# Do sexual preferences make one a bigot? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 12, 2021, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544 "2021-08-12T20:08:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/161 "2021-08-19T02:05:29Z")
Typo. I’m an unusual angle using my computer (as I’m trying out a new computer chair), and I didn’t notice. Since “meal” is also a word, I didn’t have the underline to help me notice. That said, autocorrect has the same problem. I wish that autocorrect would underline or somehow indicate words that it changed, as then it would draw my eye to make sure the correction was correct. For some reason, most keyboard software seems to assume you can notice everything while you go. This is untrue if you type fast. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/162 "2021-08-19T02:11:16Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > We have no idea what Venus figurines were really. It’s all speculation. This is news to me, I had always assumed they had a known purpose as sexualized idols of fertility. My knowledge proves deficient, thus I yield. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/163 "2021-08-19T02:18:07Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I don’t think having a sexual attractiveness “type” is bigotry, but I _do_ think saying “I only date White women (or Asian/Black/etc)” is. > > Because “White” is not a “type”, when it can encompass anyone from Rebel Wilson to Karen Gillan to Monica Bellucci to Björk to Taylor Swift. It’s not the same as “I have a thing for redheads” or “I like them blonde and busty” or other actual “types”. What about, “I have a thing for dark skin?” In the OP I tried to be specific that the preference was not quite for a _race_, but for a specific property such as _skin color_. The disparate impact is still there, and in other contexts I would not hesitate to say discrimination on the basis of skin color is racism. In retrospect I should have taken the same precaution with regards to gender/sex, by giving specific preferences instead of preferring “women” over “men”. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/164 "2021-08-19T03:25:19Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > And finally there needs to be a balancing of interests here - my interest in deciding who I’m attracted to, vs your interest in being attractive to me. And given that that the latter really doesn’t exist, it’s a no brainer how the balance tips. Here, I think you are mistaken. People are interested in being sexually attractive to (general) you, because sex sells. And so the ripple effects include for example who gets casted for a commercial or movie, or plot elements in a screenplay. Or more indirectly, the industry culture in fashion, advertising, modeling, etcetera. I hate to say it but even in politics and business, it can be a factor. ETA: Just snowballing. It’s 1950 and like 80% of the population do not think of dark skin as sexy. So to appeal to their target demographics, advertisers and directors do not hire many actors, actresses, or salespersons with dark skin. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/165 "2021-08-19T04:01:51Z")
Surely you know (or knew) young men who think visibly old age is a major turn-off? ~Max, twentysomething ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/166 "2021-08-19T06:30:35Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > What about, “I have a thing for dark skin?” Having a thing for Mindy Kaling and Lupita N’yongo and Thandiwe Newton just for their skin colour would . IMO, just be a fetish, but not a bigotry. Having a preference _specifically_ for _just_ lighter skin over darker skin _and nothing else_ can be bigoted, because of the social dimension of colourism. Sorry if that wasn’t clear in what I wrote. It’s a fairly common bigotry worldwide, too. But I could also see it _just_ being a fetish in some people. Depends on if they’re completely unbigoted along colour lines otherwise in their lives. So “not necessarily” would be my answer there. > [@Max\_S](#): > > In the OP I tried to be specific that the preference was not quite for a _race_ , but for a specific property such as _skin color_ . You were not specific (my emphasis): > [@Max\_S](#): > > This got me thinking. Suppose I’m not sexually attracted to **people of a protected class**. Skin colour is not a protected class. You went on to _mention_ dark skin, but since it followed that bit, it was just detail, to me. And I was addressing the whole conversation up to that point, anyway, not just the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/167 "2021-08-19T07:10:23Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Here, I think you are mistaken. People are interested in being sexually attractive to (general) you, because sex sells. I mean “interest” in the sense of “legitimate right”. Nobody has any right to be attractive to me. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/168 "2021-08-19T08:28:16Z")
Are you saying most guys will have sex with that 350lb woman? Unlikely but I live in SoCal and beauty standards are different here. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/169 "2021-08-19T15:28:29Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Skin colour is not a protected class. I believe it is, at least in the U.S. Civil Rights Act of 1964 Titles II & III: “_race, **color** , religion, or national origin_” Title VI: “_race, **color** , or national origin_” Title VII: “_race, **color** , religion, sex, and national origin_” ~Max ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/170 "2021-08-19T15:54:51Z")
