# Do sexual preferences make one a bigot? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 12, 2021, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544 "2021-08-12T20:08:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/301 "2021-12-30T15:33:00Z")
So 50% non-white is the highest you’ll go? Do you require a hypothetical potential date to present their 23 and me ancestry chart to make sure? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/302 "2021-12-30T16:03:41Z")
I haven’t read the entire thread, so I don’t know whether this question has come up: Would you prefer a woman with a penis or a man with a vagina? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/303 "2021-12-30T21:28:06Z")
> [@themapleleaf](#): > > only because white women have the features that I find attractive. There are _definitely_ Black and/or Asian women who have _whatever_ set of physical features you find attractive in White women, whether that’s light hair, blue eyes, pale skin, whatever combo you like… unless the “features” are “is not Black or Asian”, there will be Black and Asian women who have them. ---
**Author:** ![themapleleaf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/themapleleaf/32/14349_2.png) [@themapleleaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/themapleleaf)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/304 "2021-12-30T22:48:37Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > So 50% non-white is the highest you’ll go? Do you require a hypothetical potential date to present their 23 and me ancestry chart to make sure? No. I only stated what was likely in actual practice. As I wrote, “never say never”. I wouldn’t reject anyone _a priori_ because of their racial makeup. I was only stating who I would be likely to be attracted to based on prior experience. > [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@themapleleaf](#): > > > > only because white women have the features that I find attractive. > > There are _definitely_ Black and/or Asian women who have _whatever_ set of physical features you find attractive in White women, whether that’s light hair, blue eyes, pale skin, whatever combo you like… > unless the “features” are “is not Black or Asian”, there will be Black and Asian women who have them. I believe you, and again like I said, I would “never say never”, but I suspect these are few and far between. (BTW, when I mentioned whites above, I meant that in a broad sense, to include for example Latinas or Persian women). ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/305 "2021-12-30T22:52:13Z")
> [@themapleleaf](#): > > Latinas Of course not Black ones though. ---
**Author:** ![themapleleaf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/themapleleaf/32/14349_2.png) [@themapleleaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/themapleleaf)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/306 "2021-12-30T23:04:47Z")
Well, if they _look_ black… ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2021, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/307 "2021-12-31T01:31:04Z")
Have you considered the possibility that you may have unconsciously internalized some of the racial biases, appearance-based and otherwise, that exist in broader society and serve the cause of subtly reinforcing superiority and inferiority? ---
**Author:** ![themapleleaf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/themapleleaf/32/14349_2.png) [@themapleleaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/themapleleaf)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2021, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/308 "2021-12-31T08:19:41Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Have you considered the possibility that you may have unconsciously internalized some of the racial biases, appearance-based and otherwise, that exist in broader society and serve the cause of subtly reinforcing superiority and inferiority? I seriously doubt it. I treat all people equally, regardless of their prior race, and am happy to have friends of color and to see people of color succeed. For example, I think it’s way cool that the USA has had a biracial president as well as that the current Vice President is both a person of color and a woman. We are talking about pure aesthetics in the circumscribed context of what I find attractive in a partner. I am a highly visual person. I’m also a highly detail-oriented person. It’s the little things that tend to matter individually to me more than the whole. My idea of aesthetic and physical attractivity may have been influenced by being white myself and by being around whites/white media, but it’s formed and not likely to change. Like I already said, I am not _a priori_ refusing to date any race. It’s always a hypothetical; I’m just saying that in practice, it’s mostly white (or white-looking) women that possess the features that I find attractive. Like I said, I would also not feel in the least bit discriminated or insulted if a person of color thought that I, and all the other white people in the world, were ugly and reminded them more of morlocks than of humans. Everyone can have a certain aesthetic standard and this in and of itself has no bearing on how you see a race as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2021, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/309 "2021-12-31T18:11:51Z")
> [@Gozu](#): > > everybody’s preferences are truly random Are they random? This is a general question. I assume studies have been made about what contributes to preferences. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2021, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/310 "2021-12-31T20:59:56Z")
> [@themapleleaf](#): > > Like I said, I would also not feel in the least bit discriminated or insulted if a person of color thought that I, and all the other white people in the world, were ugly and reminded them more of morlocks than of humans. Except in the real world, and not fiction, that’s not actually how colourism works. Whites see white features as ideal. PoC _also_ see them that way - that’s why hair straighteners and skin lighteners are a thing. > [@themapleleaf](#): > > Everyone can have a certain aesthetic standard and this in and of itself has no bearing on how you see a race as a whole. I very much doubt that. Especially when it’s a shared cultural aesthetic and not an individual one. Colourism is a real thing, and it _does_ have a bearing on how races are seen. There is little “in and of itself” independent of that. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/311 "2022-01-03T15:33:27Z")
nm ~Max ---
