’t even give off the impression of being fully human, but rather made them envision some kind of troll or goblin. As long as their revulsion towards all members of my race was limited to aesthetics and did not result in any bigotted behavior towards us, **I couldn’t care less**. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544.md?page=16)