Learn something new every day. I checked our South African Bill of Rights, and it’s there too. Thanks for the correction. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/171 "2021-08-19T16:18:00Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Having a preference _specifically_ for _just_ lighter skin over darker skin _and nothing else_ can be bigoted, because of the social dimension of colourism. Sorry if that wasn’t clear in what I wrote. It’s a fairly common bigotry worldwide, too. But I could also see it _just_ being a fetish in some people. A person of color asks a white person out on a date, and the white person says “I’m sorry, but I’m not attracted to people with your skin color.” Could you imagine…? Why isn’t that necessarily bigotry? - It is discrimination on the basis of skin color. The white person is not only distinguishing between white skin and colored skin, but treats people differently (is only willing to date people with white skin). - Presumably, the decision to discriminate on the basis of skin color is not up for discussion. - No individual fault of the person of color can justify this discrimination. ETA: I don’t think a white-skin-fetish makes it any less bigoted. A man who happens to be more comfortable around men than women would still be bigoted if he only hires men, even though his comfort level probably affects the ability to be productive with his team. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/172 "2021-08-19T16:33:28Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Why isn’t that necessarily bigotry? Because it could, theoretically, be pure aesthetics. > [@Max\_S](#): > > It is discrimination on the basis of skin color. It may only be discrimination in the non-prejudicial sense. _If_ it’s pure aesthetics, then it’s not unjust, which is a _necessary_ feature of bigotry. > [@Max\_S](#): > > Presumably, the decision to discriminate on the basis of skin color is not up for discussion. I don’t see the relevance of that. > [@Max\_S](#): > > No individual fault of the person of color can justify this discrimination. Same-same with non-redheads, or non-busty blondes, or non-twinks, or non-bears … etc, etc. It’s not _my_ fault that I don’t look like Chris Hemsworth, _but that’s OK_, because “fault” is a meaningless concept when talking about legitimate aesthetic preferences. People looking for a Chris Hemsworth type don’t have to justify not being attracted to me. I am not being prejudiced against. I do not have a fundamental right to others’ romantic attraction, that is being infringed against. > [@Max\_S](#): > > I don’t think a white-skin-fetish makes it any less bigoted. A man who happens to be more comfortable around men than women would still be bigoted if he only hires men, Romantic involvement is a different case from normal employment, or any other setting other than entertainment casting. Aesthetics does, and should be allowed to, play a role in the one, where it does not, and should not, in other spheres. Same for gender prejudices, or sexuality preferences, or religion preferences, or age preferences, absent a _legitimate_ reason. **Note** : I’m _not_ arguing that a preference against dark skin _isn’t_ bigotry. I believe in most any real-world instance, it very much is. I’m arguing that it is not _necessarily_ so. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/173 "2021-08-19T16:48:59Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@Max\_S](#): > > > > Presumably, the decision to discriminate on the basis of skin color is not up for discussion. > > I don’t see the relevance of that. The “obstinate” part of bigotry. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Romantic involvement is a different case from normal employment, or any other setting other than entertainment casting. Aesthetics does, and should be allowed to, play a role in the one, where it does not, and should not, in other spheres. Same for gender prejudices, or sexuality preferences, or religion preferences, or age preferences, absent a _legitimate_ reason. I think the critical question here is, why is aesthetic preferences a _legitimate_ reason to discriminate in romance, where a team leader’s being uncomfortable working with women is not? I think both the romantic and the team leader would say, “it’s not you, it’s me”. I think discrimination in both cases is _relevant_ to what they are doing. In the extreme, the white person may not be able to become sexually aroused at all, and the team leader may not be able to do his job because he is so uncomfortable around women. So it seems to me, either both are legitimate, or neither. I would go with neither: they’re both bigots. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/174 "2021-08-19T17:01:27Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > The “obstinate” part of bigotry. Obstinate is refusing to change an opinion despite attempts to do so. Preferring not to discuss pure aesthetic choices (this the hypothetical case I’m talking about) is not the same thing. > [@Max\_S](#): > > I think the critical question here is, why is aesthetic preferences a _legitimate_ reason to discriminate in romance, where a team leader’s being uncomfortable working with women is not? If you don’t understand why intimate partnership is a different sphere of engagement from work life, I can’t help you. > [@Max\_S](#): > > the team leader may not be able to do his job because he is so uncomfortable around women. Then he should cease being a team leader, not allowed to be a men-only team leader. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/175 "2021-08-19T19:53:18Z")