**Author:** ![themapleleaf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/themapleleaf/32/14349_2.png) [@themapleleaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/themapleleaf)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/312 "2022-01-03T15:57:42Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@themapleleaf](#): > > > > Like I said, I would also not feel in the least bit discriminated or insulted if a person of color thought that I, and all the other white people in the world, were ugly and reminded them more of morlocks than of humans. > > Except in the real world, and not fiction, that’s not actually how colourism works. > > Whites see white features as ideal. PoC _also_ see them that way - that’s why hair straighteners and skin lighteners are a thing. > > > [@themapleleaf](#): > > > > Everyone can have a certain aesthetic standard and this in and of itself has no bearing on how you see a race as a whole. > > I very much doubt that. Especially when it’s a shared cultural aesthetic and not an individual one. Colourism is a real thing, and it _does_ have a bearing on how races are seen. There is little “in and of itself” independent of that. OK, maybe, but again speaking only for myself, I am no fan of the things you mention (hair straighteners and skin lighteners.) I am very much in favor of embracing one’s racial features and things like the “natural hair movement” among Black women. Your colourism may well be a real thing, but you shouldn’t assume that aesthetic preferences can’t be divorced from substantial racial prejudices. I still maintain that _merely_ not finding a person with certain racial features as attractive as someone with other racial features doesn’t mean that that person is a bigot or that their aesthetic preferences _must_ be colored by societal racial prejudices. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/313 "2022-01-03T16:16:12Z")
> [@themapleleaf](#): > > you shouldn’t assume that aesthetic preferences can’t be divorced from substantial racial prejudices If you’ve read all my posts in this thread, you wouldn’t make such an ignorant post - I’ve very clearly said that aesthetic preferences can be so divorced. I even gave my own preferences as an example. But they’re usually not. > [@themapleleaf](#): > > I still maintain that _merely_ not finding a person with certain racial features as attractive as someone with other racial features doesn’t mean that that person is a bigot or that their aesthetic preferences _must_ be colored by societal racial prejudices. …but it’s still a safe way to bet. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/314 "2022-01-03T19:14:35Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Whites see white features as ideal. PoC _also_ see them that way This may be disproportionately true, but, of course, it is not true of all people. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/315 "2022-01-03T20:29:20Z")
I suppose some questions do not yield to too much thinking about them. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/316 "2022-01-03T21:32:01Z")
See post above yours. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/317 "2022-01-03T22:07:32Z")
Sure. But when this was posted: > [@themapleleaf](#): > > Like I said, I would also not feel in the least bit discriminated or insulted if a person of color thought that I, and all the other white people in the world, were ugly and reminded them more of morlocks than of humans. Your response was dismissive. But in fact, while colourism might be more likely to be one sided, @themapleleaf is stating a scenario that DOES happen. And they are quite right; they have no right to be offended by someone finding white features unattractive or not wanting to date white people. I have no right to take issue with anyone being sexually unattracted to me for any reason whatsoever. No one does. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/318 "2022-01-03T22:59:56Z")
Right, you’re 100% free to write “No Jews” or “No Blacks” on your dating profile, but don’t act all shocked that people suspect that you’re a racist shit. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/319 "2022-01-03T23:57:51Z")
I said I wasn’t going to, but screw it. I think I can direct this reply to @RickJay as well. > [@themapleleaf](#): > > Like I said, I would also not feel in the least bit discriminated or insulted if a person of color **thought** that I, and all the other white people in the world, were ugly and reminded them more of morlocks than of humans. Thoughts lead to actions, and where do you draw the line? The person tells you you are ugly to your face. You ask why, they say it’s because of your skin color. Is that bigotry? Suppose that person doesn’t want to go on a date with you because of the color of your skin is unattractive to them. Is that bigotry? Suppose that person doesn’t want to hug you at your mother’s funeral because deep down, they think your skin color looks ugly. Is that bigotry? You’re chatting with friends and this person comes up to invite people to her party. “Oh, but not you, **themapeleaf**. No whites allowed.” You ask why not, she replies that she doesn’t think people with light skin are attractive and only wants attractive people at her party. Is that bigotry? This person works as a casting director at a local playhouse or something. It is literally her job to determine who is and is not attractive enough for a role (assume the source material does not specify skin color or race). She refuses to hire you because all other things equal you have light skin and she thinks light skin is inherently unattractive. Is that bigotry? Alternately she chooses another equally qualified applicant for the job because they are friends with good chemistry. But they became friends at that party you were expressly disinvited from due to your skin color\*. Is that bigotry? You are accused of a crime, and there is some evidence against you. It’s a real toss up. This lady is on the jury who ultimately decides you are guilty because, unconsciously, she is sympathetic with attractive people. And she thinks your skin color is unattractive. Is that bigoted? &etc. ~Max \* I think this is even more prevalent for women in business who run into a “good ol’ boys club”, who aren’t invited due to their sex, and thus don’t establish those close friendships ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2022, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/320 "2022-01-04T06:49:32Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Thoughts lead to actions, and where do you draw the line? > > The person tells you you are ugly to your face. That’s a crude and horrible thing to do no matter the reason. > [@Max\_S](#): > > Suppose that person doesn’t want to go on a date with you because of the color of your skin is unattractive to them. Is that bigotry? Depends what you mean by bigotry. Whatever your definition, it is absolutely their right to do that, full stop. Your first question was “where do you draw the line” and that’s a very easy line to define; you define the line as being **a person’s sexual autonomy.** Everything on their side is their decision to make. As long as they are not violating another person’s sexual autonomy - rape, pedophilia, etc. - they may choose who they want to sleep with, or choose to sleep with no one. Their reasons are their own. As to inviting a person to a party or not, or choosing people to hire into jobs, or making decisions as a jury member, that has nothing to do with sexual preference and a person’s sexual autonomy. Racism in those contexts is morally repugnant and, in two of those cases, usually illegal or unethical. The thread is about sexual preference, not employment law. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544.md?page=17)