Do sociopaths/psychopaths have a political orientation?

[Ellecram]

Posted in wrong thread - whoops!

[Bricker]

@etasyde

If only it were. Most conservatives swear by Ayn Rand, who saw selfish behavior as “the highest moral imperative.” Randian conservatism is pretty gross stuff, and it’s rampant. She’s quoted enough in congress so as to defeat any argument that “only hipster kids recite rand.”

Cite?

[Ellecram]

Economic benefits from food stamp program cites:

The Economic Case for Food Stamps

USDA ERS - Economic Linkages

[Bricker]

@Ellecram

Posted in wrong thread - whoops!

A cite should not simply be a link. It’s unclear to me, for example, in your first cite which portion of the quoted test you endorse. Is it the every dollar spent pays for itself line in the header? Because that’s false – what about dollars wasted to fraud and abuse?

Please cite the portion of text you believe supports the claim and the link to that text (or a bibliograph-type entry for a non-online resource).

[Velocity]

@Johnny_L.A

Liberals understand that benefits must be paid for, and they spell out the means of such payment.

Actually…

[QuickSilver]

@Bricker

A cite should not simply be a link. It’s unclear to me, for example, in your first cite which portion of the quoted test you endorse. Is it the every dollar spent pays for itself line in the header? Because that’s false – what about dollars wasted to fraud and abuse?

Please cite the portion of text you believe supports the claim and the link to that text (or a bibliograph-type entry for a non-online resource).

Here are some direct quotes from Paul Ryan (link to article and audio from The Atlas Society)

Ryan was proud to be a total Ayn Rand fanboy:

“I just want to speak to you a little bit about Ayn Rand and what she meant to me in my life and [in] the fight we’re engaged here in Congress. I grew up on Ayn Rand, that’s what I tell people.”

“I grew up reading Ayn Rand and it taught me quite a bit about who I am and what my value systems are, and what my beliefs are.”

“It’s inspired me so much that it’s required reading in my office for all my interns and my staff. We start with Atlas Shrugged. People tell me I need to start with The Fountainhead then go to Atlas Shrugged [laughter]. There’s a big debate about that. We go to Fountainhead, but then we move on, and we require Mises and Hayek as well.”

“But the reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand.”

“And when you look at the twentieth-century experiment with collectivism—that Ayn Rand, more than anybody else, did such a good job of articulating the pitfalls of statism and collectivism—you can’t find another thinker or writer who did a better job of describing and laying out the moral case for capitalism than Ayn Rand.”

“It’s so important that we go back to our roots to look at Ayn Rand’s vision, her writings, to see what our girding, under-grounding [sic] principles are.”

“Because there is no better place to find the moral case for capitalism and individualism than through Ayn Rand’s writings and works.”

[octopus]

@IvoryTowerDenizen

Yeah- my liberal parents who were middle class their whole life wanted to give so that other people could have a safety net. Most liberals end up being the ones who give, not take.

Nothing is stopping liberals, or anyone for that matter, from giving what they want. But that’s not what modern liberalism is really about.

@protoboard

Indeed. I’m pretty sure a lot of people of welfare are conservative Republicans too (though why they are baffles me).

Perhaps because life and politics is more complex than a single dimensional, extraordinarily simplified model of American political party description?

@protoboard

Welfare isn’t a drain on the economy though. Food stamps for example create more wealth than they cost to distribute. Ultimately the taxpayers are getting back what they pay. It would be more expensive for people on welfare to be homeless or in prison than it is to give them welfare.

That seems like a false binary. Also seems like a poor definition of wealth.

Another point - welfare isn’t just food stamps and disability payments. Public school is welfare. Public roads are welfare. Are you in favor of there only being private schools and turnpikes?

All public expenditures are welfare now? Where’s Humpty Dumpty when you need him.

Besides, most conservatives are perfectly fine with spending taxpayer money on war, but balk at the idea of it being used to help people.

That seems like a simplistic misrepresentation of what so-called conservatives are for.

@Johnny_L.A

Conservatives are more selfish than Liberals. Conservatives care only for their own gain, and have no interest in ‘promoting the general welfare’ of citizens. They want all of the benefits of living in a society, but squeal like stuck pigs when they’re asked to pay for those benefits. Liberals understand that benefits must be paid for, and they spell out the means of such payment. Conservatives want to steal from the poor and give the money to the rich.

Steal from the poor? What are they stealing from the poor.

General welfare? Do you not understand how capitalism and trade raise living conditions for most everyone?

@Thing_Fish

Politics is ultimately about trying to make society better, which sociopaths couldn’t care less about. So I doubt a sociopath would ever really be a committed adherent of any political ideology. Of course, if they see a chance to gain power for themselves personally, they might well become involved in politics, but then they would just adopt whatever “principles” seemed most advantageous for them.

Politics is a mechanism to obtain power.

[ExTank]

@Johnny_L.A

Conservatives are more selfish than Liberals. Conservatives care only for their own gain, and have no interest in ‘promoting the general welfare’ of citizens. They want all of the benefits of living in a society, but squeal like stuck pigs when they’re asked to pay for those benefits. Liberals understand that benefits must be paid for, and they spell out the means of such payment.

Well, first of all, you’re responding to a somewhat flippant, tongue-in-cheek jab at proto’s rather demeaning and insulting broad-brush GQ thread, before it got moved to GD.

In a more serious vein: you’re talking capital-L Libertarians. Granted, some small-case-l libertarian principles are appealing to fiscally minded, small-government (or perhaps it’d be better to say “more efficient/less wasteful government”) conservatives, so there some natural overlap there, but it’s hardly fair (or even correct) to broad-brush all conservatives as not being willing to pay for public works like roads, schools, sewage/water treatment plants, clean air/water programs, etc. These all have a demonstrated and proven public health benefit to everyone in society, rich-man/poor-man/and-everyone-in-between.

@Johnny_L.A

Conservatives want to steal from the poor and give the money to the rich.

If you’re talking NeoCons or Big-Business Country-Club conservatives, I’d think a more accurate statement would be that they want to “steal” from the middle-class, in the form of wage freezes or cuts, job cuts/downsizing, and off-shoring as much as possible to avoid American corporate taxes; the poor have so little to steal that it’s hardly worth the effort.

[Salvor]

@Riemann

I think this kind of mapping of psychopaths onto some part of the political spectrum is always going to be highly misleading. Psychopaths brains function in a qualitatively different way, so they do not map to any part of the spectrum of non-psychopathic human behavior.

You’re arguing that psychopaths are selfish (agreed); and that conservatives care about “self-interest”, so psychopaths are probably conservatives. But (and I say this as a liberal) that’s a gross misrepresentation of what conservatism is about. Intentionally or not, you’re tarring conservatives — if all psychopaths are Republicans, what does that tell us about Republicans? [Answer: nothing at all].

I’ll give you that for conservatism. But objectivism and extreme libertarianism? There is something off about those people.