Work life and intimacy having different rules is good up until the point that intimate work is legitimate. It will be a thorny issue when prostitution is legal. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/176 "2021-08-19T19:58:36Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > It will be a thorny issue when prostitution is legal. Why? If you open a business that trades sex for money, you don’t get to put up a “whites only” sign no matter how much you love sexing up us white dudes. Just like with bakers, if you are incapable of serving everyone in the community equally, don’t go into the business. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/177 "2021-08-19T20:02:32Z")
Right it’s going to be thorny when legalized prostitution can’t have any exemptions such as sex, age, disability, so-called race etc. There will be a black market trade in sex that will develop at that point. ---
**Author:** ![Tatterdemalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@Tatterdemalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tatterdemalion)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/178 "2021-08-19T20:12:25Z")
There is an item I saw in the news recently that made me think of this thread. There is a stripper that is bringing a lawsuit against some clubs because they refused to let her work because they had too many black girls working that night. [From the Washington Post.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/19/houston-former-stripper-sues-strip-clubs-racial-discrimination/) On the one hand racial discrimination is bad, no arguing that. On the other hand, the club management wants to cater to the sexual preferences of their patrons. I am sympathetic to the stripper, but I suspect that the case will be hard to win. Are casting directors in movies allowed to specify the race of actors and actresses they hire for a role? The club management will probably a make similiar argument. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/179 "2021-08-19T22:18:13Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Why? If you open a business that trades sex for money, you don’t get to put up a “whites only” sign no matter how much you love sexing up us white dudes. Just like with bakers, if you are incapable of serving everyone in the community equally, don’t go into the business. Baking a cake for someone is absolutely not the same as having sex with them. If the government is ever in the position of telling someone they face legal consequences for not having sex with someone they don’t want to have sex with, we will have made a terrible error of some kind. ---
**Author:** ![Delayed\_Reflex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/delayed_reflex/32/3172_2.png) [@Delayed\_Reflex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delayed_Reflex)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544/180 "2021-08-19T22:40:49Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > For at least some people, to at least some extent, yes, that seems very likely. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that some people’s ignorance of their capacity for attraction to a different kind of physical anatomy than what they’re used to finding attractive is somewhat influenced by systemic societal bigotry. > > I’m not saying that if we lived in a perfectly transphobia-free world then everybody would automatically like all the different bits equally. Any more than if we lived in a perfectly homophobia-free world everybody would automatically be completely bisexual. Neither of those scenarios seems plausible. > > But judging from the number of cisgender people recounting that they never expected or wanted to get with a transgender person until one day they happened to meet The One and that turned out to be more important than genitalia… Yeah, I would be very surprised if systemic societal bigotry turned out to have absolutely zero role in absolutely everybody’s responses to genitalia. Indeed - [the number of people who identify as LGBT in the US has risen significantly in the past decade](https://news.gallup.com/poll/329708/lgbt-identification-rises-latest-estimate.aspx), so unless people think that there are reasons why more people are becoming “innately” LGBT, the more plausible reason is that there are more people comfortable to express their identity as LGBT / fewer people repressing it / more people open to exploring something that they might not have otherwise. I have no idea what % of people might be bisexual, or willing to date trans people, if there was zero stigma against it, but it would certainly be higher than it is now. > [@Slash1972](#): > > To be honest, no. I’m a guy, and I’ve never known a guy to turn down sex regardless of what they said previously. The only disqualifying factor was anatomy. Gender never came up at all. Because you don’t have sex with gender. I’m not quite following you - are you saying that pretty much every guy you’ve met would have sex with literally anyone who has a vagina? If so, I don’t believe you. Are you saying that any guy you know would never turn down sex with a 400lb woman or man (depending what they are into), or a transgendered person with the right anatomy? Would every guy you’ve met would use a glory hole if the opportunity presented itself, and none of them would care who was on the other side? Because if anatomy is the only factor it seems like that would be the case. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-sexual-preferences-make-one-a-bigot/948544.md?page=10)